Re: Pro or Post turbo Pyro

I can sum up the post turbo location in two very accurate words.

Totally Worthless

Yes it reads lower. How much lower??? That depends, which is why it's a totally worthless location. Could be off by 1 degree, 0 degrees, actually HOTTER, or low by 700 degrees or MORE.

Big rig guys will put it there because of things like steel pistons and engine's that are just generally indestructable.

We want to know egt so that we can have a guidline for when our aluminum pistons are getting buttery. You're not going to hose the turbo before the aluminum pistons. And if it's still seems fine and someone did hose a turbo, they would likely be surprised to see their piston tops.

If you want to watch out for the engine, put the probe pre-turbo (how much does an engine cost?). If you want to watch out for the turbo, put the probe post-turbo (how much does a turbo cost?)

Move it or you wasted your money on a gauge. Not just my opinion either, lol.

 

Re: Pro or Post turbo Pyro

I can sum up the post turbo location in two very accurate words.

Totally Worthless

Yes it reads lower. How much lower??? That depends, which is why it's a totally worthless location. Could be off by 1 degree, 0 degrees, actually HOTTER, or low by 700 degrees or MORE.

Big rig guys will put it there because of things like steel pistons and engine's that are just generally indestructable.

We want to know egt so that we can have a guidline for when our aluminum pistons are getting buttery. You're not going to hose the turbo before the aluminum pistons. And if it's still seems fine and someone did hose a turbo, they would likely be surprised to see their piston tops.

If you want to watch out for the engine, put the probe pre-turbo (how much does an engine cost?). If you want to watch out for the turbo, put the probe post-turbo (how much does a turbo cost?)

Move it or you wasted your money on a gauge. Not just my opinion either, lol.

^^^^^YEP ^^^^^

 

Re: Pro or Post turbo Pyro

I agree with charles put it in the manifold

 

Re: Pro or Post turbo Pyro

Here is what a post turbo pyro and a 1100 red line, as banks preachs, does to a piston... This is #7 out of my 99... pulling a grade in Montana with about 11k in tow... She kept on until Bozman...


I run both a left and right manifold pyros, cruising down the road, they can vari about 50-100 but at WOT they are neck and neck...

 

Re: Pro or Post turbo Pyro

Here is what a post turbo pyro and a 1100 red line, as banks preachs, does to a piston...

If you want to know what Banks really says, read this http://www.bankspower.com/Tech_whyegt.cfm.

 

Re: Pro or Post turbo Pyro

When I first bought my pyro I was told put it in the manifold. But my dad being a heavy duty diesel mechanic said whats the point of only measuring off one bank. He said the best way is for every cylinder. Obviously to exspensive. So he said mount it in the downpipe

Yes it is more expensive to monitor both banks of injectors with dual sets of gauges. However, if one bank is really that much cooler or hotter than the other, then you'll notice the problem immediately on these trucks. So monitoring temps on one side is perfectly fine and will provide you with all the info you need.

 

Re: Pro or Post turbo Pyro

Banks is a F*CK..............Ok well I think when I do the exhaust I will buy one more and setup in both manifolds........thanks guys
Whats the max temp I would wanna see out of the manifolds

 

Re: Pro or Post turbo Pyro

Strokin, do you think the wheel could have actually contacted the housing? that is the major diameter of that wheel so that's the point where it would have hit if it was taking a dump. My guess is that if you were seeing some pretty serious temperatures it's also highly likely that you were also spinning the hell out of it too.

And the pistons melt first. That's just all there is to it.

If not, then I'm sure you wouldn't mind running your truck hot enough to kill the turbo because the pistons will still be fine right? But most likely you'll be blowing white smoke on the side of the road with a torched piston and a turbocharger that's still yawning.

 

Re: Pro or Post turbo Pyro

And the pistons melt first. That's just all there is to it.

There is a lot more to it than that. That Banks tech article talks a little about it.

 

Re: Pro or Post turbo Pyro

Not really. It's just that simple.

 

Re: Pro or Post turbo Pyro

Not really. It's just that simple.

Maybe in your world but not in mine. I've seen turbos with the fins slung off them with no damage to the pistons, the one above may be an example of that.

 

Re: Pro or Post turbo Pyro

Banks is a tool
and 444 your :supergay: Quit kissing banks A$$

 

Re: Pro or Post turbo Pyro

That was my point, slung off, not melted off.

 

Re: Pro or Post turbo Pyro

444-4D = Banks:nutswinger:
opcorn:opcorn:

 

Re: Pro or Post turbo Pyro

If you want to put the probe post-turbo fine. I would just suggest not even buying the gauge and instead putting the money into the mahle piston fund because it would be better spent.

 

Re: Pro or Post turbo Pyro

I don't want to put it post turbo. I don't think that is the best place for most applications, Banks doesn't either. There are some applications where I think it is just as good. You sling the turbine fins off because they are hot and lose some of their stiffness. The faster the turbo is spinning the more likely this is to happen. Hence'"there is more to it than that". As much as you appear to know about turbos, I'm surprised you disagree with that.

 

Re: Pro or Post turbo Pyro

And charles....Pistons in the big rigs aren't steel....They're Aluminum as well.

 

Re: Pro or Post turbo Pyro

And charles....Pistons in the big rigs aren't steel....They're Aluminum as well.

The tops of them are steel. They may not all be steel but all the ones I can remember seeing for the last few years have been. But that's not the reason the TC is placed post turbo. The reason is because these engines run at or near maximum output most of the time. At maximum output the difference between pre and post is consistent and predictable enough to put it there. These engines are developed with a TC in every exhaust port.

 

Re: Pro or Post turbo Pyro

Whats the maximum Temp I should see out of the manifolds on the pyro ?
And can someone link me to the proper install into the manifold please.

 

Re: Pro or Post turbo Pyro

Whats the maximum Temp I should see out of the manifolds on the pyro ?
And can someone link me to the proper install into the manifold please.

this will show you where to place it o your truck

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/general/0667dp_aftermarket_diesel_engine_gauges/photo_09.html

now what size drill and tap you'll need that depends on the kit you get most are a 7/16 drill bit and 1/4 NPT(pipe thread) tap

now I know this is a duramax but it does show

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/chevy/0411dpm_compressed_air_power/photo_05.html

now when your tapping it you'll want to back it out DO NOT tap it all the way through because it won't seal right soo tap a little then back it out and put your coupling in checking it it should make 3 to 3 1/2 turns into the manifold hand tight only for right now

Remember to clean it just use compressed air

Exhaust manifold torque 45 ft-lb
the 2 bolts on the uppys 36 ft-lb
EGT 1,250 max recommended

 

Re: Pro or Post turbo Pyro

You sling the turbine fins off because they are hot and lose some of their stiffness.

Find one single instance of this ever happening. Just one. Please.

 

Re: Pro or Post turbo Pyro

Find one single instance of this ever happening. Just one. Please.

If you want to remain ignorant that's ok with me. If you want to see one, you find it. I've already seen one.

 

The torque readings listed for the manifold bolts and the up-pipes make me think someone is talking about pulling the manifold to install the pyro.

Just drill the hole, thread it and install the pyro and be on your way. Pulling the manifold could easily turn a 30min job into a multiple day-long deal with broken bolts and what all can happen when pulling a manifold that's been on there for a while.

There is no harm in drilling the hole and installing the probe. Anything in the manifold will blow right past the turbine wheel while it's cold and spinning nice a slow at startup the first time. Besides, drilling upward most all of the shavings will fall down in your face anyway.

I would never even remotely consider pulling the manifold to put in a probe. And I always do what I consider "right" when working on trucks. I pulled the entire engine back out to swap out front covers when I could have easily epoxied, the crack in it because that just didn't seem "right".

JMWO

 

The torque readings listed for the manifold bolts and the up-pipes make me think someone is talking about pulling the manifold to install the pyro.

Correct

Just drill the hole, thread it and install the pyro and be on your way. Pulling the manifold could easily turn a 30min job into a multiple day-long deal with broken bolts and what all can happen when pulling a manifold that's been on there for a while.

Use a rachet then an air rachet

There is no harm in drilling the hole and installing the probe. Anything in the manifold will blow right past the turbine wheel while it's cold and spinning nice a slow at startup the first time. Besides, drilling upward most all of the shavings will fall down in your face anyway.

One wrong chip of metal = one wrong turbo

 

I could easily see someone waisting many, many hours with broken, rusty manifold bolts and up-pipe bolts that are totally frozen into the manifold at the connection only to have fought through alllllll of that to do it "right" when at the end of the day the only thing they likely gained over simply drilling the hole and tapping it where it sits, is manifold and up-pipe leaks, plus a lot of busted knuckles and possible downtime.

But as stated. It's JMWO.

 

Like Charles said, lay on your back, drill that thing, and tap it on the truck.

I do suck on the hole a little with a shop vac for extra measure, but dont believe it is needed.

Dont use any cutting lube.

Install probe in center.

 

That's the way I will do it when I get gauges.

 

I have installed a bunch of gauges and we just allways drill, tap, and install no worries. I do have a tap socket and I do use alittle never seize on the tap just because. 7.3's are a snap 6 ohs can be a b!tch the angle is retarded I have a variety of drills and I cut a cobalt drill bit down for even easier use.

 

Ya I herd that its B***ch to get the manifolds off.....However I thought if I were to remove them not only is it added insurance because I'm to poor to buy a turbo right now. I thought I could get them ceramic coated.
Like my dad says...No one has enough money to do it right the first time, but they always have enough to do it twice.

 

Dude, taking the manifold off your truck is a bigger risk than just drilling the friggin thing.

If your Dad is telling you to do it right. You need to listen to the guys on here who combined have done it hundreds and thousands of times.

You tell me how a shaving from a drill bit is going to damage the turbine wheel of a turbo? It's not. If there is ANYTHING left in the manifold, it will blow through when the truck even thinks about cranking over, and starts spinning the turbo.

Taking off the manifold to install the probe is retarded, plain and simple.

 

Like Charles said, lay on your back

drill that thing

and tap it

:aiwebs_001:

I do suck on the hole a little

:supergay:

Dont use any ... lube

:badidea:

That's the way I will do it

:hehe:



You guys are gay. So so gay. :gayfight:

 

HAHAHAHAH........Pocket you are as cruel as they come........LOL

 

:stupid:

 

X2

 

Understanding what happens with the gases through a turbo charger may help some understand why you cannot use a post pyrometer with any reliability.

The short version: ... The temperature drop of the gases across a turbine depends on the load. The turbine exit temperature depends on the inlet temperature and load. Both are variables in our case. To use post temperatures we would need to calculate some load factor in.

Banks almost got it right, but no cigar.

http://www.bankspower.com/Tech_whyegt.cfm At high turbine speeds (under heavy load) the exhaust gases simply don’t have time to give up as much heat energy as they speed through the turbine.

I don't agree with this statement. Heat is given off in direct proportion to the expansion. With a pressure drop of say, 25 psi across the turbo the temperature drop will be the same regardless of time. It is all part of the Gas Laws.


This relationship between pressure and temperature was snipped out of some training material:

Heat is nothing more than the motion of molecules within a substance, or the kinetic energy of the molecules. Heat will only pass from hot to cold.

The pressure of a gas may be defined in terms of how hard it pushes against its container or other objects it touches. The temperature and pressure of a gas are related to one and other. If you increase the temperature, the pressure will also increase if the volume is kept constant. If you change the pressure of a gas, the temperature will change as well. One may look upon the compression of a gas much like the compression of a spring. It takes a certain amount of energy to compress the spring a given distance. This energy is stored in the spring. When the spring is allowed to expand, the energy used to compress it is then released. When a gas is compressed, the energy shows up as an increase in temperature and pressure. When the gas is allowed to expand, (releasing the spring), the reduction in pressure will result in an appropriate temperature drop. If some of the stored heat is allowed to escape while the gas is compressed, the temperature of the gas after expansion will be lower than it was prior to the gas being compressed. Why? Heat is energy, and if heat energy is lost, a lower temperature will result when pressures are allowed to return to their initial value.

They use a device called an Air Cycle Machine (ACM) in turbine aircraft to cool air for the cabin. Air conditioning if you will. They are a prime example of how running a compressed gas through a turbine will drop the temperature of the gas. The ACM is nothing more than a couple of turbines stacked together which drive a very small fan. The fan is like a couple of inches in diameter. Compressed bleed air is taken from the engines and ran through the ACM.. This bleed can be 500C in temperature entering, and drop to below freezing exiting the ACM. ACMs' are cool.

:blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:

 

Understanding what happens with the gases through a turbo charger may help some understand why you cannot use a post pyrometer with any reliability.

The short version: ... The temperature drop of the gases across a turbine depends on the load. The turbine exit temperature depends on the inlet temperature and load. Both are variables in our case. To use post temperatures we would need to calculate some load factor in.
:blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:

Exactly right. I've been running both now for over 6 years and at a high load and boost/acceleration I can easily see 400 to 450 deg difference between pre and post with the post always being lower. Under a load where I'm holding the pre at 1200 to 1250 that difference over several minutes will drop to the 200 or so range, but it takes a while and the temp rise pre is like twice or more than what is seen in the post turbo temp rise. I do use my post for shutdown since I have my DP wrapped for heat shielding issues and it now takes longer to cool the turbo down than when the DP wasn't wrapped.

Larry

 

Alright...Thanks guys