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I'm saving stuff on a regular computer... so I'm not much help on the android.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
Do you mean you're using a laptop to run the full install of ForScan?
 

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Yes. I have an OBDlink SX (and now an EX, although I haven't actually taken data with that one yet) which is a usb connection. My phone is more of a dumb smart phone. Typically... I start the laptop up, connect to the truck, click the capture data button, then start the engine and drive to where I need to go. Once I'm where ever I want to be I stop the data collection, save it, shut the truck off then shut down Forscan.
 

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Discussion Starter #44
The paperclip won't let me upload a ForScanLog (.FSL) file, or a CSV. So here's a link to what I think is a log of the surging:
FORScan Log File
Both were in the folder Phone/Downloads/ForScan.

But I noticed something that might be relevant the last few times it surged at startup: the selected gear PID showed R even though I just started the engine. So it seems that the power side of the MLPS is correctly in P (to allow cranking). But the logic side is in the wrong range. Even bumping the shifter doesn't correct it - I have to actually shift to R or N, and then back to P for the PID to show P. I'm going to try adjusting the MLPS & the shift cable before buying a new MLPS. I'll also try to notice what the PID shows before I turn the key off after each drive.





I assume that could also have something to do with the shifting problem (which hasn't reappeared in weeks).
 

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Interesting find! Hopefully the adjustment works! Cheers!
 

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Discussion Starter #46 (Edited)
It looks like it needs to be replaced. Even after aligning it all, it still shows R at startup. And when I shift to D & back to P, the surging stops immediately. If I start it in R again, it surges. This is the log.

(phone app link)


Is F7LZ-7F293-AB / SW5713 the improved part? I couldn't find it in the parts list, or the connector to match. The original is F5TZ-7A247-B / SW5063 (also not in the parts list) which I can buy new for ~$58 and just plug in. The revised one is ~$48 + the connector + the labor of swapping the connector shells.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
Driving today, I found that it DOES sometimes show R during key-on. So after slamming it into P a few times, I got it to show P, and it started without surging. That happened at least 2x today. My last stop was in a drive-through, where I shut it down to talk to the box person, and the connection dropped. When I re-started, the adapter wasn't connected, but the engine didn't surge. By the time I got to the pay window, it had re-connected, and showed R when I had it in Park waiting for my card back. I slammed it to Park, but couldn't get past R this time. When I tried to pull forward, the PID showed N when I was in D, and it FINALLY exhibited the sluggish acceleration that started this thread! So I pulled it down into 1, where it showed Man2, but drove normally up to the food window. By the time I got out on the road, it was behaving normally again.

So it seems like both problems (the odd shifting & the surging at startup) have been the MLPS this whole time. I've ordered a NOS MC SW5063 (original design MLPS) which should arrive in about a week.
 

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That is some good information. I'm trying to wrap my head around how it would cause the rough running problems, I wonder if the switch is full of water or something? I would think the truck should run fine regardless of what gear it thinks it's in, but obviously not.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #49 (Edited)
It never ran rough - it only surged at idle immediately after startup, for maybe 20 seconds max. Then it would smooth out on its own, if I did nothing.

I hosed the truck off thoroughly at least 5x and pressure-washed it at least 2x when I bought it (it was muddy as hell), but this symptom didn't appear for months. And there was no sign of water inside the switch when I pulled it off to adjust everything (as the pic in my post 2 days ago shows). I can only assume it's failing from age. And I assume that when it starts "in-gear", that screws with some idle strategy, causing the surging. WILD, BLIND GUESS, that. I hope Mark checks in again, to provide some more insight on the situation.

I think this log file will show me turning the key on, shifting a few times to get R back to P, starting the engine w/o surging, driving, and then being in R when I turned the key off. Or it might be the log of when I pulled from the ordering speaker up to the windows, which would still show some of the shifting problems.
 

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I've been following along. If I have anything to add I will put it in here.

I haven't worked on engine logic in more than 30 years. My knowledge of that aspect is so outdated as to be useless.
 

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Discussion Starter #51
OK, thanks. I thought it might have been some obscure transmission strategy programmed into the PCM about cranking in-gear, like push-starting, or recovering from a stall while the truck's still rolling fast enough to restart the engine.

What do you think about the TR PID showing Man2 while the mechanical lever is at the OD position? Does my original symptom (starting off in a higher gear) match what you'd expect the trans/PCM to do in that situation? I'm hoping for some confirmation that the new MLPS will cure at least one of these symptoms.
 

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That does sound like a bad or misadjusted MLPS.

There is no logic that allows push starting or recovering from a stall while moving.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
The new MLPS arrived late today, but I'm not sure when I'll have time to install it. I'm swapping a Subaru long block for someone who needs to get back to Colorado.

(phone app link)
 

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Discussion Starter #54
The new switch is in, and the symptoms didn't reappear on the first few drives, but I'm not ready to call it fixed yet. I'll post up if it surges at startup again, or starts in a higher gear.

(phone app link)


While I was under it, I also took care of this:

(phone app link)
 

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Discussion Starter #55
Is this related?

Shortly after this repair (NEVER before), I noticed that there is no afterglow - the GPR shuts down as soon as the engine starts. It used to stay on for ~15 seconds. It's also slightly harder to start. It used to light off after <1 second of cranking, without smoke. Now, I frequently crank for >5 seconds, without even a sputter. Then I cycle the key, and get a lot of white smoke. It may start, or not until the 3rd/4th cycle. But it still runs fine, without smoke.
 

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I can't see how the repair is related (but one never knows). How's the voltage drop across the relay when it is active? What about your BARO and EOT, are they reasonable? Cheers!
 

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Discussion Starter #57
The volt gauge on the dash, and the one in the USB power adapter, show the battery/alternator voltage is low when the GPR is active, so I haven't checked directly across the relay. They both still show ~10~11V before cranking, but ~12V if the key is turned back or OFF (the USB adapter is always on). So I know the (8 new MotorCraft) glow plugs are burning. When I was watching live data for the stall/shift problems, the BARO seemed to correspond to the MAP, which certainly works (I could tell when the boost gauge line popped loose). I don't recognize EOT - what is that?
 

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EOT- is engine oil temp.

What is your cycle time without starting the truck? ( Turn the key on, ignore the wts light, don't crank.) Should be 1 1/2-2 minutes cold.

When my GPR is getting weak, I start noticing it starts different, not hard but different. Through testing, 1.5 volt drop across the relay is where I notice it.

Question for those involved here: I see his voltage reported between 10 and 11 volts, I know at 10 volts things behave strange, less than 10 it won't run. Could that be his problem?

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Discussion Starter #59 (Edited)
Well, that was productive...

Yes, it cycles ~90sec.




...WHEN it actually engages. Apparently, the contacts in the GPR are burned just enough to make contact sometimes, and not other times. When it doesn't, the key-on voltage is ~12; when it does, it's ~10.5. So I guess it was NOT actually coming on those times that it smoked, and coming on the times that it started. But when it started, it lost connection before the afterglow. The result of 8 new GPs & good battery terminals on an old GPR, I suppose.

Thanks, BTN, for making me double-check. I may open the GPR to see how bad it is. I've done it to a gasser starter relay, and returned it to working for quite a while.

(phone app link)


And yes, Patrick, the EOT shows the same as the thermometer in the rear-view mirror before starting, and rises slowly after.
 

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Glad you found it. I'm sure the disc and posts inside the relay are pretty sad, I'll pass on a couple words of caution about taking it apart and fixing it.

First, sometimes the heat from the bad connection internally melts the bakelite and the posts get loose. ( I know you know this, but it's part of the process.) At this point it's trash. I don't remember the posts being removable for cleaning like many older starter relays.

Second, the contact disc is most likely a plated steel washer, I have seen instances in the past where after cleaning, the plating was removed of course, the disc would stick to the posts. ( It would arc and "weld" itself.) Which could result in melted wiring and an under hood fire when the relay sticks on

Third, most starter relays, older ones anyway, are case grounded. ( The coil is grounded to the mounting plate) GPR's, are NOT. Care must be taken not to short out the coil.

Good luck! Might also check out the Stancor relay upgrade, a lot of guys on here swear by it.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk
 
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