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Discussion Starter #1
Guys:

I'm at a little bit of a crossroads here...

2005 Excursion with 230K miles on the clock. New batteries, good charging system and ALWAYS see 47.5V to 48.5V FICM power on the SCT live wire.

When it is cold, usually a longer crank than normal and runs rough, until driven about three miles. Also see hard start on warm starts. Feel some surging at light throttle application. Hot starts are OK.

I did the injector test on IDS and when it was ice cold, I will only hear two injectors fire. Another time I did the test ice cold, I heard 6 fire. If the test is repeated when hot, all 8 fire.

The question is, can I have six bad injectors, or could the FICM be responsible, even though FICM power is rock solid around 48V?

Best Regards,
Steve
Houston, TX
 

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I would think it's likely a stiction issues with the injectors on cold start ups. sometimes a treatment like revx can help with an oil change. fresh oil change and fuel filters with an additive in both would be my first step.

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Mine ran rough either hot or cold. I had issues before with one bad injector as it got colder i was only running on 5 cylinders and 4 injectors were bad went ahead and replaced all 8 and haven’t had any issues since then. I would say replace all injectors and call it a day.


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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the reply.

About a week ago, oil was changed and today I did both fuel filters. Tried to find RevX at the local parts houses and no cigar. I did shoot a quart of the Power Service Diesel injector cleaner into the tank today, for whatever that's worth.

Regards,
Steve
 

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It would be good to listen closely and count when you are doing the injector testing. They are tested in numerical order (1-8) so you should make a mental note of which two don't have the proper sound during the test.
 

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Thanks for the reply.

About a week ago, oil was changed and today I did both fuel filters. Tried to find RevX at the local parts houses and no cigar. I did shoot a quart of the Power Service Diesel injector cleaner into the tank today, for whatever that's worth.

Regards,
Steve
Injector cleaner is for the fuel side. IMO it is a waste of money. Stiction treatment is for the oil side. IMO you need an oil side treatment, like 207RIDER mentioned, or new injectors.

So, what oil are you using? Did you just add a 15W40 oil for your oil change?
 

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yes like I mentioned earlier in the post you can try the Rev x treatment or another substitute it may work as others including myself had great luck with it before, I had similar stiction issues and after a few fresh oil changes with rotella t6 5w40 and the Rev x treatment and it did work out about 90% of the issues however it's generally a bandage for a bigger problem which could be injectors

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Discussion Starter #8
Injector cleaner is for the fuel side. IMO it is a waste of money. Stiction treatment is for the oil side. IMO you need an oil side treatment, like 207RIDER mentioned, or new injectors.

So, what oil are you using? Did you just add a 15W40 oil for your oil change?
I am using Delo 5W40 full synthetic. Have been running it for 2.5 years. Are any of the oil side treatment products available at the big parts houses or are they online order only?

Best Regards,
Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #9
It would be good to listen closely and count when you are doing the injector testing. They are tested in numerical order (1-8) so you should make a mental note of which two don't have the proper sound during the test.
Yup. The one thing that is consistent is that whenever the test is performed and it is cold, #6 never fires.

I see the same deficiency when running the cylinder contribution test when it is cold. When it is surging, #6 is down.

Best Regards,
Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #10
It would be good to listen closely and count when you are doing the injector testing. They are tested in numerical order (1-8) so you should make a mental note of which two don't have the proper sound during the test.
I will go and run the injector test now since it is cold and report back....

Best Regards,
Steve
 

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I am using Delo 5W40 full synthetic. Have been running it for 2.5 years. Are any of the oil side treatment products available at the big parts houses or are they online order only?

Best Regards,
Steve
I have always gotten my treatments on-line.

I do know Hot Shot's Secret is available in places like Tractor Supply. Maybe Auto Zone also. I have never used it though. I haven't ever seen Rev-X or Archoil at a parts store. I know people that swear by Hot Shot's Secret stiction eliminator (same w/ Rev-X and Archoil too though).
 

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You asked a question earlier about the FICM. It is possible (and far too common) for the logic side to have problems even though the power side is fine. You typically get codes from a failing power side, but a failing logic side is harder to diagnose. Many times the only way for the average guy to identify a failing logic side is to install a known good FICM and see if the problems go away.

Monitor the logic side voltage of the FICM. Maybe it will give you a clue.
 

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Since Ford put some 04 engines in the 05 excursion, do you know if your engine is an 04 or an 05 engine?

The failure prone STC fitting is only in the 05 and up engines even though the late 04's have the same oil rails as the 05 and up engines. Also, the V-4 piston style HPOP was installed in only the 05 and up engines, Is your HPOP cover plate aluminum or cast iron? Do you have a MAF sensor?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Since Ford put some 04 engines in the 05 excursion, do you know if your engine is an 04 or an 05 engine?

The failure prone STC fitting is only in the 05 and up engines even though the late 04's have the same oil rails as the 05 and up engines. Also, the V-4 piston style HPOP was installed in only the 05 and up engines, Is your HPOP cover plate aluminum or cast iron? Do you have a MAF sensor?
The truck is a September 2005 (Late!) build. The engine decal indicates that it is a 2005 engine.

I did the STC fitting fix about five years ago. I can't remember the HPOP cover, but I want to say that it was aluminum. I do have a MAF sensor.

Regards,
Steve
 

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I would replace all your injectors, those were the same ones on kine that stopped working. Replaced all 8 never had an issue since then.


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Discussion Starter #17
I have always gotten my treatments on-line.

I do know Hot Shot's Secret is available in places like Tractor Supply. Maybe Auto Zone also. I have never used it though. I haven't ever seen Rev-X or Archoil at a parts store. I know people that swear by Hot Shot's Secret stiction eliminator (same w/ Rev-X and Archoil too though).
Thanks for the tip! I think I'll swing by Tractor Supply if they are open today.

Regards,
Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #19
You asked a question earlier about the FICM. It is possible (and far too common) for the logic side to have problems even though the power side is fine. You typically get codes from a failing power side, but a failing logic side is harder to diagnose. Many times the only way for the average guy to identify a failing logic side is to install a known good FICM and see if the problems go away.

Monitor the logic side voltage of the FICM. Maybe it will give you a clue.
I wish I had another FICM to test. From looking at pictures of the logic side of the FICM, I can see the injector FET driver array. If it was #2, #4, #6 & #8 not firing, I'd be highly suspect of the logic side of the FICM. I did bang on it with a metal pipe while it was running and no change there.

I have been looking at the logic power and it is between 13 and 13.5V, consistently.

Thanks for all of the useful information.

Regards,
Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I would replace all your injectors, those were the same ones on kine that stopped working. Replaced all 8 never had an issue since then.


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What do you mean by those were the same ones?

Where did you get your injectors? I see them all over the place and the prices vary wildly. From looking at the Motorcraft slick injector rebuild propaganda PDF sheet, looks like they are the hot ticket. Scary thing is how do you know if you are getting genuine Motorcraft reman parts or cheap junk?

Regards,
Steve
 
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