From what reliable HHO testing that I've seen posted (there's a lot of false claims and data thanks to scammers), running hydrogen can change detonation timing a bit on diesels. This of course all depends on the size of the engine, as well as the amount of hydrogen you are producing. The best systems still produce less than 2 liters of hydrogen per minute.

SAE testing shows at most a 2% increase in fuel mileage, but that's on smaller engines 2.0L and less. So the impact of hydrogen systems on larger engines, such as our 7.3L's, is going to be rather small in most cases. Still though is the detonation issue, as you seem to have run into.

 

nice filters/

 

Honestly, even if it didn't improve my mpg at all the complete reduction in smoke is a huge plus for me although I think the larger 15 plate systems now produce considerably more Hydrogen. While it's true that the amount of Hydrogen might not be enough to improve mpg on it's own, the fact that I am now burning all of my diesel fuel completely has to be worth an increase in mpg I would think as long as excessive advance was not counteracting all of your improvement.

It's tough for me to measure mpg because of my driving conditions: 1) always in heavy traffic 2) give it as much throttle as possible 3) add used motor oil to the tank when ever I can 4), haul loads w/ the truck 1-2x per week as my only usage.

I am taking a road trip this weekend so I'll measure it then for sure.

Also, I have an aquantaince that runs a piddly little Hydrogen generator on a very small 4 cylinder Ram truck and he sees a huge increase in mpg as long as he drives slow enough that he is running mostly on Hydrogen. He gains like 40% according to him.

Thanks on the filters BTW, that change made a huge difference.

 

Also, I have an aquantaince that runs a piddly little Hydrogen generator on a very small 4 cylinder Ram truck and he sees a huge increase in mpg as long as he drives slow enough that he is running mostly on Hydrogen. He gains like 40% according to him.

Be careful and take claims like that with a grain of salt, even from people you know.

For a 1.8L engine, it takes 1500 amps to generate enough hydrogen to improve fuel mileage by 40%. Most hydrogen generators run on 15-30 amp circuits. Obviously, it's far short of the power you need to get that much HHO.

The biggest beef I have with HHO is the scams running rampant. Erroneous mileage and power claims are all over the place. I've even seen HHO kits priced at over $7000, claiming a 100%+ gain in fuel mileage. IMO, if anyone wants to experiment with HHO, build a kit. Never purchase anything HHO related off the internet. The information is free, as electrolysis has been around and in use for decades.

Anyway, that's my rant. LOL

 

Be careful and take claims like that with a grain of salt, even from people you know.

No doubt about people exagerating mpg gains! I don't know much about current but I was under the impression that increasing plate count continued to increase Hydrogen production but makes no additional draws on the electrical system? Hence the new 15 plate systems.

I also found out that the solution you use makes a dramatic difference in the quantity of Hydrogen produced even pulling the same Amps.


Golfer, Thanks for chiming in. I was hoping you would have something to contribute on this subject. Last I heard you guys had a low performing Hydrogen production unit on a test truck and I thought you were saying you saw a 2 mpg increase on the shop truck commute? Did you find out as the excitement wore off that it wasn't quite true?

Did you guys ever try the Potassium Hydroxide in your solution (I know I was supposed to get you some and I never did)? Ever try the CP testing that you were looking at doing or in the end did you guys decide it wasn't worth the trouble due to a lack of mpg improvements?

Thanks.

 

HHO theory

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7405318183954535892&ei=VUasScyuAp7OqwKMueSUAw&q=perpetual+motion+machine&hl=en

 

I think a good set of nozzles, good programing and nothing but diesel fuel could easily handle all the power you probably produce at WOT right now, but without smoking a drop anywhere, and likely get better mileage than you're seeing now with the Hydrogen. Brian recently reported mileage in the 17mpg range. Does that compare favorably to what you're getting now? I don't know.

And I don't know anyone that has done cylinder pressure testing on a 7.3 running hydrogen injection.

 

No doubt about people exagerating mpg gains! I don't know much about current but I was under the impression that increasing plate count continued to increase Hydrogen production but makes no additional draws on the electrical system? Hence the new 15 plate systems.

With increased plates you will have slightly better electrolysis reactions. The down side is you run into new issues with the water boiling, which will severely reduce the amount of HHO produced. So you have to be careful with that.

I also found out that the solution you use makes a dramatic difference in the quantity of Hydrogen produced even pulling the same Amps.

Correct, there are several solutions that aid in electrolysis, but this has been around for decades too. Unfortunately, this is one of the places where scammers try to capitalize and claim that they have "secret formulas" that are better than the rest. Most solutions that you put in the water work about the same, with a few only marginally better than the rest. Baking soda works too.

Just remember that these systems are based on the principles of electrolysis, and that electrolysis is the most inefficient method of producing hydrogen. This is stuff they used to teach in high school chemistry.

 

You know its funny I crossed this thread tonight, I just put an HHO type system on my truck tonight. A few people I know along with myself have been working with this for quite sometime and have made significant progress with it. We have designed a totally different setup to create electrolosis, using something similar to pipes vs. plates. The cell itself is about 10" in height and 4" around or so. I routed mine into my intake as well.

Just remember that these systems are based on the principles of electrolysis, and that electrolysis is the most inefficient method of producing hydrogen. This is stuff they used to teach in high school chemistry.

Correct, unless you can control the amperage going to the unit creating electrolosis with something along the lines of a pulse wave. Say, jumping from 1 amp, to 6 amps thus saving power, producing more hydrogen, and being overall more efficiant.

We have created a flame off of a home brewed torch and tip (pipe, a torch tip, and backflash preventers) using the same cell I put into my truck. The highest temp. we could read the flame was just short of 1000*. A few of us are also working on putting together a furnace using complete hydrogen.

Tonight and last night I wired and plumbed in the hydrogen cell onto my truck, and an 03' Century Class Freightliner with a Detroid 60 series. Previously we had an earlier designed cell on that and it had cleaned the carbon buildup out of the engine and brought it up from about 7mpg to 9mpg. That cell had a short in the ground and was trashed, I rewired the truck and we put together a whole new cell design utalizing a 14" piece of 6" PVC. I'm waiting on the driver to take his route later this week and see what kind of a gain that will give.

I'll also post up my gains after I get them in the next few days. Along with a few pictures.


As far as all the BS scammers trying to sell their #### I completely agree its BS! That's why I say screw em' and I'm making my own and doing all my own testing and improving myself

 

So how long do you figure it is untill you have to pay road tax on it? Since brewing bio has been needed to be taxed for legality issues. Wonder how long it will be untill you are chased about this?

 

We have created a flame off of a home brewed torch and tip (pipe, a torch tip, and backflash preventers) using the same cell I put into my truck. The highest temp. we could read the flame was just short of 1000*.

I saw a clip on TV a few years back where someone did this exact same thing. He was also working on an HHO setup for his vehicles. Never heard about it again, so I'm not sure how far he got with it.

 

It's really amazing what can be done with it and has greatly impressed me. That's why im pursuing the progression of it to see where it can take me.

Personally I don't like Consumers Energy getting all my money to power my house, I'd like to unhook from them

 

Alright, just an update. As of this past saturday night (feb 28th I believe) I was getting an average of about 18MPG at 1800RPM's at 55MPH on about a 30 mile stretch.
Tonight, after having the Hydrogen hooked into my intake for about 4 days now I recorded about 24MPG on the same exact stretch of road, at 1800RPM's and 55MPH.

Also on the 03 Freightliner century with the 60 series Detroit (470HP factory rating coupled with a 10spd.) had a much larger cell design put on it. My driver has had it running on the truck while hes made his dedicated route from Clevland, OH to Chicago, IL. In Chicago (AKA Hell) he was getting an unbeleivable 10.5MPG at 55MPH. On the open road he had it as high as 12 but with a tail wind. The truck has averaged a solid 10-11MPG, vs. the usual 7MPG. Anyone whos driven a semi knows 7MPG is pretty good, especially with any load behind you.

Impressed is more than an understatement to me, I'm chittin bricks over how well its doing and I plan on sqeezing more out of it and improving the design.

 

Thanks for sharing those results. I'm very interested in doing this to my truck. I'm an electrical engineering major so I may be able to help you guys.

 

Thats a pretty impressive gain, on both vehicles.

 

Is there any way you could do some long term mileage tracking, both with and without hydrogen? Say 4-6 tanks with hydrogen, and 4-6 tanks without, repeatedly? Perhaps talk to Dave Whitmer and ask him how he tracks his fuel mileage and the data logs he keeps, then set up a tracking system similar to his.

The reason I ask is that I've never seen anyone do real world mileage tracking with HHO systems, and it would be good info to have for those who are interested in making their own kits. Most information you find on the internet right now is full of bogus scams and useless data. We could use some more reliable information.

 

I'm seeing good results as well but I wanted to get more data before I posted.

I also made another huge change at the same time (went back to single shots) so that is a big part of the equation as well.

I spend most of my time accelerating from light to light where the Hydrogen just seems to reduce smoke. But when I cruise down the highway I barely have to touch the throttle to maintain 60 mph. I think the % of Hydrogen is more effective in those situations.

Thanks for the update.

 

A square wave

 

Whose design did you deviate from? Are you doing any sort of pipe preparation?

 

pipe preparation? Elaborate for me please

 

it doesn't consume any water the only thing going into your engine is a gas (hydrogen). You only replace the water maybe every month or so obviously depending on how frequently you drive, due to corrosion and the amperage your running.

 

How large is your water container?

 

I would guess about 8" tall, and a 3" diameter

 

I dont think a gen that size will do anything for our trucks. What is the output of that unit? maybe 1/2L per minute? And is that going to feed 444 cubic inches? We need units that are going to generate at least 2L per minute if not a lot more. My gen is going to be a 12x12x12 inch cube with 3 sets of 10x10 inch 316 ss plates in a +N-N-N+ at first then I am going to change the configuration around a bit and see what produces the most HHO. I am estimating amperage at 40-50 amps and output of 3LMP. The wire is going to be some big 4gauge wired to an amp meter with a 50 amp fuse to start with and a manual switch rated for this load.

I will also use 3 bubblers to help scrub off any unwanted debris from the gen itself to make sure that only pure gas goes into the intake. But as of now I really dont have plans on running this util I get single shot injectors, but who knows. I might just do it and see what I can figure out. Most likely I will ask Lott for a tune that has a fair amout of timing pulled out and I might install a blue CPS to help out as well.

 

I drive about 300 miles per day 5 days per week. Would I need to change the water once a month, less than that, more than that?

 

It's hard to say, I would guess right around 3 maybe 4 weeks

 

An increase from 18 to 24 mpg sounds great. And I can do this for 4500-6000 miles on less than a pint of water. Water must be some powerful stuff. Maybe that's why, at my local convenience store, it costs 5 times as much as diesel fuel. But it's well worth it. I can save 62.5 gallons of diesel in just 3 weeks. At $1.80 per gallon that's $112.50. And I will only have to purchase one 99 cent bottle of water.

 

Yes, I already know I need more volume but with the cell I have now I gained right around a solid 4-5 mpg. I don't know my volume output at the moment we're working on measuring that.

I will add that at 40-50 amps its far from efficient with that power draw

 

4-5 is impressive with that size kit. Thats awesome. I am building for 50 amps but hope for far less. What arrangment are your plates in? I might start cutting my lexan tomorrow. Some how I was able to find 3 sheets of lexan at work near a dumpster that were 3ftx3ft. Talk about a score. If I can get the kit to generate efficiently, I will make a few of them.

 

We're using something completely different than plates

 

Wire coils or washers? Do tell...