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Discussion Starter #1
Shortly after installing 190mm injectors my truck would not start hot. Later I figured out my engine oil was severly diluted with diesel. Truck has now been parked for nearly a year and Im piecing it back together. I was afraid to install the injectors again and risk diluting the fuel because I had no idea were the leak originally came from. So I decided to install them in a cylinder head with new O-rings and feed them fuel with my Air-dog 2 while the head was still sitting on a bench. What I found was shocking. 7 of 8 injectors leak fuel externally from the body of the injector.

Has anyone seen injectors leak from here before? The picture with the screwdriver points to the location all the injectors leak from. They all seam to leak at different rates. There is only 1200 miles on these injectors after they were built! Where would be the best place to send them to go through them, I no longer trust the vendor I purchased them from.

Pictures by Dieseldan31 - Photobucket
 

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Reppin' the 6.4L
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LOL


But if they are ours give us a call. We stand behind our products.
MOST of your products... I have your EGR delete and I love it. You shipped quickly, and it fit perfectly. Been running it for 30K with no issues whatsoever.

But I have heard of more than one person being left with 8 paperweights on their desk because your injectors did not work properly at all. Oh, and a engine being completely ruined by some of your 155's, and was replaced with a new engine from Ford by the owner at the tune of $10,000.

On the other hand, I have heard of plenty of people running your injectors without any issues. It's about 50/50.

I personally have no issue with you guys, you treated me great during my purchase from y'all. But I won't be buying any injectors from you guys simply because of the reviews on the forums.

Of course, y'all may have improved your injector design since then, and improved your customer service as well. But based on the past, you do stand behind your products, except your 6.0L injectors.
 

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MOST of your products... I have your EGR delete and I love it. You shipped quickly, and it fit perfectly. Been running it for 30K with no issues whatsoever.

But I have heard of more than one person being left with 8 paperweights on their desk because your injectors did not work properly at all. Oh, and a engine being completely ruined by some of your 155's, and was replaced with a new engine from Ford by the owner at the tune of $10,000.

On the other hand, I have heard of plenty of people running your injectors without any issues. It's about 50/50.

I personally have no issue with you guys, you treated me great during my purchase from y'all. But I won't be buying any injectors from you guys simply because of the reviews on the forums.

Of course, y'all may have improved your injector design since then, and improved your customer service as well. But based on the past, you do stand behind your products, except your 6.0L injectors.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Yes, I did buy the injectors from RCD, in the first week driving one blew a tip off so I pulled the head again to dig the injector tip out of the piston and bought another 190 injector. Shorlty after I went overseas, this is when the oil became diluted, the wife was driving it unitl it she noticed it was getting harder and harder to start and then the truck was parked unitl I came home again. I sure hope the bearings in the bottom end did not get damaged from the diluted oil, I would not be surprised if I have an early bearing failure. I drained over 20 litres of oil from the engine so there was 6+ litres of diesel in the oil.

Im glad to see that RCD posted a response because I did buy the injectors from them, if you guys (RCD) are willing to get these things fixed I would really appreciate it. I have three 6.0s and so far my biggest regret has been these injectors. I did not mention your name in my initial post because Im not out to bash, just wanted to know if this has happened to anyone else and what needs to be done to get it fixed. I would actually like to enjoy driving my truck again, it has been an ordament in front of the house for way too long.

From now on when I install injectors I think Im going to turn the fuel pump on and confirm that none of them leak externally, I dont want to risk ruining an engine ever again.
 

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Reppin' the 6.4L
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The injectors Blake is talking about I actually knew nothing of the failure until he sent me a link. I built those injectors myself with the customer standing next to me watching. The injectors worked flawlessly for nearly two years. That type of injector failure has happened alot. (injector tip cracking) It happens with stock injectors alike. We just put a piston and two new valves in a engine last week from this. It was a stock injector truck. Half the nozzle came apart. Actually split down the middle.

Keep in mind, we sold over 300 sets of injectors last year. We are approaching 400 this year, that is over 3,000 injectors. When you are talking that number you will have failures. Its inevitable. It does not come down to assembly issues or quality. It just happens.

Blake was quoted saying "Of course, y'all may have improved your injector design since then"

For the record..

All of us use the same vendor for the new EDM`d oversize nozzles.

Casserly
Industrial Injection
Elite
Hypermax
Innovative (when he installs larger nozzles)

The list can go on and on..

Anytime you elevate injection pressures you risk this. So, that being said anyone running a SCT from a tuner who uses the SCT advantage software values will have this. That is because the transfer function of the ICP tables lies to the PCM. This causes highly elevated injection pressures and eventual failures. The tips are rated for 24-26K psi. With these values it can approach and exceed 30K PSI! Add the brittleness of a hardened material and pressure spikes and BOOM you have a broken tip.

But again, needless to say there will always be failures. The guy who sells the most parts will get the brunt of the bashing. Its the law of averages. I feel we make one of the best parts on the market. This goes unsaid when Eric from innovative runs our parts on his truck, Craig from MPD runs our injectors. I actually sold Craig injectors back in 2006-07 for his first build. Matt from Spartan Diesel uses ours in his 6.0. Even Shawn Ellerton is switching to us. Results and numbers is what counts and we will continue to offer only the best product. We now build new plungers and barrels in stock sizes and the hybrid version (race only)

We used to reuse borderline parts to try to keep costs down for customers but we have stopped that practice. Even if the customer is upset because he cant understand why we want to replace a questionable plunger and barrel or any part for that manner. At the end of the day he is happy because his valve covers will stay on for a long time with no issues.

The Hartridge flow bench has been invaluable, it has let us fine tune the nozzle sizing. Offering the best atomization in the spray chamber, along with lower EGT`s, better mileage and top notch performance when the hammer is down. I am sure all the vendors using the nozzles have seen a plethora of sizes come available. This is because we order them in huge quantity's built to our specifications. Those parts would have never hit the market without our R&D time. We also share this information with Eric and other tuners to help them fine tune the vehicles based on our flow rates at said injection pulse width. I personally have came a long way custom tuning these trucks in the last year with the addition of the flow bench. We can now work of calculations as opposed to guesses.

But anyhow, there will always be people who have personal preference. Thats why we share information. The end goal is to keep the HEUI injected truck in the same ballpark as the common rail engines. Its hard for me to come on here and get bashed by people who have never used our product. They have no idea the hours that have went into delivering the best product we have available. Hell, at Scheid a customer put down 610rwhp with one of our 68mm powermaxes and 205`s. I think thats great news for the 6.0 guys. A truck you can drive, tow and still mop a hot tuned Dmax or 6.4 for that matter. That just goes to show, when you build the turbo, the injectors and tune the truck all in house you hold all pieces of the puzzle and can be assured they will fall together for the end user.

That being said, with this new start I hope you guys understand where I am coming from. We are all here to keep the 6.0 competitive.

Thanks!
 

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Reppin' the 6.4L
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Awesome to hear Josh... You have educated me even further on these engines, and I want to apologize for any misleading or incorrect information I have provided.

It seems as though you guys are wanting a fresh start, and based on this last post, you guys have got a fresh start with me. I look forward to seeing the results of the fine tuning, and I just may be giving you guys a call very soon... :D
 

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Oh, and a engine being completely ruined by some of your 155's, and was replaced with a new engine from Ford by the owner at the tune of $10,000.
The injectors Blake is talking about I actually knew nothing of the failure until he sent me a link. I built those injectors myself with the customer standing next to me watching. The injectors worked flawlessly for nearly two years. That type of injector failure has happened alot. (injector tip cracking)
I don't post on here much but read quite a bit.. Obviously, I can't be sure the above quotes are about my engine but they probably are, since the circumstances fit mine exactly (except my injectors lasted 15 months not nearly two years).

When I first posted on TDG about what happened to that engine, I had people commenting that I got the injectors from RCD. As much as I did not want to cause Josh problems, I couldn't exactly deny it, since I had made several posts on TDG about them. I said then and say now, I do not blame RCD for the failure. When my engine failed, I did some research on what causes a tip to come off and based on what I learned, I knew it was not something Josh did because I knew he bought the tips from a third party and that most injector builders are getting their tips from the same place. Blaming him would have been out of line, IMHO.

Even though many people felt I should have contacted him and try to get him to help with the cost of the replacement engine, I never bothered Josh with the details of the failure because I am a firm believer that if you play, you need to be prepared to pay. Just as I believe asking Ford to cover a failure caused by some aftermarket part I installed would be wrong, asking Josh to help pay for something that was out of his control would not have been the right thing to do either.
 

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It's your truck Chuck. I promise I'm no poet.. Haha. I was actually going to call and check in with you last week but got tied up. We are in the process of putting up a new building. The zoning, estimates etc have been keeping me stupid busy. I am sorry to hear about the truck. But freak accidents do occur. Like I said, it's inevitable. Feel free to give me a ring sometime chuck.
 

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Well, Josh, I certainly hope you've learned something. For you, it was either saying bye-bye to your business, or learn from your mistakes. I'm glad it was the latter. I just wish I had come along after your claim to have gotten your act together. Doesn't really matter though. I know you'll never get any of my business and I'm really o.k. knowing you don't give a ####.
 

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The tips are rated for 24-26K psi. With these values it can approach and exceed 30K PSI!
Something about Josh's post on nozzles cracking kept puzzling me. I finally figured out what it was (I guess I am a little slow on the uptake today).. It was the above quote.

According to the 6.0 bible, the intensifier piston increases the fuel pressure 7.1 times that of the ICP pressure. The bible also says HPO system's relief valve opens at 4000psi. At 4000psi, the fuel pressure at the tip would be 28.4K. This brings me to two questions:

1) Why would tips be made that are not rated for at least the max pressure that even a stock truck could produce?

2) How is tuning taking the pressure past the point where the relief valve opens? (To get to 30Kpsi, the ICP would have to be 4225).

Again, I am not taking a shot a Josh in this. He doesn't make the tips.
 

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Something about Josh's post on nozzles cracking kept puzzling me. I finally figured out what it was (I guess I am a little slow on the uptake today).. It was the above quote.

According to the 6.0 bible, the intensifier piston increases the fuel pressure 7.1 times that of the ICP pressure. The bible also says HPO system's relief valve opens at 4000psi. At 4000psi, the fuel pressure at the tip would be 28.4K. This brings me to two questions:

1) Why would tips be made that are not rated for at least the max pressure that even a stock truck could produce?

2) How is tuning taking the pressure past the point where the relief valve opens? (To get to 30Kpsi, the ICP would have to be 4225).

Again, I am not taking a shot a Josh in this. He doesn't make the tips.
I wondered this myself. With tuning, my truck makes 4000 psi easily, in fact I think I've seen 4200 on AE datalogs. I think (could be wrong) that the injector modifications made to increase their volume results in a lower pressure ratio than the stock ratio of 7, so that could be part of it.

Also, I was curious what the stock tips were rated for. With smaller holes leaving more material in the tip, I think it would be higher.
 
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