[badford350]

Im just thinking aloud but I want to hear your thoughts on weather this is cost effective or just plane old over kill.
I have been reading post on guy's worried about high transmission temps and their attempt to fix them. I have seen larger oil pans and upgrades to the 6.0 oil cooler. all in all they seem to do very well. but do they do as good as the could possibly do?

My idea is to add a 6.0 oil cooler to the frame close to the transmission and use it with the stock one still installed. It seems like a lot of cooling but this is where it gets more expensive. I priced a set of 12vdc valves with a 1/4 inlet/outlet, about $45 a piece. With three of them and 2 tees and a thremacouple you would be able to use the second cooler or bypass it. I thought on the return line, close to the transmision, I would install the first tee. on the two outlet sides of this would be a valve. THe one going to the transmission would be a normaly open valve in case of failure. The other valve going to the secondary cooler. this valve would be normaly close incase of failure to send fluid directly to the transmission. On the outlet side of the cooler I thought of installing a third valve just to ensure that when the secondary cooler was actuated it would keep the cooler from empting itself into the pan. also a normail closed valve. Im not sure if this is a need to keep the air out or not? but the second tee would have to go between the transmission and the first normaly closed valve for return and proper flow. all of this would be actuated by a thermacouple. this would open the valves or close the valves to the appropriate position to bypass or use the secondary cooler. as well as engage or disengage a small electric fan on the secondary cooler. I also thought of installing a bypass switch so that you could manuel add the second cooler when you want. as well as a LED some where near the transmission temp gauge to let you know that both coolers are being used.

now with all that said I wanted to do this so that in cold climates the transmission would not stay cold on the highway. and in warm climates, like hear in the middile of arizona, it would add a lot of extra cooling.
I just would like to hear some of your thoughts on this if its extreme over kill or just to much cost to for what you gain. To me this is simple compared to the jets I work on, so the building and wiring is not a problem. all together I think this would cost around 400.

 

[CSIPSD]

I have never had an issue with my two coolers and being too cold...

BD makes a fan controled cooler, this would be ideal for what you are talking about because where you are talking about mounting it, there is little airflow for cooling. But if it got hot, then the fan turns on and wala...

 

[slowleak]

sounds like a great idea, but couldnt you just get away with adding a 6.o cooler along with the factory cooler and put some fans on it? i was thinking about just adding fans to my stock cooler. do you think it would make a difference?

 

[slowleak]

shucks CSIPSD mut have posted at the same time as me. where did you get your kit from?

 

[bigblockhorse]

you guys are making it too hard, I would not go stacking a bunch of coolers on it and thus creating restriction.

One 31 row 5r110 cooler stand alone and the factory 4r100 bypass will be sufficient.

No fancy pans.

If you still have temp issues something's wrong, and I dont mean anything thats over 150, it needs some heat to work properly.

 

[slowleak]

ok this being said, whats the optimum temp to run at?

 

[CSIPSD]

I dont have anything other then the factory cooler and a Big aftermarket one... 130-170 is about the best temps...

 

[badford350]

THis is what I thought But I know that in sub zero climates it takes a long time to warm up. So how does the 5r110 cooler with the factory unit do at -20? Does it actuly cool to much? when I lived in alaska two coolers would be way too much, imho. but now that I have my bags packed hear in phoeniex Two sounds right. this is why I have thought of building this system. I dont believe with the valves any extra restriction would be added. espeacily since you could lock out the second cooler. I am sorry I just mentioned the pan because I know they are out their. I wouldn't realy buy one. but would build this.

 

[Dysfunctional]

Before my stock TC took a crap... I never broke 180*. Not driving in town, or towing in the mountains or in 110*+ weather and basically driving like a dick head. That's with the mods in my sig and towing in the mountains with my cabover and rock crawler in tow.

 

[CSIPSD]

THis is what I thought But I know that in sub zero climates it takes a long time to warm up. So how does the 5r110 cooler with the factory unit do at -20? Does it actuly cool to much? when I lived in alaska two coolers would be way too much, imho. but now that I have my bags packed hear in phoeniex Two sounds right. this is why I have thought of building this system. I dont believe with the valves any extra restriction would be added. espeacily since you could lock out the second cooler. I am sorry I just mentioned the pan because I know they are out their. I wouldn't realy buy one. but would build this.

Your tranny has a bypass for just that reason... if its too cold it bypasses the cooler and goes right back in... Never had an issue with too cold or too hot... Dont make it hard... just add a second cooler.

 

[LarryM]

ok this being said, whats the optimum temp to run at?

According to an ex-Ford tranny engineer the tranny does need to run at a decent temperature ...

Burning off moisture is part of the reason.

Colder is not always better. The transmission is designed to run about 170-180. The drag is less at these temperatures, which produces a little more power at the wheels and more fuel economy.

Larry

 

[444-4D]

If you want to have two coolers on your truck and have the fluid run thru either one or both of them based on it's temp, all you need to do is install a thermostat between the two coolers.

 

[badford350]

I didn't relize that is what the bybass did. I do think just adding a second cooler would probably fine and easier. But Im still thinking about adding a fan with the second on a auto setup. but this was the exact kind of feed back I was looking for. I thought it would be over kill. But it still would have been fun to build. THe only question that has been unasnswered is how do the two coolers work in subzero climates?

 

[444-4D]

I didn't relize that is what the bybass did.

The bypass is a simple pressure relief valve. It opens at about 50 psi regardless of temp. In sub zero temps two coolers will increase the possibility of jelling the fluid.

 

[Racer X]

The down side to 2 coolers is converter failure like Dysfunctional's. The original is going to have some crud in it. I don't see the point of adding another cooler when 1 will have some crud build up. It's either going to flow slower or worst some crud will break loose. Then you possibly have a full clog. I'd just think of the modern cooler as a throw away. Any partial blockage is eliminated by replacement with 1 properly sized new cooler. Cheap insurance for a $3-4K build.

 

[Racer X]

According to an ex-Ford tranny engineer the tranny does need to run at a decent temperature ...

Burning off moisture is part of the reason.

Colder is not always better. The transmission is designed to run about 170-180. The drag is less at these temperatures, which produces a little more power at the wheels and more fuel economy.



Larry

I see the logic of 170 for drag. Where will a level of moisture to burn off come from? The difference in temps at shutdown may make some condensation or not. Probably on the outside of the case.
In engines fuel is burned and water and moisture are a by product. That moisture does need normal engine temp to return to vapor, be sucked into the intake and burned.
In a transmission nothing is burned, no combustion. So wheres the engineer coming up with water and why don't bare metal steel parts inside rust if there is an atf water mix going on? It takes 220 degrees to boil water. I'm not following that engineers theory relating to transmissions. Any more info?

 

[LarryM]

In a transmission nothing is burned, no combustion. So wheres the engineer coming up with water and why don't bare metal steel parts inside rust if there is an atf water mix going on? It takes 220 degrees to boil water. I'm not following that engineers theory relating to transmissions. Any more info?

Nope all I have is what is in that quote. The following is a WAG on my part since I really don't know: I think reducing any moisture as was stated is only part of the equation and I think the idea was warmer fluid increses the rate of evaporation of any moisture in the fluid. Remember you don't have to "boil" a liquid just warm it to increase the rate of evaporation. I would agree that there shouldn't be much if any moisture in the ATF, but if there is then higher temps help reduce that moisture. :shrug:

Larry

 

[badford350]

The bypass is a simple pressure relief valve. It opens at about 50 psi regardless of temp.

if this is a case with a clean system 50 psi through math could relate to temp by the fact that the thicker the oil(colder) the more pressure correct?

does any body no what a warm transmission (170) runs for pressure through the cooler?

 

[Racer X]

Nope all I have is what is in that quote. The following is a WAG on my part since I really don't know: I think reducing any moisture as was stated is only part of the equation and I think the idea was warmer fluid increses the rate of evaporation of any moisture in the fluid. Remember you don't have to "boil" a liquid just warm it to increase the rate of evaporation. I would agree that there shouldn't be much if any moisture in the ATF, but if there is then higher temps help reduce that moisture. :shrug:

Larry

Agreed. If you see more on it LMK.

 

[Mark Kovalsky]

Where will a level of moisture to burn off come from? The difference in temps at shutdown may make some condensation or not. Probably on the outside of the case.

As the trans warms air is forced out of the vent, and drawn back in as it cools. Unless you operate the trans in an area with zero humidity you will get some moisture in the trans. If the trans stays cold all the time the moisture will eventually cause a problem.

So wheres the engineer coming up with water and why don't bare metal steel parts inside rust if there is an atf water mix going on?

I've seen inside transmissions that have sat for a while with some moisture and there was some rust on the steel parts.

It takes 220 degrees to boil water. I'm not following that engineers theory relating to transmissions.

It's actually 212F to boil water. Getting the ATF above the boiling point will boil off the water, but getting it up to normal temps (around 170F) will speed up the evaporation of the water.

Is it any clearer now?

PS - I'm the one LarryM quoted above.