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Discussion Starter #1
I was just wondering just how much difference does a 38R turbo really make on a late model 7.3L engine in terms of power, acceleration, EGTs, and smoke. Does it really give you more power? Without first spooling my turbo will it make my acceleration faster? How much will it really lower my EGTs? Does it help with reducing smoke at all? Also how much boost can the turbo really make? Websites say 40psi is the most but can it go higher then that or does it come in short? I just want to see what people are really seeing with the turbo before I spend all this money on it. Thanks for you the help!
 

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you might not get more boost, but itll get there in what seems like half the time, significant drop in egt's and reduced smoke is just a bi product of the other things that it will do for you, as for seat of the pants feel? absolutely worth the money especially when they can be had for 1500 brand new, or easily found used by people going bigger. buuut when youre ready to do a set of injectors this turbo's a nice match to a set of like 238's or similar,
 

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I was just wondering just how much difference does a 38R turbo really make on a late model 7.3L engine in terms of power, acceleration, EGTs, and smoke. Does it really give you more power? YESWithout first spooling my turbo will it make my acceleration faster? HUH?? How much will it really lower my EGTs? Depends on how hot how much fuel etc but its significant Does it help with reducing smoke at all? Yes Also how much boost can the turbo really make? In what situation to many variables. Websites say 40psi and that would be correct in single use if you care about your engine and turbo longevity is the most but can it go higher then that or does it come in short? Again yes and no to both I just want to see what people are really seeing with the turbo before I spend all this money on it. Understandable. Do some searching and look at some signatures. Thanks for you the help!
The 38R is one of the top upgrades made to 7.3s. It is one fun turbo. Spools fast good usable power. Stock positions so simplest of all installs. One thing you do not see is many disappointed owners.

A 38R compared to a stock turbo. With proper fuel the 38r can make over 500 HPOP factory turbo in complete stock forum about 150 hp less and will likely not last.

The 40 psi is the highest it can flow in single form where it will still be inside its map (be efficient). Yes it can run higher but its the law of diminishing returns and is harder on the engine and turbo. Yes it lowers EGTS. How much depends on how much fuel is sued and how hot it is. More air with the same amount of fuel if there is smoke will reduce it by the amount of extra air flowed. Understand there is more to it than boost. 30 psi of boost in a stock turbo and 38R provide very different amount of air flow and power. The 38R is more efficient.

Honestly doing a few searches on just about any 7.3 forum and you can see how popular the upgrade is. Do you really think it woudl be so if it was just a mediocre upgrade in overall performance.
 

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The 38R is one of the top upgrades made to 7.3s. It is one fun turbo. Spools fast good usable power. Stock positions so simplest of all installs. One thing you do not see is many disappointed owners.

A 38R compared to a stock turbo. With proper fuel the 38r can make over 500 HPOP factory turbo in complete stock forum about 150 hp less and will likely not last.

The 40 psi is the highest it can flow in single form where it will still be inside its map (be efficient). Yes it can run higher but its the law of diminishing returns and is harder on the engine and turbo. Yes it lowers EGTS. How much depends on how much fuel is sued and how hot it is. More air with the same amount of fuel if there is smoke will reduce it by the amount of extra air flowed. Understand there is more to it than boost. 30 psi of boost in a stock turbo and 38R provide very different amount of air flow and power. The 38R is more efficient.

Honestly doing a few searches on just about any 7.3 forum and you can see how popular the upgrade is. Do you really think it woudl be so if it was just a mediocre upgrade in overall performance.
TARM, you tackled this one pretty well, especially the part in bold. I personally could care less if my boost numbers were 20, 30, or 40psi, if I have the airflow I need and the turbo is staying close to it's max. efficiency.

Dave
 

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think I'm going to save TARM's reply for the next 38 38r threads there will be this month.

Very well said bud.
 

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Makes a big difference. You will get the 38R and you will not be dissapointed.
 

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I love the 38R. As was already stated, it's a great match with injectors of the hybrid 238/80 flavor. With the right supporting mods, that combo should make 475ish street/tow-friendly RWHP (and be a heck of a lot of fun). However, if I never planned on going with bigger injectors than stock, it would be hard for me to justify the expense.

Also, at 40psi, the 38R is already way outside of it's map. It starts losing the 1:1 BP ratio around the 30psi mark, IIRC. There-in lies the trade-off. In order to get the low boost threshold, you will run the turbo out of it's map on the top-end to get to the ~40psi mark (but will still make ~475rwhp).
 

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As for your acceleration without first "spooling" it SHOULD as long as you go with the 1.0 housing.

I believe what he meant Tarm is without first building boost on the line. But yes, a BB turbo generally spools a few hundred RPM faster.
 

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I dont have bigger injectors in my truck just stockers and it is well worth it. Anything over 25PSI is out of a stockers MAP and at 25 PSI it wont last all that long either. If you get the 38R and just have a chip and never plan on anything else its still well worth the money.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Yeah sorry for the confusion on "spooling my turbo". What I meant was with out first building boost up on the line:whs:. I'm really trying to make my truck have a throw you back in your seat kinda feel when I gun it. Right now it just seems like its so slow to respond. My buddy has an 06 Duramax and with his VGT that thing throws you back in your seat off the line and on the highway. So I'm trying to make my truck more responsive and have more overall power. If I could make my truck beat my buddies that would be great cause all he has on his is a Banks intake, exhaust and Six-Gun. I'm so tired of him calling my truck the "SlowStroke" that I either have to beat him in the 1/4 mile or on a dyno, either way, just something I can rub in his face. I know I'm gonna have to get a new turbo, and new injectors but I just wanted to make sure that a 38R would give me the results that I'm looking for.
 

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Yeah sorry for the confusion on "spooling my turbo". What I meant was with out first building boost up on the line:whs:. I'm really trying to make my truck have a throw you back in your seat kinda feel when I gun it. Right now it just seems like its so slow to respond. My buddy has an 06 Duramax and with his VGT that thing throws you back in your seat off the line and on the highway. So I'm trying to make my truck more responsive and have more overall power. If I could make my truck beat my buddies that would be great cause all he has on his is a Banks intake, exhaust and Six-Gun. I'm so tired of him calling my truck the "SlowStroke" that I either have to beat him in the 1/4 mile or on a dyno, either way, just something I can rub in his face. I know I'm gonna have to get a new turbo, and new injectors but I just wanted to make sure that a 38R would give me the results that I'm looking for.
how big of injectors are you looking at? Be careful cause you'll be flirting with windowing your block if you go to big.
 

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38r spools darn nice right off the line even at altitude.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Right now it looks like 238cc 80% seem to be whats popular but I'm not to sure. Although to be honest with you im not sure what the 80% means.
 

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As mentioned before you could very possibly destroy a very expensive engine by playing "keep up with the Jones" A tuned Duramax is no slouch. Not saying it cant be done, just whats it worth to you to make a point?
 

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Yeah watch out with that 2003. PMRs suck and you may be flirting with disaster already if your running meth in with your water.
 

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Right now it looks like 238cc 80% seem to be whats popular but I'm not to sure. Although to be honest with you im not sure what the 80% means.
30%, 80%, 100%, 200%, etc refers to the nozzle flow of aftermarket sticks.

80% would mean that they flow fuel 80% faster than stock nozzles. 200% would mean they flow 200% faster than stock nozzles.

238/80 or 238/100's go GREAT with the 38r and with the right mods can make a modest 500hp. Big_stroker has a awesome 38r/238 setup. He's makin a tad bit over 500
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Hey thanks for clearing that up for me man, I've always wondered what that meant. As for the water/meth setup, right now I run 30% meth and the truck is tuned for it. So far the truck runs great, and it does as advertised. It cools my EGTs by a solid 200 degree on a WOT run. I've yet to have it dynoed with it running though so I don't know if I gained any power off of it but I'm not to concerned with that, I wanted to cooling effects from it more then I did the power gains.
 

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The PSD is an older design and just isn't going to keep up w/ a Dmax although you might be surprised at how well you tow against him.

A hot chip, a 38R, and a medium oil option will make your truck darn peppy for the $. It's a lot less expensive than buying a new truck.

If your injectors have a lot of miles on them you can forget about the Medium Oil and run a set of small hybrids just make sure your tuner is fully aware that you are on PMRs. You could end up w/ a really nice 420 rwhp.

The next step up from there is going to require major surgery to the truck and possibly your bank account.
 

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Be carefully with the meth. Personally I woudl switch to water only. It will coll just as well. Meth is another fuel source and it seems like a gamble. Adding the bigger injectors with the 38R will give you ALL the power that engine can handle. Going with only water will ensure egts never get too hot. Meth can effect the timing, advancing it. This can increase cylinder pressure.

Remember when looking at injectors the volume or cc ( the first number in 238/80) its importance is so you have at least as much and ideally a bit more fuel to support the HP and engine setup you plan to run. 2.3-2.5 HP per CC of fuel is a generally applied formula. The volume of the injector is not what controls drivability or the rate the fuel is injected. The amount of the volume of the injector that is used is controlled by your tuning. Many people tend to rate injectors effects on driving by the CC which IMO is wrong. Volume can and is controlled by the tuning. A tuner can call for as much or little fuel they want in a tune. From what I have learned you always want a injectors that has more fuel then you intend to use. On the injector what controls how smoky or how drivable, whether it can tow well, choppy or smooth it idles is the nozzles flow rate. That is the second number in the injector description ( 238/80)

For me I see no advantages other than possibly price to use anything but hybrid injectors once you want more power than a 160cc/30% can supply.

The reasons for the 238cc/80% injectors being so wildly popular are they can be built from factory and other supplied parts (no machining). A code body, 530 Plunger and barrel assembly, 80% EDM nozzle. The hybrid spec uses the least amount of oil per fuel injection. The 238cc offer enough fuel volume to produce power up to the high 500's with proper nozzle. The 80% nozzle size, which means it can flow at a rate that is 80% MORE/OVER what a stock nozzle can, offers great flexibility. It can be tuned to have the smoothness and drivablity of a stock nozzle yet when you put the hammer down can flow enough fuel to break into the low 500s. It also allows for as good if not better MPG to be maintained. Most people upgrading their 7.3s beyond Stage I injectors happen to fall into this power category. The 238/80 38R combination can be made to offer you max power 475-500 range or be tuned all the way down to stock 200 hp levels . It can tow at the full trucks rating or be made to run like a hot race tune. The 38R is the only real drop in. It is a heavy duty built. The BB allows for fast spool up. The 38R turbo like the 238/80 hybrid injectors offers all the smoothness and drivability of the stock components if not better in some areas but at ht e same time are capable of huge power and performance increases. Combing the two makes for a very nice combination.

If you have PMRs it can be kept tuned down in the low 400s and if you ever do work and go up to forged stock rods it can be cranked up. Go to a bigger turbo they can be adjusted to handle it and if needed sent back in to have larger nozzles installed. Need more the builders can do some work and increase the capacity.

From what I have learned, which I still am and a long way to go, this is what order and spec of injectors I would chose:

160cc/stock (Stage I A-Code) 350-375
160cc/30% (Stage II A- Code) 375-400
238cc/80% (Stage III Hybrid) 400-525
250cc/100% (Stage III Hybrid) 525-575
300cc/200% ( Stage IV Hybrid) 575+
Then things get BIG

Sorry I did not understand what you had meant by power before spool up. It makes sense now.

If you end up going this route I think you will be very happy with the performance. Be sure to advise your tuner you have PMRs. Make sure to go with a tuner that has a rep for reliability with PMRs. I am very happy with my tunes from Matt @ gearhead . There are a number of other very good tuners as well.


Good Luck
 

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i'm almost positive i have a boost leak at the up-pipes now after hearing all this. after putting my 38r on, it seems to spool up slower, and stay at lower pressures, where I was higher on the stocker. hmmm...
 
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