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Discussion Starter #1
anyone lookin to donate some junk? i am working on a new intake idea using a common plenum to feed both heads. it will take alot of work to make a working prototype and get the bugs worked out, but once i get a design that has the best gains i will build a pattern and have them casted. i am looking for a junk block, i.e. missing pieces from a thrown rod, as long as its good from the cam up it doesnt matter. also need a set of heads, whether they are cracked doesnt matter. don't need valves, rockers, or springs. whoever does donate will get a intake manifold free of charge, if they do go into production. this, as far as i know has never been done.

on a side note, anyone have a pic of the intake runners on the heads?
 

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Just in case you didn't know, if you make a 1 piece intake that bolts to both heads then you will start having issues when people deck the block and heads to clean up the surfaces. A few thousanths clean up on each surface isn't that big of a deal but if people get to taking .010" to .015" off both the head and block deck surface that will start getting the heads sitting just enough lower that you could have fit up issues. This can be resolved by machining material off of the 1 piece intake that you make up.

This is a somewhat normal routine for hi perf machine shops but not every bohunk machinist or "PSD mod installer" will think about this.
(I'm not talking about you here, I'm talking about your potential customers.)
 

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I have a block !
 

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Discussion Starter #4
dieselboy- what would shipping be? im at 95973, have forklift and its a buisness.

im suprised with all the thrown rods noone else has a junk block they want to get rid of:shrug:
 

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It'll crack. There is a lot of movement going on between the block and heads and if you try and bolt something solide BETWEEN the heads effectivly trying to tie each head together whatever you use to do that will crack. The only way it'd work is to have a bellows or hump hose somewhere between the two heads.
 

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It'll crack. There is a lot of movement going on between the block and heads and if you try and bolt something solide BETWEEN the heads effectivly trying to tie each head together whatever you use to do that will crack. The only way it'd work is to have a bellows or hump hose somewhere between the two heads.

The marine version uses a one piece manifold.
 

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How well did it work on a 400HP engine?

It might work, but there is a lot of movement at high CP's/Boost levels and it's eveident at looking at old HG's.

I'm not saying for sure it won't work, but two plenumbs with thicker flanges so they don't leak at all are easy and work just fine and no worries at all with that setup.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
two plenums do work but doesn't anyone ever wonder how you can take a 454ci bbc put a blower on it at 30psi and make 1500hp, but you try and take a 444ci and you will be hard pressed to make 550hp at 50psi of boost and tons of fuel. i will be building headers and possibly casting new heads later down the road. i am working on this with a buddy that is already casting blower manifolds and tranny adapters. we have a full machine shop and foundry lined up, as well as the knowlegde of casting. we have an engineer to help with the air flow theories of this. it just seems like the 7.3 is a very inefficent motor but not worth giving up on.

i cant see how the heads move enough to crack an intake. the heads and block expand at the same rate, if the heads did move enough to crack an intake you wouldnt be able to keep head gaskets sealed. the main reason for hg's blowing is cp's higher than the fastener's can hold along with uneven clamping force from stretching bolts and uneven surface areas. the intake will have 3/8" flanges, i'll shoot some pics of the flanges i machined last night.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
would you be willing to put them on a pallet if i paid shipping?
 

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two plenums do work but doesn't anyone ever wonder how you can take a 454ci bbc put a blower on it at 30psi and make 1500hp, but you try and take a 444ci and you will be hard pressed to make 550hp at 50psi of boost and tons of fuel

That right there can be explained by volumetric efficiency, ignition/injection system and the type of fuel used in them.

Best of luck to anything you end up doing, but just think about it. Most of the people here that are swaying you away from this KNOW what they are talking about. Take my comments with a grain of salt though. :poke:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
it just seems like the ve of a 7.3 could be brought up quite a bit, we shall see i guess. if this does work does anyone think there will be a spot in the market for it?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
heres a few pics of the flanges i did the other night, remember i did these manually on a mill, the finished ones will be cast.





 

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I'll admit that I have neither the knowledge or technical savvy to attempt something like this. I applaud your willingness to attempt this. Whether your idea here will work or not,,,,,,,,,,,,I have no clue. I look forward to reading in the future of your progress.
 

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One thing to keep in mind when doing this, is that the aluminum will 'grow' a lot more than the steel when it gets hot. But I'm sure you probably already thought of that.

Is this intake going to take into consideration twin HPOPs? Is a fuel bowl delete going to be necessary?

If you think this will work....go for it!!
 

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If you need to see why the BBC makes so much power, that's a super easy answer. Rpm.

Check what it's making at 2800rpm real quick. You might surprise yourself at how well the powerstroke is actually doing considering the RIDICULOUS rpm deficit it's giving up to gassers.

But the reason is just as simple as operating rpm. It's damn hard to make any power at 2800rpm and even harder on your bottom end trying.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
dual hpops will work but a fuel bowl delete and reg return will be necessary, the way i look at it, if you are going far enough to do this you already have, or will have the supporting mods needed for high hp. with the resources we have it will be as efficient as space will allow. i may need to relocate the gpr, thinking about mounting it to the side of the plenum

charles, that is understood but still 500hp at 2500 rpm is still low. i know you can make more hp with fuel and air but i don't see where you would need more fuel if the engine was more efficient, my goal here is to make it more efficient not just make big power, i want to make the power through efficiency. make sense?
 

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I was just saying, efficiency isn't the reason why the BBC can make upward of 1000hp at half the boost. It's because it's taking in that smaller gulp of air, about twice as often. Meaning, in reality it's moving WAY more air even though the boost is lower, simply because of the rpm it's running at.

A chevy 350 running NA at 7000rpm is moving exactly the same amount of air as the same chevy 350 running over 15lbs of boost at 3500rpm (assuming similar VE's) At 14000rpm (think F1) a 350CI engine would then be moving as much air as it's NA counterpart running over 45lbs of boost at 3500rpm (assuming similar VE's again). If it's not intercooled, you would be more like 100psi to get the airflow that 14000rpm produced.

That's all I was saying. Efficiency in airflow is not why you see the gasser making so much more power. It's the rpm.

Seriously look at a dyno sheet for a BBC making in excess of 1000hp and see what it's making at 2800rpm.

And I would also like a larger plenum for the intake, so I'm not trying to dissuade you from that. Maybe integrate a Water:Air core. But the biggest hurdle is those intake ports. Start there IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
we did think about making the plenum in two pieces the bolted together, this would allow for the addition of a water/air intercooler for guys in your situation that dont have the room for a second air/air ic.

i need a set of heads to look at, i would like to make these with runners that go into the head and align with the ports in it. i remember them being recessed a little iirc. the first intake will not have these as i figure anything will help but we dont know by how much yet.

A chevy 350 running NA at 7000rpm is moving exactly the same amount of air as the same chevy 350 running over 15lbs of boost at 3500rpm (assuming similar VE's)
it would take one atmosphere (14.7psi) to flow the same volume of air, given you are near sea level. more at higher alt., but yes i think we are on the same page. hopefully i can get some time in this week to get the runners built.
 

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Well, it takes a bit more than exactly 14.7psig because the compressor efficiency isn't 100%.

Just rip off the Banks Big Hoss intake for the dirtymax as best you can. It seems to work well.
 
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