Ford Power Stroke Nation banner

1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have been a long time lurker here, sorry for introducing myself this way.

I know i shouldn't have taken it to a dealership. I should have had an AE and going forward that will definitely be my course of action.

I am trying to summarize what has occurred over the past two weeks as best as possible.

1. Service Engine Soon lights comes on has slight miss when cold
2. Take truck to wondries informed it will be two days before they can look at it, rental car at 35/day 4 days total for wondries
3. Wondries calls me to inform me that glow plug relay is broken and glowplug harness under valve covers is bad, I approve work. New CPS without my authorization.
4. Get my truck back everything seems good. The next morning SES light is back on
5. Take the truck back to wondries. 8 hours later I call and they tell me #3 and #8 injectors are bad. I approve replacement of #8 injector deny #3. (first mistake)
6. Get track back runs rougher than when I dropped it off. Park it at home SES light comes back on.
7. Take truck to an Independent and show them previous work done by wondries ask them to diagnose. Rental car 35/day 3 days total.
8. They pull valve covers to find glow plug relay wiring for #6 cylinder not plugged in. They replace #3 injector as recommended by wondries.
9. Truck still fails cylinder contribution test for #3 and #8
10. I type "#3 and #8 failing contribution 7.3" into google and thanks to the power and knowledge base of PSN i come up with this:
20322 SOME 1997 THROUGH 2003 MY 7.3L VEHICLES MAY EXHIBIT A PHANTOM P0284, P0281, P0278, P0275, P0272, P0269, P0266, AND/OR P0263 DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE (DTC)
SOME 1997 THROUGH 2003 MY 7.3L VEHICLES MAY EXHIBIT PHANTOM P0284, P0281, P0278, P0275, P0272, P0269, P0266, AND/OR P0263 DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES (DTC) WITHOUT DRIVABILITY SYMPTOMS IN CYLINDER CONTRIBUTION TEST (CCT) ON VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A NEW STYLE (GRAY) CPM SENSOR. THE NEW STYLE SENSOR WOULD HAVE BEEN INSTALLED UNDER SAFETY RECALL 07S57. ENGINEERING IS CURRENTLY WORKING ON A RESOLUTION TO ELIMINATE THE PHANTOM CODES.
EFFECTIVE DATE: 07/03/2008
11. Reputable Indendent reflashed PCM and may have replace CPS free of Charge.
12. Truck runs great now.


My delimna is i just spent close to 2,500 dollars on a bunch of labor two injectors, wiring harnesses, rental cars and missed work.

From what i gather there is a very strong chance #3 and #8 injectors were perfectly fine and it was the CPS that Wondries Ford put in that caused this whole problem. What really bugs me is there is a TSB just for this issue and they still recommended two new injectors.

I spoke with the service director at wondries and he is going to dig up the #8 injector and supposedly get it flow tested and then call me back. Since I am not a "loyal customer" and it was my "first time here, and how do i know you arent a scammer" he is doubtful that he can get me any of my money back.

I am by no means the type to ever sue anyone but this seems ridiculous? I wanted to know what PSN members in my shoes would do. :bowfast:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,952 Posts
I had a similar experience, but I did all the labor and running around myself. When I brought my truck in for a rear main seal, under warranty, they changed my cps without telling me. A few months later my truck developed a knock. I then ran AE on it and it came back with #8 failing the test. I figured "no big deal, my #8 LL injector finally went bad". I ordered a reman from Swamps and put it in. It made no difference on the knock and my heart started to skip beats. I posted up videos and other members asked if I had a gray cps. Of course I said "no". Well after a while, I decided to take a peak and sure enough, I had a gray cps, even though I never approved the recall. I put my spare black cps in and the truck passed all tests perfectly. It still knocked, but it passed all tests perfectly. That friggin cps sent me on a goose chase.
I ended up making an injector breakout box to try and figure out which cylinder was knocking. Had I not followed the faulty diagnostics with the gray cps, I would have saved myself a lot of time. I would call Ford and see if they will help you at all and I would dig up some paperwork to show the current dealership that they absolutely should have been aware of that. How the hell can you be a Ford tech and not know the gray cps with give you faulty CCT tests?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the response. I actually have an email dialogue going with the Service manager right now. He is going to go show the master diesel tech the service message regarding the gray cps, they are also trying to get a hold of the old #8 injector they replaced to verify that it is faulty. What a nightmare. On a positive not the truck is the smoothest it has ever been cruising down the highway.I think the tech and parts guy knew but just wanted more work. Injectors and UVCH harnesses arent cheap, parts and labor wise.

I know the heart skipping beats feeling. That has been the past two weeks. Funny thing is earlier this week I asked the Independent Mechanic his thoughts on Swamps at 1/3 the price, he just kinda shrugged and said he is used too ford parts. The independent had replaced the number three injector and assured me the truck was good to go. But then one of his mechanics came in and took it out the truck again. I saw him staring at the computer scanner while revving the engine and I knew by the expression on his face it wasn't resolved :-\ , my guess was the CCT test was still showing #3 and #8 as not contributing. Three days later and some nudging by me about the info on this sight and my truck is good to go


I bought this thing 8 months ago because of the 7.3's bulletproof reputation and this is my first repair experience. I am definitely going to hang onto the truck but it is testing me at this point. Sad thing is the truck hardly did anything wrong other than a glow plug relay:ford:, every problem thereafter can be attributed to this CPS and dealer :mad:imho.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
What does the injector breakout box consist of?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Sorry about the bad luck. Next time I would post on here before you take it to a dealer. Could be something simple.
Thanks, I will be sure to post up any other issues here, and will be investing in an AE as soon as this disaster is paid off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,477 Posts
Your truck will last for a long ass time. It will take some reading and getting your hands dirty to know how to diagnose and fix these things.
 

·
OEM Moderator
Joined
·
9,381 Posts
Breakout box is just a device that plugs into teh main connector going to the engine with 8 switches on it. It lets you turn off injectors individually. I think that shop owes you something on this deal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
My own Grey vs. Black CPS test - Powerstroke Nation

I am definitely going to try and get something out of them. Thanks for the support. Really wishing I had read the above thread, before authorizing the stealership to do what they do.

THe independent mechanic claims he got the grey cps to play nice with the truck after he reflashed the pcm this morning. Just now on the way home the SES light is back on and it feels like it is running on 7 cylinders again. I need to get that grey cps outta there ASAP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,952 Posts
Unfortunately, I don't think the gray will cause the ses. I had a gray cps for several months and never knew it. The truck ran the same for me, just gave sh_t diagnostics. The folks on here will be able to help you with diagnosing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Thanks guys, I went to westrux International in montebello last night and picked up a 1876736c91 cps, its dark grey with the purple ring. While i was there one of the mechanics was hanging out at the parts desk, and was telling me that sometimes the 444 gets a little slop in in the camshaft and then the sensor either is too close or too far for the cam. He has some measuring device and a shim kit to get it dialed in. I want to get an AE before I spend any more money at anyones shop at this point.

I went out this morning to replace it and to my suprise the exact same thing was already in there. As expected the SES light didnt go away. Its wierd at times the truck runs and idles smoother than it ever has, then when u get to the next stoplight it is running on 7 cylinder with what sounds like the #8 injector clacking away loud as ever. SOTP dyno seems like 3rd gear has never pulled as hard but then when u let off it runs like crap. Seems like this has to be software or sensor related, otherwise my guess would be fuel pressure? I need gauges too... powerstrokes make for an expensive hobby

I am going to try and find a Brick and Mortar place that sells an AE at a reasonable price somewhere here in SoCal if not order one form one of the sponsors here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
I had the same thing with #3 and #8. Bought a dark grey with purpl o-ring still #3 and #8 failed. Found some black ones installed one and they all now pass. Pricey little buggers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I had the same thing with #3 and #8. Bought a dark grey with purpl o-ring still #3 and #8 failed. Found some black ones installed one and they all now pass. Pricey little buggers.
Glad to hear that, I had lost hope that the CPS was the solution.

Ebay for the black CPS? or does a sponsor here carry them, I know there is a site that has em for 50 bucks. DP doesnt carry them anymore it seems either?

Dirt Devil was your SES light on? if so how long did it take to go away after replacing the CPS, or did u just reset the computer with a scanner? I have been reading some people it takes 5 ignition cycles others say 40?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Got an "original made in America" black CPS and an AE with the ford bundle on the way. Hopefully by Wed or Thursday of next week I will have this SES behind me. Approaching $3k in parts and labor into a 10k truck. it seems as thought the AE will be a solid investment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
I actually didn't have a SES light. I am troubleshooting somthing else and found this on the way. I bought mine from dieselorings.com, he has been great to deal with as I bought o-rings from him previously. So since he was great with those I ordered the CPS from him as well. Thinking I might pick up a couple more to have for dad and I.

Yup the AE will deffinatley help down the road. I have used it on friends vehicles as well as others in the family. When I bought mine I bought the domestic bundle with Ford, GM, and Chrysler as we have all three makes in the family.

Wish you the best of luck
Dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I read elsewhere, not sure about it that if a cylinder fails contribution over 5% it will throw a code which is what i was getting.

Tonight i ran the CCT test with the dark gray CPS and #3 and #8 failed (forgot the code), as usual the SES light comes on and stays on if I take ito WOT.

I then put the black made in america CPS in which i got from an online retailer for 50 bucks, and ran the CCT test. All 8 passed, engine idles louder but the definitive #8 clack that I had before is gone. So I can say for almost certian that I have two brand new/remanned injectors for no real reason.

so out of my 2500 dollar bill, 500 is justified for glowplug relay that was actually faulty to the best of my knowledge. 400 or so for two UVCH's which i probably didnt need but dont regret the peace of mind offered by the updated clips. everything therafter for labor, injectors, and 80 percent of the rental car was not neccessary.

More good news is I have a pretty solid email dialogue going with the service manager at the stealership. He has offered me an "employee discount" which will credit 250 bucks back to my credit card. Not only that he is going to allow me to meet the mechanic next week. I really wanted to do that in the first place! but better late than never. I think i will bet him lunch to run the CCT test on my truck as it stands, then go put in the latest and greatest CPS and run it again. When number 3 and 8 fail he knows as well as i do that all the harnesses are new and the injectors are new. If he can argue with that logic, i am going to revert back to chain smoking, then start calling dearborn and my local small claims.

If you want something done right u gotta do it yourself...

You guys have all been awesome. And I look forward to hopefully being able to contribute to this site. I have already started looking out for people with similar issues.

:ford::ford::ford: except for their Cps's
 

·
Demon Dually
Joined
·
5,140 Posts
So you think that 500 bucks is reasonable for a 40 dollar relay?That would be 460 in labor for 5 minutes worth of work. 400 for UVCH's? From the dealer I think they are 40 ish a piece. Thats 80 in parts. So 320 for labor???? That is 780 in labor give or take. I won't even go into the injector issue. I would tell them that they are refunding every penny since they didn't fix a thing and you fixed it with a 20 dollar sensor that they screwed up on in the first place or you are taking them to court for every penny plus court costs, time lost at work, and charge them "your" fee for properly diagnosing the problem and charge them for actually fixing it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
So you think that 500 bucks is reasonable for a 40 dollar relay?That would be 460 in labor for 5 minutes worth of work. 400 for UVCH's? From the dealer I think they are 40 ish a piece. Thats 80 in parts. So 320 for labor???? That is 780 in labor give or take. I won't even go into the injector issue. I would tell them that they are refunding every penny since they didn't fix a thing and you fixed it with a 20 dollar sensor that they screwed up on in the first place or you are taking them to court for every penny plus court costs, time lost at work, and charge them "your" fee for properly diagnosing the problem and charge them for actually fixing it.
Thats the kick in the ass I need. Speed demon I owe you a beer, and will definitely re read that quote, pound my chest a few times and walk in the service dept front door tuesday of next week ready to roll some heads.

Haha just saw your reply on the other CPS thread going right now

Thanks for the harsh words and motivation.
 

·
Demon Dually
Joined
·
5,140 Posts
No problem. I hate to see someone get raked over the coals. They screwed you without vaseline and added some sand while they were in there. You have the proof that you fixed it when they didn't. Your thread on here can be used in court by the way. When you meet their mechanic, tell him to visit the forum so he can learn how to actually fix diesel trucks instead of play parts changer.
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top