[Fordgasm]

Just got back from a run to Florida last night. Went out this morning to start the truck. Temps in the high 40s overnight. Turned the key, waited for the SES light to go out, cranked and it fired right up ran about 3 or 4 seconds and died. Would not restart.
Opened the hood turned the key on and checked the guage for fuel pressure, 70psi so that's not the problem.
Pulled the plug out of the HPOP reservoir and stuck the wrench down in there about 3 1/2 to 4 inches and came out dry.

This started back in late spring but it would always fire back up again. When summer and warmer weather came along it never had a problem until now that it's cooled off again.
If the truck sits over 8 hours or so in cold weather the oil leaks down and I have to add a little oil to the reservoir to start it.
If the outside air temps are above 50* or so, or it doesn't sit for very long, or if I plug in the block heater and keep it warm it will not leak down and it will start fine. With the block heater plugged in it can sit for days and not leak down.
What gives?

 

[trick76cj5]

I'm wondering if maybe your stock pump is a little weak and is having a hard time pulling oil pressure when it first starts when it's cold and the hpop res has an opportunity to drain out before it gets enough oil flow to keep it filled.

I had a similar problem with mine. . .i think it turned out to be an hpop seal, but can't remember 100% now. . .so much has changed.

There isn't anything in the resevoir its self that can cause a leak back, it's basically a bucket. the only way for oil to get out is if the resevoir filler tubes have a crack in them (they are part of the casting), if the hpop gaskets are leaking, if there is an internal leak in the hpop, or i think the IPR could cause a leak too. Seems funny it does it when it's cold. . .would seem to be better when the oil is thik. . .that's why i'm thinking the lpop may be having a hard time pulling the oil out of the pan at first to feed the hpop res.

 

[Arisley]

What weight oil are you using. How long has it been since change. I know, simple dumba$$ questions that you already know. Just a reminder about the simple stuff.

 

[Fordgasm]

Andy I've always run Rotella T 15-40 in it. I have about 2,600 miles on it since the last change.
It doesn't make any difference whether the oil is fresh or ready to be changed, it acts the same either way.

Brad you might be right. It may not be "leaking down" but instead might not be picking up oil and maintaining the oil level in the reservoir upon startup. I didn't think of it that way.
But then again, maybe it is draining down and is only running off of what oil is already in the heads to the injectors and dies before it can supply oil to the HPOP?
All I know right now is that I put half a quart of oil in the reservoir and it started after about three seconds of cranking. It spit and sputtered while I let it run at an idle for several minutes afterwards. After it started to warm up I drove it about 15 miles and it ran ok.
When I got back home I plugged it in and left it set for about 7 hours. Then, I started it again and it was just fine, fired right up and did not miss or die.
It surely seems that as long as the engine stays warm there is no problem.

Brad btw, I'll get that injector in the mail to you over the weekend.

 

[Arisley]

Sounding like a dying LPOP. I knew those were stupid questions, but you now what they say about assuming.

 

[Fordgasm]

Geez you'd think they would build these things to last longer. I mean what's 500K miles? Maybe Ford will give me a replacement free if I complain that I haven't gotten my moneys worth out of this one. :

 

[Arisley]

If you need backup, give me a shout. Dammit, an LPOP should last the life of the motor.

 

[trick76cj5]

Does it smoke when you're cranking and it wont start?

I chased a driaining resevoir for a while only to find out my glow plugs weren't working . . . it took a while, but i realized the white smoke coming from the exhaust was fuel. . .which shouldn't be there if the HPOP wasn't working :doh: Jumpered the GP relay and the engine about started w/the fuel in the cylinders. . .scared me to death :doh:. Guess i popped the GP portion of the computer when i installed the engine. . .a new computer while i was at BTS cured my problem. The guys at BTS are Great! :nutswinger:

Anyway, let us know what you come across. . .and i'll be wating on the injector. . .i'll send ya the invoice for the previous exchange when I send you the injector back.

 

[ActionRick]

Andy I've always run Rotella T 15-40 in it. I have about 2,600 miles on it since the last change.
It doesn't make any difference whether the oil is fresh or ready to be changed, it acts the same either way.

Brad you might be right. It may not be "leaking down" but instead might not be picking up oil and maintaining the oil level in the reservoir upon startup. I didn't think of it that way.
But then again, maybe it is draining down and is only running off of what oil is already in the heads to the injectors and dies before it can supply oil to the HPOP?
All I know right now is that I put half a quart of oil in the reservoir and it started after about three seconds of cranking. It spit and sputtered while I let it run at an idle for several minutes afterwards. After it started to warm up I drove it about 15 miles and it ran ok.
When I got back home I plugged it in and left it set for about 7 hours. Then, I started it again and it was just fine, fired right up and did not miss or die.
It surely seems that as long as the engine stays warm there is no problem.

Brad btw, I'll get that injector in the mail to you over the weekend.

Here is some reading on the subject....

Click me....


Especially# 5 or page #5 whichever....

 

[Fordgasm]

Does it smoke when you're cranking and it wont start?


Anyway, let us know what you come across. . .and i'll be wating on the injector. . .i'll send ya the invoice for the previous exchange when I send you the injector back.

Nope not a bit of smoke. I guess because the injectors have no oil to operate so they are not moving any fuel. Remember it starts right up, runs a few seconds, dies and then won't restart.

Uh... I didn't make it to the post office before they closed so it will be Monday before I can get that package headed your way.

 

[Fordgasm]

Here is some reading on the subject....

Click me....


Especially# 5 or page #5 whichever....

Thanks for the link Rick. There is some interesting info in there.

 

[trick76cj5]

I'm thinking that this issues may be related to your injector that keeps going out? If there are instances where the injectors are allowed to run out of oil, but the computer is still cycling the injectors, and theres is little to dampen the poppet as it works in the injector. I know they do buzz tests and it doesn't hurt anything, but how many buzz tests could you run befor you do start? If it takes 10k miles before the injector shows wear, maybe it is the starts that go dry that's causing it. . .and the number 8 is at the end of the oil chain and fires directly after 6 so it could be more significantly effected. Just a WAG, but i'm just thinking out loud.

 

[Fordgasm]

I don't know. The injector problem has been going on for......I dunno, 2 or 2 1/2 years now. But, from January 1st to about 2 weeks ago I had only put about 3,000 miles on the truck. Now, I've put almost that many on it in the last week and a half.
The start and die problem started late last spring and then disappeared all summer until just now when it cooled off again.
Hopefully all of this will go away when I swap engines but I would kind of like to know what is causing the trouble just for my own peace of mind.

 

[Fordgasm]

Well the plot thickens.
Went out today to move the truck. I left it plugged in last night to be sure that it would run. When I went to unplug it the prongs pulled out of the block heater cord and stuck in the end of the extension cord. Anybody know how much they cost and does Napa have them or do I need to go to the stealership to get one?

Also, does anyone know how long it takes upon startup to empty the HPOP reservoir?

 

[Arisley]

www.powerstrokeshop.com If it is just the plug, you can get one at Home Depot. No clue on the HPOP

 

[genuineford]

I would just get a new cord plug end. You can pick one of those up at any hardware store.

 

[Fordgasm]

I parked the truck in the garage last night because I haven't got the plug end replaced yet, hoping that would keep it a little warmer than being outside in the 29* air overnight.
Just went out to start it, temps now about 62*. The glowplugs are definitely working good, fired right up with just a light puff of blue smoke. It ran for about 5 seconds and died. Watching the guage in the dash it never had oil pressure before it died. But, it did start right back up the second time and kept running.
I checked the HPOP reservoir before I tried to start it the first time and it was full. So, just maybe, it is the LPOP getting tired and having trouble pulling cold oil at start up?
Am I overlooking anything here? Anything else I should take a look at?

 

[trick76cj5]

I think you're right on the money there. Swapping the pumps isn't too hard, and the Melling M208 (high volume pump) is available at oriley's for like $85 IIRC. . .not terribly hard to replace. Make sure you check the front cover to be sure it's not scored. . .that can cause oil pressure issues as well.

Do you have a mech oil pressure guage in there too? What is your cold/hot idle and cruising oil pressures?

 

[gregrob]

I'm beginning to think this could be my issue as well. My truck does exactly what is described in the technician manual, gauge on dash shoots up, and then it starts. Sometimes it will start right up, then die.

Can someone tell me this though, how would a weak LPOP cause the HPO reservoir to bleed down? I can understand it not pumping when cold, but does it lose its prime and let it bleed down, or is that another issue?

 

[Arisley]

No, I think the LPOP, is not keeping up when cold and allowing the HPOP to run out of oil.