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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Not looking to start a fight. Just looking for personal experience on these wheels in an obs tp38.
As indicated in one of my other threads, I need to replace my compressor wheel.
Truck right now is stock. I do foresee in the distant future upgrading my pump and injectors. But no time soon.
I do have a 1.0 housing on it already.
 

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My own truck (9) RiffRaff billet wheel, delete pedestal, delete exhaust outlet, 1.0 A/R turbine housing; 3" DP. PHP hydra. Consistantly pushing 20-22 psi. Peaks at 25.6psi. It spins up quick and starts digging in at 1400 rpm up. I get 20-22 mpg. At WOT, I can feel it at it's best at 22psi, which is about the same time mine shifts int the next gear. I'm sure, with a load, that would be a bit different... but a grade is not a load for it (empty). On the pass, my EGT's are about, 600-700*F... at about 70mph.

I haven't put a WW2 in mine, so I don't know how it compares in the same turbo.

I have put the Riifraff 66mm billet wheel (for the 38R) with a ported comp housing... and pulled it back out. I wasn't pushing enough fuel to spin it (yet)... but that will be a good turbo when I get the other injectors in.

WW2's are good wheels. I've helped friends put them in theirs. I didn't feel the same pull as mine, but they were in different setups. I think they could have been better if my friends went with different turbine housings. (Which you already have.)

Diiference in price between the 2 is about $50... but I think the RiffRaff was well worth that to me.
 

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My own truck (9) RiffRaff billet wheel, delete pedestal, delete exhaust outlet, 1.0 A/R turbine housing; 3" DP. PHP hydra. Consistantly pushing 20-22 psi. Peaks at 25.6psi. It spins up quick and starts digging in at 1400 rpm up. I get 20-22 mpg. At WOT, I can feel it at it's best at 22psi, which is about the same time mine shifts int the next gear. I'm sure, with a load, that would be a bit different... but a grade is not a load for it (empty). On the pass, my EGT's are about, 600-700*F... at about 70mph.

I haven't put a WW2 in mine, so I don't know how it compares in the same turbo.

I have put the Riifraff 66mm billet wheel (for the 38R) with a ported comp housing... and pulled it back out. I wasn't pushing enough fuel to spin it (yet)... but that will be a good turbo when I get the other injectors in.

WW2's are good wheels. I've helped friends put them in theirs. I didn't feel the same pull as mine, but they were in different setups. I think they could have been better if my friends went with different turbine housings. (Which you already have.)

Diiference in price between the 2 is about $50... but I think the RiffRaff was well worth that to me.
your getting 20-22mpg, I need to copy your setup. is that flat interstate or what type of terrain? That is really good mileage, jealous. I had gotten 20 a couple of times but that was a 70 or so mile trip on 35-55 mph roads for the most part.
 

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your getting 20-22mpg, I need to copy your setup. is that flat interstate or what type of terrain? That is really good mileage, jealous. I had gotten 20 a couple of times but that was a 70 or so mile trip on 35-55 mph roads for the most part.
Mixed terrain miles, but 3/4's of it is on the highway, over a "pass." I live in the foothills, over the pass from where I go to college. So I live about 35 miles from that school, with a pass that I have to go over twice a day.

Setup= 97 F350, CCLB, 4x4, E40D. <--Those 3 factors should kill me, but it doesn't. (Mileage = around 265 thousand.)

7.3l:

- Turbo: Parts I got through Barder Turbo. James and I get along well... and he's good people. Riffraff Billet wheel, 1.10 A/R Comp housing (polished, but otherwise stock), 1.0 A/R B/W turbine housing. EBPR delete pedestal. EBVPV delete highflow exhaust port (polished).

Note on the EBPV delete. Leave the EBP Sensor in. Make sure the tube is clean... and plugged in a Riffraff EBPR delete plug... otherwise it sets a soft code. System still sends the backpressure info to the PCM to adjust the fuel tables. (Instead of using a default value if you delete the sensor and use a fooler <-- was not as much power nor as good of fuel mileage).

-Exhaust: 3" downpipe, to 3" duals (no cat, muffler each, empties behind the rear wheels.

- Intake: RiffRaff HD boots w/ t-bolt clamps (all), stock snorkle to a 4" 45* to 6637 filter. Was using a K&N lifetime before that one. Personal preference- I really like Riffraff's boots. they are heavy duty reinforced construction. I won't have to worry about them when I'm pushing over 40psi with my other turbo.

- HPOP: (The Mystery Pump...) LOL. Joey and I laugh about this pump. it was in the truck when I got it. No branding. Looks stock. But this pump is consistently pushing between 3600-3865psi when asked for. Joey says I do not need to upgrade from this one when I go to bigger sticks. But if I ever decide I need to go to duals, that I should have this pump as one of them...

- 70 PSI FPR spring. Using the stock mechanical fuel at the moment. I have the electrical pump mounted to the frame, but not plumbed in yet.

- PHP Hydra, with the PHP canned tunes... I running stock AA Injectors right now. I am saving up for 238/100's... and for tune to support them and a Billet 66mm turbo.

- Tires/Gearing: 33's. 3.55 gearing. At 60 mph, I'm at 1450-1480 rpm. 65mph, about 1650? 70mph, between 1780-1820 rpm.

I/C: 6.0l I?C is mounted out front of all, but not plumped in yet. So at the moment. It's just there restricting my radiator without any benefits from it yet.

*** Not this weekend, but next weekend... I'm putting it on the road for a trip from here to 3 states over to marry off my step-daughter. That will be the first time I'll be able to check the mileage with this setup. Told the wife we need to shake down the truck before summer. (Good excuse eh?) Curious and excited to see how it does on straight highway miles. (Wife wanted us to take her little 2 seater...)

This summer will be towing a 26' 5th-wheel. Trying to get to a good stopping point before then. Then continue on this fall. I got 14 mpg for years... and begrudgingly paid for it. I used to be jealous of the mileage numbers for Cummin's. Now I'm just having too much fun.
 

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IMHO: both wheels are made by the same overseas company...... KTS Turbo Billet X

Billy T.
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Billy-
Since they are the manufacturer who makes for other company's, you may be right... or even if the same manufacturer, there still may be slight differences between the two, I don't know... but it does look like this one doesn't it?

Darn thing wouldn't let me insert to the online image... attached.
 

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Mixed terrain miles, but 3/4's of it is on the highway, over a "pass." I live in the foothills, over the pass from where I go to college. So I live about 35 miles from that school, with a pass that I have to go over twice a day.

Setup= 97 F350, CCLB, 4x4, E40D. <--Those 3 factors should kill me, but it doesn't. (Mileage = around 265 thousand.)

7.3l:

- Turbo: Parts I got through Barder Turbo. James and I get along well... and he's good people. Riffraff Billet wheel, 1.10 A/R Comp housing (polished, but otherwise stock), 1.0 A/R B/W turbine housing. EBPR delete pedestal. EBVPV delete highflow exhaust port (polished).

Note on the EBPV delete. Leave the EBP Sensor in. Make sure the tube is clean... and plugged in a Riffraff EBPR delete plug... otherwise it sets a soft code. System still sends the backpressure info to the PCM to adjust the fuel tables. (Instead of using a default value if you delete the sensor and use a fooler <-- was not as much power nor as good of fuel mileage).

-Exhaust: 3" downpipe, to 3" duals (no cat, muffler each, empties behind the rear wheels.

- Intake: RiffRaff HD boots w/ t-bolt clamps (all), stock snorkle to a 4" 45* to 6637 filter. Was using a K&N lifetime before that one. Personal preference- I really like Riffraff's boots. they are heavy duty reinforced construction. I won't have to worry about them when I'm pushing over 40psi with my other turbo.

- HPOP: (The Mystery Pump...) LOL. Joey and I laugh about this pump. it was in the truck when I got it. No branding. Looks stock. But this pump is consistently pushing between 3600-3865psi when asked for. Joey says I do not need to upgrade from this one when I go to bigger sticks. But if I ever decide I need to go to duals, that I should have this pump as one of them...

- 70 PSI FPR spring. Using the stock mechanical fuel at the moment. I have the electrical pump mounted to the frame, but not plumbed in yet.

- PHP Hydra, with the PHP canned tunes... I running stock AA Injectors right now. I am saving up for 238/100's... and for tune to support them and a Billet 66mm turbo.

- Tires/Gearing: 33's. 3.55 gearing. At 60 mph, I'm at 1450-1480 rpm. 65mph, about 1650? 70mph, between 1780-1820 rpm.

I/C: 6.0l I?C is mounted out front of all, but not plumped in yet. So at the moment. It's just there restricting my radiator without any benefits from it yet.

*** Not this weekend, but next weekend... I'm putting it on the road for a trip from here to 3 states over to marry off my step-daughter. That will be the first time I'll be able to check the mileage with this setup. Told the wife we need to shake down the truck before summer. (Good excuse eh?) Curious and excited to see how it does on straight highway miles. (Wife wanted us to take her little 2 seater...)

This summer will be towing a 26' 5th-wheel. Trying to get to a good stopping point before then. Then continue on this fall. I got 14 mpg for years... and begrudgingly paid for it. I used to be jealous of the mileage numbers for Cummin's. Now I'm just having too much fun.
Sounds like pretty straight forward setup. the only thing that jumps out at me is the HPOP pushing that much. I thought 3200 or 3400 was max that the 7.3's should be doing for the injectors. Maybe the higher pressure atomizing the fuel better for a better burn.
 

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Most that have twin pump setups (even though this is single pump) with tunes calling for higher pressure than average ( I would say anything above 3000-3200) tend to get quite a jump in mpg. Imo that would definitely point to better atomization being the reason for the added low end and better mpg, again just my opinion based off what I have learned
 

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Either wheel should've work.

The wheel that has blade tips all the same height is meant for a ported compressor cover. The wheel that has blades with different heights is meant for a non-ported compressor cover. The different wheel designs are meant for compressor surge.

I was using a same height billet wheel in my D66 with a non-ported cover. When I replaced the D66 due to a leaking oil seal on the exhaust side, the new turbo came a billet wheel with different heights. I could not tell the difference.

The SD guys swap over to an OBS wheel to eliminate compressor surge. The OBS wheel was became known as the Wicked Wheel. When the OBS wheel was made from billet aluminum, it got the name Wicked Wheel 2.

Billy T.
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Billy-
I'm confused by what you are trying to say. I know what you said, but it didn't come out right. I think I know what you meant... No offense meant, but that isn't how it works and why. The fins and whether one style is 12 level fin ends or a 6/6 design has nothing to do with needing ported covers or not. They are just different wheel styles/designs.

(This is just meant to explain that.)

Your D66 and my other Billet 66mm are the same. in that they both have ported comp housings to be able to use the larger 66mmx88mm TP-38R wheels... Depending who you got your D66 from, you could have gotten different wheels with it (stock 38R or better). Beans original D60 used to be with the stock 38R wheel, I don't know about now. Those models are a hybrid, modified turbo using the parts between 2 different turbos, to make a "larger" OBS bolt-on turbo...

But the OP is an early stock TP-38 (with it's stock housing) so he is an 60mm x 80mm wheel... whether it is taller or not.

Taller doesn't mean you have to port the housing. It just means that inducer fin tips tend to extend into the comp housing inlet... So if you look into the turbo comp inlet, you see those fins "closer" in there... making the area of the impeller fins bigger/longer without having to do anything to the housings. You can do that and fit into the original housing.

One theory of using of the staggered 5/5 and 6/6 designs are that is grabs air faster (from stagnant to flowing) and can spin up faster than having the fins are at one height. The other-side of that theory is that you lose fin area doing that...

Other-
Yes, you are probably right. I think my HPOP has added something to the mix, but I just can't put my thumb on it and say what that might be specifically--> "...yes it provides "this"..." Because I don't really know. When I bought the truck used from the Ford Dealer, I assumed it was stock (except for the DP, exhaust and intake). I knew it was owned by a company that towed with it. And that it felt like it had guts...

I found it had been previously chipped. The HPOP pressure is not what you find as being normal or ordinary. In what I did find on it, I cannot say for sure that it has stock injectors or not. I would assume so, because that is where my bottle neck is at the moment. So it doesn't matter what is there, I know I need more. I can't go any larger air until I can provide more fuel. (And tunes to support both). Going "big," I can always tune for less fuel. Hard to go the other way.
 

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Yea, I probably explained wrong.

A ported compressor housing is NOT a housing machined to accept the 66mm wheel.

A ported housing (left) vs non-ported housing (right).


The equal length tip wheel was designed/made first. Once the they billet wheel was being sold, everyone was putting that wheel in their turbo. After a while, some where experiencing surge and found that the design of the wheel was wrong for the non-ported housing. Then the 6/6 blade design was made.

The "66mm style turbos" utilize the wheel from a 38R. Hence the reason they originally came with equal length blades. The 38R had a ported cover. The TP38 turbos modified were not ported housings. The housings were machined to fit the 38R wheel. Then those who running the turbo hard began to experience surge.

You could read/see the different wheels here:
DIESELSITE - DIESEL MAINTENANCE and PERFORMANCE - Turbos and Related Parts


Billy T.
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The wheel in the new turbo has 9 fins. They're closer together, and seem to have less pitch than the original. I have great top end boost (1900+ rpm). Under that, the turbo seems to "pulsate" and chug a bit. I can't find any leaks on the drive or compressor sides. Truck was just scanned. HPOP is pushing about 3300lbs. A contribution test showed all injectors working fine.
When I look at the fins between the two, it just seems the difference in pitch alone should make a huge difference. At least I hope.
 

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So the housing on the right is the stock Super Duty GTP-38 houisng. The housing on the left is an OEM ATS 1.0 A/R comp housing for the Super Duty's, both for 99-03. Those turbos all have a bigger diameter compressor housing. Note the 5 holes instead of 4. The stock had the same inlet size as our's 3". The ATS is a 4" inlet.

Both have innards for a 60mm wheel. I looked at that housing. It is $400 and will not work on OBS TP-38 turbos. I mean a bigger inlet would be nice... I looked at if it was possible to mod or adapt to a TP-38 and I didn't see a way to do it.

This is the wheel in my Billet 66mm:

This is the wheel in my TP-38:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Changed it. The difference is noticeable. Starts boosting a few hundred rpm's sooner. I have an Automatic, and it seems to keep better pressure in the pipe while cruising in and out of the throttle while driving in town or up and down hills and thru curves on backroads. On the freeway, at about 65mph, the turbo spin is almost deafening (seriously). Don't know if it's from the Riffraff Wheel, the 1.0 housing, or both. Thanks for all the advice!
 
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