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Squeezing out Torque...
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m j--
I don't understand that graph and how it's laid out. I haven't played with that part yet. (I have in AE.)

Is that pressure over a set time? Pressure one axis, Time on the other? I'm thinking that was pressure scale going up, time left to right... ebp in blue and boost in red?

What about RPM/Pressure or RPM/Volts?

With AE, it is over time, but you have other things showing over that same time. Hard to show psi, volts, rpm, etc... on the same axis scale... on a single chart.

If you did RPM in 100's by dividing by 100 in your equation? Then added that to graph? Hmmm... if there was someway to calculate what a "load" condition was and how to scale that. I know the PCM calculates that somehow just to figure out how to adjust fuel... I'm thinking.
 

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What's the max boost the ecu can read? Or isn't it limited?

Also hopefully this works with modified trucks not just mostly stock ones
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
the bottom axix is time



I havent figured out for sure what the max boost the MAP can read, I think it is around 36 psi, my regulator clips it at 24.5 in that last graph
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
What's the max boost the ecu can read? Or isn't it limited?

Also hopefully this works with modified trucks not just mostly stock ones
I have a few modifications
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
the first one is time based, boost is blue showing the regulator is working and preventing anything over 24.5 getting to the MAP sensor preventing it from going out of range. I have a new regulator on the way with a finer adjustment scale 5-50psi to replace the home depot one.

the log just dumps data, I was trying to figure out excel graphing, Capp gave the hint to use secondary axis, which is the scale shown on the right for big values (rpm, icp) where the left is for small values

m j--
I don't understand that graph and how it's laid out. I haven't played with that part yet. (I have in AE.)

Is that pressure over a set time? Pressure one axis, Time on the other? I'm thinking that was pressure scale going up, time left to right... ebp in blue and boost in red?

What about RPM/Pressure or RPM/Volts?

With AE, it is over time, but you have other things showing over that same time. Hard to show psi, volts, rpm, etc... on the same axis scale... on a single chart.

If you did RPM in 100's by dividing by 100 in your equation? Then added that to graph? Hmmm... if there was someway to calculate what a "load" condition was and how to scale that. I know the PCM calculates that somehow just to figure out how to adjust fuel... I'm thinking.
 

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Squeezing out Torque...
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From the little I've read on it... the problem isn't that the MAP cannot read it... that it goes off a scale or anything of the MAP Sensor... OSB Turbo's do not have a turbo boost wastegate.. Pressure was read and controlled by readings from the MAP sensor...

***The problem, is that the MAP sends data about manifold pressure to the ECU. If the pressure is too high, such as with an over-boost condition, the PCM sends that info to the ECU, the ECU says that's too much boost and dumps the fuel injector signals, cutting down the fuel, to try to reduce the boost... Not knowing that the High Boost condition was just m j's bigger turbo, chipped motor on bigger injector's trying to make more power... (mod'ed) More pressure, planned, more power.

So to fool the MAP and keep it from doing that, a MAP fooler, somehow see's low-pressure fluctuations, regulates how much pressure the MAP reads as it sees it <==> without dumping the actual real boost pressure in the intake manifiold. So m j's fooler cuts back at 24.5 psi, telling the MAP sensor that "that" is his pressure, even though the actual is higher. I'm not sure yet "how" it does that regulation or pressure relief that is isolated, without affecting the actual boost pressure, but I know the "why" it does that. I would love to hear more on how to make a DIY on that...
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
boost fooler- the reason we need it

the MAP sensor from ford takes a pressure signal and converts it to a frequency signal to send to the PCM. the factory turbo system put out a whopping ?20psi? on its best day but ford put in an overkill sensor that reads to ~36psi
if your turbo puts out more then ~36psi (havent tested the exact number) you exceed the range that the sensor reads correctly
you notice it when the motor bucks hard, and Torque with our current formula reads -30psi or so and hangs for awhile.
I will test this with a regulator and my air compressor logging with torque in a controlled environ (no idea how to spell that if its a word) and post it so we can figure it out
the superduty guys PCM programming defuels and trips a CEL when they go over mid 20s on their voltage based MAP sensors
ours trips an overboost DTC I think anything over ???hz but I dont think it defuels or anything until the sensor is maxed.

boost fooler methods

pressure relief valve- you vent excess pressure from the map line. I have one at my mailbox but havent picked it up yet. so you will see logs of that being tested eventually

regulator- I am currrently running a homedepot $30cdn regulator but it is for air tools that need 90-120psi.
so to set it at someting we need it is basically backed all the way off and the knob is flopping about.
I have found what I think is the perfect reg for this application (pretty sure it is sold by vendors here) and it is on the way. you can buy it direct from the distributor for about $23 in the US

adjustment range is 5-50psi, I chose 1/8npt and no pressure gauge port (we only care what the PCM sees and we can see that with torque)
Pressure regulators R07-100-RNEA – Norgren Webstore United States

current home depot setup




yellow line is to autometer boost gauge
 

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Squeezing out Torque...
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regulator- I am currrently running a homedepot $30cdn regulator but it is for air tools that need 90-120psi.
so to set it at someting we need it is basically backed all the way off and the knob is flopping about.
So an air regulator for an airbrush (paint) would be perfect...
 

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Here is a screen shot from my trip home from work yesterday. Some notes:

I tried the equations from post 25 in this thread. The boost equation has uneven parenthesis, so I removed one at the front and got the results above. I am going to try this instead next time I drive it: ((((A*256)+B)*0.00109)-15.73)-Baro()

The EBP worked well. IATf seemed to be reading Celsius, or was just wrong, but was really close if degrees C. Trans temp in F worked well, that's the only tranny PID I had in at the time. The MAP I used was actually the one already included in the Ford custom list, and read really closely to my mechanical boost gauge.

Thanks for the work being done on this. I will hopefully see tomorrow if the boost equation got fixed with this parenthesis.

MJ, it looked like your IAT f worked correctly on your last screen shot, what equation are you using for it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
I think I have the 'units' blank in mine.
I currently have IATf (((A*256)+B)*-0.00314)+193.34
so I guess I need to make a new post
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
keep the feedback rolling plz and thank you for your input

Mode/PID: 221445
Long name: Exhaust Back Pressure 7.3
Short name: EBP
Min value: 0
Max value: 75
Scale: x1
Unit: psia
Equation: (((A*256)+B*0.03625)-6.6
Header: Auto
comments: 12/01/2014

Mode/PID: 22114A
Long name: IATf OBS
Short name: IATf
Min value: 0
Max value: 100
Scale: x1
Unit: °F
Equation: (((A*256)+B)*-0.00370)+193.34
Header: C410F1
comments: 15/01/2014

Mode/PID: 221452
Long name: Boost OBS
Short name: Boost
Min value: 0
Max value: 60
Scale: x1
Unit: psi
Equation: ((((A*256)+B*0.00109)-15.73)-Baro()
Header: C410F1
comments: 12/01/14 seems to read psia

Mode/PID: 221452
Long name: MAP frequency OBS
Short name: MAPf
Min value: 100
Max value: 256
Scale: x1
Unit: Hz
Equation: ((A*256)+B)*0.00395
Header: C410F1
comments: 12/01/2014

Mode/PID: 22114A
Long name: IAT volt OBS
Short name: IATv
Min value: 0
Max value: 5
Scale: x1
Unit: V
Equation: ((A*256)+B)/13168
Header: C410F1
comments: 14/01/2014

Mode/PID: 221452
Long name: MAP OBS
Short name: MAP
Min value: 0
Max value: 50
Scale: x1
Unit: psia
Equation: (((A*256)+B)*0.00109)-15.73
Header: C410F1
comments: 12/01/2014

Mode/PID: 221452
Long name: MAP kpa OBS
Short name: MAP
Min value: 0
Max value: 1000
Scale: x1
Unit: kpa
Equation: (((A*256)+B)*0.00752)-109.25
Header: C410F1
comments: 12/01/2014

Mode/PID: 221127
Long name: Baro1 OBS
Short name: Baro27
Min value: 0
Max value: 20
Scale: x1
Unit: psia
Equation: A*0.1
Header: C410F1
comments: 12/01/2014

Mode/PID: 221442
Long name: Baro2 OBS
Short name: Baro42
Min value: 0
Max value: 20
Scale: x1
Unit: psia
Equation: ((A*256)+B)/27.67985874
Header: C410F1
comments: 15/01/2014

Mode/PID: 221442
Long name: Baro kpa OBS
Short name: Baro
Min value: 0
Max value: 100
Scale: x1
Unit: kpa
Equation: ((A*256)+B)/4.01463133
Header: C410F1
comments: 12/01/2014

Mode/PID: 221442
Long name: Baro inH2O OBS
Short name: Baro
Min value: 0
Max value: 100
Scale: x1
Unit: inH2O
Equation: (A*256)+B
Header: C410F1
comments: 12/01/2014

Mode/PID: 22114A
Long name: IATc OBS
Short name: IATc
Min value: -10
Max value: 30
Scale: x1
Unit: °C
Equation: (((A*256)+B)*-0.00174)+89.65
Header: C410F1
comments: 15/01/2014

Mode/PID: 2211BD
Long name: TFT V OBS
Short name: Trans V
Min value: 0
Max value: 5
Scale: x1
Unit: V
Equation: (((A*256)+B)/13168
Header: C410F1
comments: 15/01/2014

Mode/PID: 2211BD
Long name: TFT f OBS
Short name: Trans
Min value: 0
Max value: 230
Scale: x1
Unit: °F
Equation: (((A*256)+B)*-0.00360)+212.98
Header: C410F1
comments: 15/01/2014

Mode/PID: 2211BD
Long name: TFT c OBS
Short name: Trans
Min value: 0
Max value: 230
Scale: x1
Unit: °C
Equation: (((A*256)+B)*-0.00189)+95.35
Header: C410F1
comments: 15/01/2014
 

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Fixing Broken Stuff
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Anybody have a problem using the torque app on a 7.3 and the engine stalls, I've tried it on a OBS and a SD and the CEL came on and it stalled, ??? IDK.
I've used it on 6.0's and other vehicles with out any problem, just stalls the 7.3.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
uncheck the auto scan for codes. it resets the pcm which sucks while driving
 

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Squeezing out Torque...
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157 Posts
keep the feedback rolling plz and thank you for your input
m j--

Previously you asked me (on the Torque Forum) about:

Mode/PID: 221180
Long name: Trans Temp Input OBS (volts)
Short name: TFTv
Min value: 0
Max value: 5
Scale: x1
Unit: V
Equation: ????
Header: C410F1
comments: ???? is a missing equation

Did you have an equation for that, to start from...

When I get my PCM back in... (my stolen chip is re-ordered) Would it help if I run an AE report to query what the reportable systems are... to see what other info we might be able to get?
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
I think Greenwhite1 got those tested for a response and we have formula to test.

more corrections. if I typo, or newer stuff comes up feel free to correct/add to the list

thanks Guys

Mode/PID: 221445
Long name: Exhaust Back Pressure 7.3
Short name: EBP
Min value: 0
Max value: 75
Scale: x1
Unit: psia
Equation: (((A*256)+B)*0.03625)-6.6
Header: Auto
comments: 12/01/2014

Mode/PID: 22114A
Long name: IATf OBS
Short name: IATf
Min value: 0
Max value: 100
Scale: x1
Unit: °F
Equation: (((A*256)+B)*-0.00314)+193.34
Header: C410F1
comments: 20/01/2014

Mode/PID: 221452
Long name: Boost OBS
Short name: Boost
Min value: 0
Max value: 60
Scale: x1
Unit: psi
Equation: ((((A*256)+B)*0.00109)-15.73)-Baro()
Header: C410F1
comments: 20/01/2014

Mode/PID: 221452
Long name: MAP frequency OBS
Short name: MAPf
Min value: 100
Max value: 256
Scale: x1
Unit: Hz
Equation: ((A*256)+B)*0.00395
Header: C410F1
comments: 12/01/2014

Mode/PID: 22114A
Long name: IAT volt OBS
Short name: IATv
Min value: 0
Max value: 5
Scale: x1
Unit: V
Equation: ((A*256)+B)/13168
Header: C410F1
comments: 14/01/2014

Mode/PID: 221452
Long name: MAP OBS
Short name: MAP
Min value: 0
Max value: 50
Scale: x1
Unit: psia
Equation: (((A*256)+B)*0.00109)-15.73
Header: C410F1
comments: 12/01/2014

Mode/PID: 221452
Long name: MAP kpa OBS
Short name: MAP
Min value: 0
Max value: 1000
Scale: x1
Unit: kpa
Equation: (((A*256)+B)*0.00752)-109.25
Header: C410F1
comments: 12/01/2014

Mode/PID: 221127
Long name: Baro1 OBS
Short name: Baro27
Min value: 0
Max value: 20
Scale: x1
Unit: psia
Equation: A*0.1
Header: C410F1
comments: 12/01/2014

Mode/PID: 221442
Long name: Baro2 OBS
Short name: Baro42
Min value: 0
Max value: 20
Scale: x1
Unit: psia
Equation: ((A*256)+B)/27.67985874
Header: C410F1
comments: 15/01/2014

Mode/PID: 221442
Long name: Baro kpa OBS
Short name: Baro
Min value: 0
Max value: 100
Scale: x1
Unit: kpa
Equation: ((A*256)+B)/4.01463133
Header: C410F1
comments: 12/01/2014

Mode/PID: 221442
Long name: Baro inH2O OBS
Short name: Baro
Min value: 0
Max value: 100
Scale: x1
Unit: inH2O
Equation: (A*256)+B
Header: C410F1
comments: 12/01/2014

Mode/PID: 22114A
Long name: IATc OBS
Short name: IATc
Min value: -10
Max value: 30
Scale: x1
Unit: °C
Equation: (((A*256)+B)*-0.00174)+89.65
Header: C410F1
comments: 15/01/2014

Mode/PID: 2211BD
Long name: TFT V OBS
Short name: Trans V
Min value: 0
Max value: 5
Scale: x1
Unit: V
Equation: (((A*256)+B)/13168
Header: C410F1
comments: 15/01/2014

Mode/PID: 2211BD
Long name: TFT f OBS
Short name: Trans
Min value: 0
Max value: 230
Scale: x1
Unit: °F
Equation: (((A*256)+B)*-0.00314)+212.98
Header: C410F1
comments: 20/01/2014

Mode/PID: 2211BD
Long name: TFT c OBS
Short name: Trans
Min value: 0
Max value: 230
Scale: x1
Unit: °C
Equation: (((A*256)+B)*-0.00189)+95.35
Header: C410F1
comments: 15/01/2014
 

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I tried that boost equation today but it just stayed at -2 psi the whole time.
 

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Squeezing out Torque...
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I tried that boost equation today but it just stayed at -2 psi the whole time.
Please check to see if you are getting any data from BARO... Then check the Settings > General settings > Boost Calc Method... and see what you have selected there.

I found that if you are not getting data from Baro and it isn't substituting a value for that, then things ended up on the negative side. I'm still trying to work that out on mine... But have to wait for that "on mine."
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
try removing the "-Baro()" part and see if it reads, will be reading in psia which is about 14.7 high
I think MAFo has a Baro issue with his too

LoL tree'd
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
or was that with the missing ")" ? i typo'd and jschildm caught it :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
Mode/PID: 2211BD
Long name: TFT f OBS
Short name: Trans
Min value: 0
Max value: 230
Scale: x1
Unit: °F
Equation: (((A*256)+B)*-0.00360)+212.98
Header: C410F1
comments: 20/01/2014
 
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