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Discussion Starter #1
Hello All,

After a bit of arm twisting from Blue... I'll post my musings on my 1997 F350 truck here on PSN as well. As near as I can tell this truck is pretty well stock... Looks like it may have had a fuel cell in the bed at some point with a line hooked into the front tank, but that is about it. I think I'm the third owner. At this point I have owned the truck for 9 someodd years. At the time I bought it there were 164000 miles on the clock and as of today I have 234800 miles on the truck. My previous truck was an 1987 F250 powered by a 6.9 diesel with 350000 miles on the clock (ZF5 transmission). With the addition of our second kid it was just too small for the family. I have always liked the OBS Fords so I started looking... I passed up a years worth of automatic trucks to finally land one with a manual transmission. The addition of 2 more doors makes driving the truck feel like an elephant so the name Jumbo stuck. The ZF5 470 is better geared than the older ZF5 420, but the truck still lacked the gearing I thought it needed. A couple of months after I bought the truck, I found an ad for dead International t444e motor. The fellow selling the engine was kind enough to separate the SAE 2 flywheel housing adapter needed for any future conversion to a commercial transmission. Original plan was a TTC Eso 7 speed swap. some years ago I pulled a mill I purchased locally home to my place. Truck, trailer and machine was around 29k (yah, I only exceeded the book GVCR by a bit, but come on - on the commerical side the T444e was put in applications up to 60k pounds). As I was just on surface roads it wasn’t too bad other than having to really ride the clutch to get the truck moving and having to go into 4 wheel low (in 2 wheel drive) to back the trailer into the driveway. Well come April 2016 and my dad nails an antelope just outside of Laramie,Wyoming. So I hitch up the ol' gooseneck and head out to retrieve him. All told I was pulling around 15k (Gross around 23K) and trying to keep the truck rolling at a reasonable pace was a bugger… there is a reason that the 97 F350 was only rated for 12k towed weight (and IMO it sits between the engine and rear axle). Needless to say it was tough finding a gear the engine was happy with that didn’t require me revving the engine into the stratosphere (how did Ford come up with the red-line for the 7.3??) to keep the boost up and the truck at a reasonable speed. So, after arriving home I started doing some digging and found that someone had done an Eaton-Fuller RTO 6610 swap in a Dodge Ram. Two weeks of trolling ads later I found a RTO 6610 on Craigslist and the adventure was underway. Two days and 1533 miles later, this was sitting in my garage... Yeah - that is a 1.75 inch input shaft and a 2.25 inch output shaft with twin counter shafts that double the torque capability of the transmission. The open section of the transmission is a 5 speed gear box while the back section contains the high/low gear selector.

Cj
 

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I’ve often thought of doing a similar conversation, I agree 100% on the lack of gearing . However brakes is the biggest determination in GVW , in my opinion .
Cool build I look forward to more pictures!!


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Discussion Starter #3
Longjonsilver,

First off... the transmission has been in the truck for the last 9 months. I completed the build in February and posted it on a forum that seemed to have more of an industrial lean. Blue-Truck-Nut has hinted several times that I should post here to the benefit of PSN (which after thinking about it - seems like a good idea as I haven't seen this done in many Ford trucks).
As to your towing point - while I'd say brakes are important... I'm more of the opinion that it is the nut behind the go-petal that is the determining factor of GVWR. I have seen a few drivers with the new high power Fords, Rams and Duramaxxs (and even semis) towing large loads and tailgating/passing like crazy. I can't help but think if that they would be screwed if the guy in front of them had to stop fast for any reason.. When I pulled the fork lift home in August I settled in a 55 to 63 MPH and just let the folks in a hurry pass me. I was able to maintain a nice hole in front of my rig for maneuvering/stopping/emergency purposes. I'd much rather get home slower and in one piece.

Cj
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Part 2...
It only took me a year and a half to finally get to the point where I was ready to begin the swap.. I found one or two forums discussing Eaton-Fuller swaps that involved re-mating the transfer case to the transmission using a cut down yoke that was then bolted to a coupler that had the mating splines for the transfer case. Not a bad idea, but it would add a considerable amount of length (4+ inches) to the whole transmission/transfer case combination. I knew that some transmission tunnel mods would likely be required, but I was hoping avoid modifying the body supports running under the cab that stiffen the cab. After breaking the nut loose (with a 6 some odd foot cheater bar – the aluminum bar is bolted to the output yoke - There is another one time tool setup for you Blue!), I got to work dismantling the auxiliary transmission case to have a look at the output shaft. The RTO 6610 output shaft sure make the original ZF5 transmission output shaft look puny. Upon initial inspection it looked like the shaft had enough meat that I could cut it down and then re-spline it to fit the transfer case. I measured ten times and cut twice. Here is the test shaft I made out of aluminum.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
As there is a picture limit...
After a bit of work on the lathe and cnc mill (yes that is a poor man’s indexer there on the end) and voila a revised output shaft. I did not surface harden the areas I cut as I would have likely needed to re-heat treat the whole shaft and I was worried about warp-age. The core of the shaft is already strong _ Surface hardening it gives it better wear resistance. Eventually I’ll remake the whole shaft and heat treat and surface harden it.
 

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I’ve used a moly type grease on the splines of a pto to drive a hydraulic dump body pump . Reckon that would be a thing to use if you ever have to pull the transfer case ?
I’ve been in the back box on a few fullers . Good looking transmission. Need more pictures!!!! Faster faster lol !!!

Looks like excellent machining as well .


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Discussion Starter #7
Longjon,

Yes! I got the "Yes, get on with it" picture in my post. The way I put the seals and adaptor together puts the splined output shaft of the transmission and input shaft of the transfer case in the transmission oil. So no need for grease. Pulling the transfer case is a bit of a chore... there wasn't a lot of room for bolts. Three of the transfer case bolts are captive in the adaptor when it is installed. Eaton-Fuller did not set this this transmission up for direct fit with a transfer case. As for the machine work... I do ok. I'm a self taught machinist. This is the machine I used to cut the splines. I pulled it home behind Jumbo years ago. The mill weighs in around 16000#. Old, but functional machine. Random question... who do you use to host your pictures.. I may have to break down and use an online server as this forum seems to be a bit more restrictive on pictures. I'll try to get another section on tonight after the kiddos are in bed.

Cj
 

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I post pictures via the Tapatalk app . Couldn’t tell you how lol . I don’t have access to a desktop or other computer so I use the phone only ...


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Discussion Starter #9
Once I had the splines figured out, it was on the transmission/transfer case adapter. The adapter took a couple of tries as at first glance the bolt pattern on the transfer case appears to be even – but that is most definitely NOT the case on BW transfer cases. This was the first attempt. On the second attempt I also changed the feet on the adapter to mate with the original rear mount. Some of you may notice that the transfer case shown is not the BW 4407 but instead a BW 1356 (taken from my previous 87 F250 may it RIP). Jumbo was still my daily driver at this point so I borrowed the 1356 to fill in as they both share the same bolt pattern.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
With the the shaft finished and the transmission/transfer case adapter done it was time to tear into the truck itself. As the truck is the full size crew cab, I took the front seats out and rolled the carpet back to expose the transmission tunnel. Transfer case out of the way. And finally back to the engine block. The flywheel housing did not fit initially, but hey that is what a sawsall is for.
 

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Really happy to see it up here!

I like the indexer, that's clever. Of course so is a 10 speed married transfer case setup.

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The one picture it wouldn't let me post last round. This is the flywheel housing bolted in place. First time I hoisted the transmission into place I did so without the flywheel and clutch in the way so I didn't have to fight clutch fitment while still figuring out how to install everything. I knew that additional cuts were likely needed in the transmission tunnel and I didn’t want the added complication of trying to center the input shaft more than once. I rolled the transmission under the truck then used an engine hoist to lift it up through the access hole in the tunnel. While I was at it I figured a few upgrades to the petal support were in order. Plastic bushings?? Whose bright idea was that? I wish I had a before picture of the worn out pins and linkages.. it was bad. I’m actually amazed that the truck was still shifting as well as it was. Bronze looks a lot better in there.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Blue,

Still have a bit to upload... I will probably keep Longjon in suspense all weekend (not on purpose of course 0:)). I have a friend (a machinist by trade) who, when he saw my indexer said something alone the lines of "well now you're a real machinist." I took that as an awesome complement.

Cj
 

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With the transmission mounted it was time for additional sawsall surgery again. In order to maintain approximately the same drive line pathway the transmission hump needed a 2 inch lift at the back end. Cut lines.. Free at last.. Transmission in its final placement, the transfer case fit just right. Top of the transfer case still cleared the cab frame work by about 1.5 inches. Overall the driveline flange is about 8 inches further back.
 

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I’m in my chair reading this so I’ll be in suspense for a few more hours . Tomorrow I’ll be putting injector cups in my work truck . I’ll be doing a write up .....
so you’ll have to get the whole build posted in the next two hours lol


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Sorry about all the posts. It seems that PSN has a 5 pic per post limit. I'm trying to keep the pictures with their associated explanations.

As luck would have it there were six holes already in the frame right were I could use them to support the new rear mount. New rear mount tack welded and ready for test fitting. Back up front.. not enough room for the throw out arm.. well as always a sawsall is a man's best friend.
 

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Longjon - I have been following the progress on your truck.. I'll do my best.

Time for exhaust work.. The prior owner of the truck put a 3 inch round exhaust in the truck which didn’t fit with the new flywheel housing. I lost a little over 0.5 inches^2 of area going to the oval exhaust, but it did fit between the body and transmission without any additional massaging (prior owner had done some sawsall/hammer massaging to fit the 3 inch exhaust). Curving the oval lines around the flywheel housing and transmission proved to be a test of patience (cut, tack, cut, tack repeat..). As I had the back of the engine exposed, I figured I’d add bungs to each of the up-pipes for the future addition of 2 thermocouples (one per side) to monitor pre-turbo EGTs. The Tee also allows me to watch the pressure driving the turbo.
 

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With the exhaust down pipe fitted I started in on the final assembly. A new flywheel, commercial clutch and pressure plate ready to fit. Sure looks nice in there.
 

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With the clutch and flywheel in place getting the transmission back in was a bit trickier.. with the exhaust down pipe dangling and the engine tilted down as far as I could get it, I managed to slide the transmission up and into place. I used 3 10 inch long 3/8 bolts with the heads removed as guides. I really dislike the plastic friction plate centering tool (next time I do this I’ll go buy a spare input shaft to use as the centering tool) as the first try I couldn’t get the transmission to line up with the pilot bearing. After about an hour and a half of fighting (this is at midnight in the middle of December outside mind you) the alignment in the cold I got the bright idea to lean on the clutch throw out arm to pull the clutch in.. As soon as the pressure came off and the friction plate was allowed to slip, the housings came together and I was in business. As my transmission to transfer case adapter makes bolting the 2 together difficult I pre-assembled them prior to mating the transmission to the engine (sorry no pictures.. my photographer didn’t want to join me in the freezing cold – this happened over Thanksgiving 2018). After raising the transmission into position I added the new rear member and bolted it all together. I also put the original rear member back in as extra insurance.
 

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