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Discussion Starter #21
My secondary fuel bowl is deleted and an aeromotive fuel pressure regulator in its place. It does have a gauge but is underhood. I dont have the hose to run it out of the hood to monitor while driving. I am going to leave the truck sit so I dont ruin the injectors although im worried I may already be past the point of no return with them.
 

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Is it 1/8 pipe? Use a long grease gun hose and tape it to your hood.

You could have a friend look at the guage while you power brake the truck, build about 10-15 psi.

Yeah don't drive it till you check the fuel pressure, also don't drive the truck low on fuel either.
 
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Discussion Starter #23
I believe it is 1/8 npt. I may have to try that one out.

Yeah i never run any of my vehicles under a quarter of a tank usually.
 

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ForScan will reliably detect a contribution code on an offending injector. I just noticed that earlier you posted that the issue went away after an oil change and then returned. Sorry, but I missed that earlier.

What oil are you using? Sometimes the oil side of the injectors (spool valve typically) can act up. This is called "stiction". Some people have had luck with stiction (oil) additives, and some people haven't. If you have a cylinder contribution code, a stiction oil additive might be worth a try.

You also mentioned the "buzz" test. ForScan will enable you to run that test. Essentially it means that the FICM is issuing the command to activate the coils on the spool valve for each injector (in sequential order). Each injector will buzz when that test is conducted. If you fail to hear every injector buzz, then that means that you most likely have an issue with the spool valve on that injector.
 

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Also, I noticed you mentioned the turbo ......

The radial play (up and down) tolerance is 0.5mm (0.02in).

Anytime injector issues are suspected, keep an eye on the oil level. It is possible to get fuel in the oil from a bad injector. If that happens, the oil level will rise. Oil dilution with fuel can be particularly hard on turbo bearings.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Yeah I will probably end up at some point ordering the OBD adapter and downloading forscan onto my computer. Just dont think it will be anytime probably this month. maybe here within the next few I am not sure depends on how things go with work. As far as it going away and then coming back, it definitely did have a SLIGHT miss to it only when COLD but it was never anything comparable to what it is now, and not all the time either, which is odd to me.

I am using Rotella T6 15w40 with Hot shots stiction eliminator. Yes, I have read a lot on the stiction issues and was what I was thinking was going on since I bought the truck up until I did the oil change, reason for the stiction eliminator. But now I'm not so sure that, thats what it is, but I'm also sort of lost on what it is as well so...

Yeah Ive been pretty cautious of checking oil level since the change and I have not noticed any increase or decrease in oil level. I'm surprised that there is a tolerance on up and down play. I was always under the impression that you should have absolutley NO up and down play but very minor in and out play was usually acceptable. Maybe the turbo is fine? But it just feels like a lot to me.
 

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I want to apologize in advance for what feels like a super long post as I was writing it.

Alright to start off I will give a run down of the truck to the best of my knowledge. I am by no means an expert on diesels or any one thing in particular but I am not engine/vehicle illiterate. I also did not build this truck so anything mentioned or aftermarket is either hearsay from previous owner or unknown to me. The truck is a Feb of 2003 built F350. It has the ZF6 transmission. The engine, which I was told was replaced with a junkyard engine is also tagged as an 03 model year. The engine has supposedly been studded, and EGR is deleted. It has an S&B intake, and what I was told to be an "aftermarket compressor wheel" which I am assuming is something along the lines of a wicked wheel but I dont remember being told that specifically. It also has a full 5in MBRP straight exhaust no cat no muffler. It has an Aeromotive A1000 lift pump with aftermarket regulator and the secondary fuel bowl has been blocked off. From what I can tell unless aeromotive has changed their design over the years it looks to be a "homemade" setup and not a kit that you would normally find from Aeromotive/FASS/Airdog. I was told that it has Warren Diesel injectors but I was not informed on the details of what specific injectors they are which in some cases poses a problem to me. Unrelated to the situation I was told it had a Southbend stage 2 clutch. The truck is run by an SCT tuner on Warren Diesel Injection tunes. Any other info needed that I may have left out on accident please ask and I will do my best to find the answer or look. I apologive if I left anything pertinent out.

Now some backstory and the problems...

I Purchased this truck about 2 years ago with no known issues other than transmisson related issues that I was willing to deal with. The truck ran good when test drove and purchased. Somewhere along the way that I cannot seem to reference, it developed a slight miss when cold that would go away once warmed up to operating temperature. I dismissed this maybe maybe to my demise. About a month ago now the truck shut off on me and left me stranded along side the road. I found the problem to be a burnt power wire to my lift pump coming from the relay. The relay when installed was never secured and I assumed the wiring had got against the brake master cylinder and had arced causing this issue but Im not ruling it out to be unrelated. So I fixed the wiring issue and drove it home now problem. At this point I realized that I had not changed the oil in this truck or fuel filters since I had bought it, mostly due to the fact that up until recently this truck had never been my daily driver and rarely used unless I was towing or hauling something. So I had not put a lot of miles or hours on the truck. I Replaced the Fuel filters both in the stock pump housing (Motorcraft) and also on the lift pump setup (Caterpillar). I replaced the oil filter (motorcraft) and found that it had previously had a Wix? possibly filter installed that was made into the filter cap. I had to purchase a cheap aftermarket (Advance Auto) oil filter cap in order to use the motorcraft filter and get the truck back on the road. The truck was filled with Rotella T6 15w40 and hot shots stiction eliminator. I primed the fuel system per recommendations read online cycle key three times for 30 seconds before I attempted to start the truck. All said and done the truck was running better than ever. I drove it for a few weeks at this point being my DD without issue, not even when cold. I had been running the truck on the WDI race tune, because I had been told by previous owner that it got better fuel economy suprisingly while on it, although I can personally say I noticed a ton of difference between it and the street tune economy wise. I do not beat on nor abuse the truck but I do not necessarily baby it either. So I filled the tank at the same fuel station that I do on a pretty regular basis. I returned the truck to the street tune in order to compare Mileage now that the oil and fuel filters had been changed to see if their were any difference since this routine maintenance. Shortly after, my miss returned. Basically the truck under normal cruising conditions "bucks/stutters. It seems to clear up under WOT about half of the time. the other half of the time it will still get up and go but you can notice a notable change in exhaust note. It just doesnt seem to have the "bark" that this normally has. and in some instances still breaks up/misses. As another symptom I have also noticed on occasion that the truck will backfire out of the exhaust. It will do it either on a shift or will do it while sittin idling. When it backfires on an idle it will throw a puff of black smoke. The truck obviously being tuned bit and not stock does smoke but so far through everything nothing that I would necessarily call excessive.

What Ive done so far (Not much)

So I have pulled all of the injector plugs and checked the harness's and have not found anything wore threw/burnt etc.
I pulled the intercooler piping from the cold side and realigned/inspected the silicone couplings for boost leaks. Only because of the way they looked on the piping not necessarily because I thought it was related. I did not find any excess oil inside of the turbo housing or the piping. I did however find that my turbo does have a very small (1/16"-1/8" Maybe?) amount of up and down shaft play. No in and out shaft play. This obviously will need addressed but not sure if related?
I have drained both fuel/water seperators and found nothing abnormal, in hopes of bad fuel. I am about halfway through my second tank since this started.
I have pulled the ICP Sensor plug to see if that was the culprit to no avail. I tried this both on the race tune and street tune. truck would not run and will not run correctly reverted back to stock tuning.

I do not have the capabilities or the special IPR (trick?) harness in order to check for HPO leaks. at this point I am assuming one of three things. The IPR, Bad injector/s, HPO leak.

Now for some numbers. I dont have any cold numbers only hot that I took today on my way home from work. All number come from the SCT tuner

Hot/cruising
IPR duty cycle: .25
ICP: 1200psi
Boost:4-5lb
Injection Pulse Width:1.12
EGTs were around 450F

WOT
IPR:.76
ICP:3800psi
Boost:25lbs
IPW:1.75
EGT:800F

Idle
IPR:.25
ICP:1090
Boost:-.30
IPW:.78
EGT:350F

On an end note my FICM normally sees 47.50-48v and has started to occasionally drop to 47 but never lower. it does not drop when starting. and my batter see a normal 12ish volts KOEO 13ish at start and 13.5-14 once the alternator starts to charge. Im trying to be as transparent and infomative as possible while trying to remember everything that I possibly can that would pertain to this issue. I am sorry if I have forgot anything especially something simple. If any further info is needed ask and I will do my best to get the information. Im trying to not spend a pile of money right now with work being slowed down due to all that is going on so I do not want to just start throwing parts at it. OH and the Tuner and also a generica code reader does not shown ANY codes whatsoever not a misfire, nothing. But the tuner did throw a code for low ICP sensor voltage when I unplugged it to check and see if that was possibly the issue. Thanks in advance for any help it is much appreciated!!!! This is my only vehicle for the time being and my DD to and from work. I also will be posting on multiple forums just so the guys that are members of multiple forums have a heads up and dont reread the same post a million times.
I want to apologize in advance for what feels like a super long post as I was writing it.

Alright to start off I will give a run down of the truck to the best of my knowledge. I am by no means an expert on diesels or any one thing in particular but I am not engine/vehicle illiterate. I also did not build this truck so anything mentioned or aftermarket is either hearsay from previous owner or unknown to me. The truck is a Feb of 2003 built F350. It has the ZF6 transmission. The engine, which I was told was replaced with a junkyard engine is also tagged as an 03 model year. The engine has supposedly been studded, and EGR is deleted. It has an S&B intake, and what I was told to be an "aftermarket compressor wheel" which I am assuming is something along the lines of a wicked wheel but I dont remember being told that specifically. It also has a full 5in MBRP straight exhaust no cat no muffler. It has an Aeromotive A1000 lift pump with aftermarket regulator and the secondary fuel bowl has been blocked off. From what I can tell unless aeromotive has changed their design over the years it looks to be a "homemade" setup and not a kit that you would normally find from Aeromotive/FASS/Airdog. I was told that it has Warren Diesel injectors but I was not informed on the details of what specific injectors they are which in some cases poses a problem to me. Unrelated to the situation I was told it had a Southbend stage 2 clutch. The truck is run by an SCT tuner on Warren Diesel Injection tunes. Any other info needed that I may have left out on accident please ask and I will do my best to find the answer or look. I apologive if I left anything pertinent out.

Now some backstory and the problems...

I Purchased this truck about 2 years ago with no known issues other than transmisson related issues that I was willing to deal with. The truck ran good when test drove and purchased. Somewhere along the way that I cannot seem to reference, it developed a slight miss when cold that would go away once warmed up to operating temperature. I dismissed this maybe maybe to my demise. About a month ago now the truck shut off on me and left me stranded along side the road. I found the problem to be a burnt power wire to my lift pump coming from the relay. The relay when installed was never secured and I assumed the wiring had got against the brake master cylinder and had arced causing this issue but Im not ruling it out to be unrelated. So I fixed the wiring issue and drove it home now problem. At this point I realized that I had not changed the oil in this truck or fuel filters since I had bought it, mostly due to the fact that up until recently this truck had never been my daily driver and rarely used unless I was towing or hauling something. So I had not put a lot of miles or hours on the truck. I Replaced the Fuel filters both in the stock pump housing (Motorcraft) and also on the lift pump setup (Caterpillar). I replaced the oil filter (motorcraft) and found that it had previously had a Wix? possibly filter installed that was made into the filter cap. I had to purchase a cheap aftermarket (Advance Auto) oil filter cap in order to use the motorcraft filter and get the truck back on the road. The truck was filled with Rotella T6 15w40 and hot shots stiction eliminator. I primed the fuel system per recommendations read online cycle key three times for 30 seconds before I attempted to start the truck. All said and done the truck was running better than ever. I drove it for a few weeks at this point being my DD without issue, not even when cold. I had been running the truck on the WDI race tune, because I had been told by previous owner that it got better fuel economy suprisingly while on it, although I can personally say I noticed a ton of difference between it and the street tune economy wise. I do not beat on nor abuse the truck but I do not necessarily baby it either. So I filled the tank at the same fuel station that I do on a pretty regular basis. I returned the truck to the street tune in order to compare Mileage now that the oil and fuel filters had been changed to see if their were any difference since this routine maintenance. Shortly after, my miss returned. Basically the truck under normal cruising conditions "bucks/stutters. It seems to clear up under WOT about half of the time. the other half of the time it will still get up and go but you can notice a notable change in exhaust note. It just doesnt seem to have the "bark" that this normally has. and in some instances still breaks up/misses. As another symptom I have also noticed on occasion that the truck will backfire out of the exhaust. It will do it either on a shift or will do it while sittin idling. When it backfires on an idle it will throw a puff of black smoke. The truck obviously being tuned bit and not stock does smoke but so far through everything nothing that I would necessarily call excessive.

What Ive done so far (Not much)

So I have pulled all of the injector plugs and checked the harness's and have not found anything wore threw/burnt etc.
I pulled the intercooler piping from the cold side and realigned/inspected the silicone couplings for boost leaks. Only because of the way they looked on the piping not necessarily because I thought it was related. I did not find any excess oil inside of the turbo housing or the piping. I did however find that my turbo does have a very small (1/16"-1/8" Maybe?) amount of up and down shaft play. No in and out shaft play. This obviously will need addressed but not sure if related?
I have drained both fuel/water seperators and found nothing abnormal, in hopes of bad fuel. I am about halfway through my second tank since this started.
I have pulled the ICP Sensor plug to see if that was the culprit to no avail. I tried this both on the race tune and street tune. truck would not run and will not run correctly reverted back to stock tuning.

I do not have the capabilities or the special IPR (trick?) harness in order to check for HPO leaks. at this point I am assuming one of three things. The IPR, Bad injector/s, HPO leak.

Now for some numbers. I dont have any cold numbers only hot that I took today on my way home from work. All number come from the SCT tuner

Hot/cruising
IPR duty cycle: .25
ICP: 1200psi
Boost:4-5lb
Injection Pulse Width:1.12
EGTs were around 450F

WOT
IPR:.76
ICP:3800psi
Boost:25lbs
IPW:1.75
EGT:800F

Idle
IPR:.25
ICP:1090
Boost:-.30
IPW:.78
EGT:350F

On an end note my FICM normally sees 47.50-48v and has started to occasionally drop to 47 but never lower. it does not drop when starting. and my batter see a normal 12ish volts KOEO 13ish at start and 13.5-14 once the alternator starts to charge. Im trying to be as transparent and infomative as possible while trying to remember everything that I possibly can that would pertain to this issue. I am sorry if I have forgot anything especially something simple. If any further info is needed ask and I will do my best to get the information. Im trying to not spend a pile of money right now with work being slowed down due to all that is going on so I do not want to just start throwing parts at it. OH and the Tuner and also a generica code reader does not shown ANY codes whatsoever not a misfire, nothing. But the tuner did throw a code for low ICP sensor voltage when I unplugged it to check and see if that was possibly the issue. Thanks in advance for any help it is much appreciated!!!! This is my only vehicle for the time being and my DD to and from work. I also will be posting on multiple forums just so the guys that are members of multiple forums have a heads up and dont reread the same post a million times.
This reply post will surpass your post for length !!!! First off unless I missed something here, from what I am reading here, you say EGR delete which tells me 6.0 L. However since you indicate 2003 I think 7.3L at first which unless is a Calif truck, no EGR to delete. You do not indicate production date unless I missed that, I have not read everything you posted, boring after a while, but you are thorough, you mention stiction which is a common issue with the 7.3. You also mention the cold start issue. That is a good indication of clearance issues in the top of the injector. The armature plate under the coil cap of the 7.3, it is a different design for 6.0 but the operation principle is still the same, they just run at higher pressure and your mention of injector coil drive Voltage says 6.0 along with the pressure readings you posted. Still in all, the cold start stutter is the same character. Just because someone tells you it had injectors installed means nothing, clearances can still be out of tolerance after time has passed. Pull them and have them tested. I did a 7.3 not long ago and installed a full set of reman injectors in this engine which was a complete overhaul on account of bad pistons and injectors started dropping out and failing within a matter of weeks after getting the engine running. Also it is possible to have valve spring troubles which would cause exhaust tone changes and engine temperature will DEFINITELY effect this. 6.0 have twice as many springs in a comparable space to the 7.3 and that means they have to be smaller then the 7.3. There is a lot of heat in there and heat kills springs! I have seen a lot of engine that would start up and run perfect cold and go to crap from there, especially when the oil pressure is low before the pump builds up, after the first few seconds or running they would start to drop cylinders consistantly rolling from one cylinder to another dropping half of them in the firing order and so on. Cold oil is thick and since these engines have hydraulic tappets, when the oil is cold it can override spring tension and hold valves off seats causing misfires and backfire which tells me an exhaust spring is a good place to start looking, at idle. You would not notice is so much driving. You give a lot of info and that is good but because you wrote so detailed, it is hard to remember what you did write. Here is my take from your post. Since you mentioned FICM instead of IDM, you could very well have issues developing there. Even here, new or reman means nothing, 6.0 FICM's are a nightmare, I didn't see any mention of the updated high pressure manifold system mentioned which is 6.0. But the pressure reads posted do not indicate any problems there. Clearance you mentioned in the turbo wheel is a disaster waiting to happen. NO movement front to back and the less up or down the better. If you have up and down, you need to pull that turbo and look at the exhaust wheel AND the comp wheel to see if it is contacting turbine housing and or compressor housing. By the way as I go through this thread I see 6.0 all over. No problem, engines are engines and diesels are what they are. If there is an engine service lamp at all there will be codes and codes will send to the right place to start looking for trouble. You could have a broken valve spring somewhere which may be the stumble and the boost pressure issue I caught would be from the turbo clearance. Either way fix the known issues first and start looking for ANYTHING under the covers, and fix that too while you're in there. I got to say this, I run my own shop and for anyone to tell you this or that is the reason for bad performance over the phone or internet is a crap shoot. There is only one way to get a concise diagnoses and that is for a mechanic that knows what he is working on to determine what and why it is doing what it is doing period. Let me tell of just one case I dealt with years ago. I guy goes into a parts store wanting to by a set of plug wires and plugs for a 79 AMC 360,( those V8's where notorious for running hot heads, also for marginal valves springs) I listened to him telling the parts guy that he had taken the truck to how many tune up shops and doing the same thing the previous shop had done and not fixing the problem, definition of insanity, telling the guy they didn't know what or why it did it. I stepped up and told him to come see me and I would show him why it ran like it did. I also said if he wasn't convince, he would not get a labor charge, after 15 minutes to remove one valve cover he was convinced he had bad valve springs. We decided to just build a new and better super hopped up bigger engine for the truck and he never regretted spending & 7000 for it either! It turned out to be a 407 inch replacement that in a short box 4x4 Jeep pickup that would outrun a Jag XJ12 and run the 1/4 in 13 seconds get better fuel mileage that stock 360. And it made a lot more noise going down the road which always got lots of attention. Everyone wanted to see under the hood. Over the years I have seen countless Fords that suffered from the same condition, start fine and go bad as soon as the oil pressure came up. I have seen numerous Diesels Fords in particular, 7.3 that where hard to start cold and would fart for awhile till some heat built in them. Go straight to the clearance issue for the coil armature and piston in the top of the injector ! .004 to .007 under the plated and at least .014 above the plate to the bottom of the coil. If you don't have clearance under the plate oil will not flow into the chamber to pop the injector till it thins out and can flow with less effort. Not sure what the 6.0 needs since I haven't worked on one that deep yet but my time will come and I will not be afraid of it like so many other shops are. Just looked at your scanner readings again and they look within range so! Here you are, eliminate hard part possiblities first, valve spring issue, have the injectors tested. Any good shop will tell you to TEST DON"T GUESS. !No PCM codes? OK, go on to eliminate injector mechanical, issues! Fuel pressure good across the board? OK move on, not OK, find reason and fix, so you don't have injector issues because of that. Oil pressure looks good so far, no need to worry about HPOil manifold seals, but since injectors are under those,buy the tools and just upgrade the system if it hasn't been done yet, and BE careful replacing these tubes with O rings, they can get cut easily as you install them, you cannot use enough lube here when re installing them. Last 6.0 I worked on was an 05 a few months ago with less then 60k on it and it was ready for it. Pressure would drop low at idle and engine would stumble, PCM would attempt to save but it would stall anyway. Had a faulty ICP sensor also. New sensor, still stall but readings from scanner looked better. Turned attention to FICM, found intermittent lose of CANbus link. New FICM and all was right with the world. By now nearly every FICM out there is a reman. for these trucks with many engineering issues. This is why we are all missing 7.3's. 6.4 was a better design but still lacking, 6.7 comes along and we are happier with dependability but cursing fuel consumption, which is why so many Ford owners went to Dodge for a Cummins, OK, so now Ford has a PCM update to improve fuel issues. Still can't compete with the old 5.9 Cummins, forget the 6.7 Cummins or Ford in heavier duty trucks, half the mileage of the Cummins which is still worse then the old 5.9s but that's what happens when you pump fuel into the exhaust for the DEF. Someone told me a while back just let the 6.0's find a place to die and leave em there. Someone else says the cure for 6.0's and 6.4's and 6.7's see 7.3. I DO NOT agree with that since I have learned my way into these and can't wait for the next one to come my way now. The bottom line is you have someone else's headache, you either fix it or pass it on at a lose to someone else to deal with. Up side of this is if you get into it you will learn what it takes to keep it going and will be able to pass along what you know to the next guy. I've been doing this for over 45 years and will never know everything about everything, just enough to figure out what, why and how. What I have been into which is a lot from model airplane engines to Big rigs with Cat engines, Cummins and Detroits, Mercedees, Internationals of many models and sizes, ag tractors of various makes and models, everything is basic, just looks different outside but works the same inside. There are books and now videos to walk you through everything. Hail the info age. You have checked some things and believe you can eliminate those issue so I will restate. It is not an easy task to get under the valve covers but please do and eliminate a valve spring issue. The cab being lifted a little will make for a much easier job of getting heads off if need be. So if studs have been installed be very careful you do not scratch or gouge the gasket surface, remover as many studs as you can before lifting the head from block, if you have to go this far. Valve springs can be replaced with head bolted down but it can also be a tricky task. piston for each hole must be at top cent before you remove the spring retainers and locks. Good bit of advise is find and befriend someone that has been into these and have a little help.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Okay so I got a chance to check running fuel pressure today. Cold start cold idle crusing wot hot idle everything sits consistently at 65psi no more no less, gauge has absolutely no movement in it in regards to throttle position or engine rpm, so I'm assuming all roads point to bad injector? Or any other suggestions? tests? Aside from getting the forscan and doing the buzz test and checking more numbers?
 

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Did you ever get forscan and a bluetooth/wifi adapter?

I reread your whole thread, noticed you have a manual. My guess is a bad injector but I don't like throwing money at things especially a 6.0, so the best next option if this was my truck is a cylinder contribution test. I have not used forscan but it has it, second option would be a dealer running a cylinder contribution test which is expensive ($200).

A nearly free option and my favorite (but it's not always accurate) is to run the truck, hard. Get the heaviest trailer and tow it up a hill watching boost psi and checking for smoke out the exhaust. If a injector is out the truck can't boost correctly and you will get too much fuel (black smoke), too little (white smoke) or too much boost 20-25+ or too little (5-7). If it passes the heavy test, your still stuck. It if fails this test hopefully it throws a injector code and you know which one.

These trucks will hide a bad injector with normal driving or low loads, but not when you push it.
 
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