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· 10.61 @ 128 MPH
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2,279 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
well i am trying to save a little bit of cash by trying tom make my own fuel system . i am going to buy the gen3 oil pump. and then a regulated return. from what i here i am going to have to relocate the fuel bowl with that style pump.

my questions are .....what all do i need to make this work and where can i get all all this stuff? Can some one explain how everything is routed / located (from the tank to the motor)

what what lift pump should i use? what kind of fuel filter /water separator should i use?. In tank mods???? i want to use 5/8 tubing / hose.

i can buy a whole kit ( regulated return, aeromotive 1000 pump/ filters, tank mods) for 1500 bucks but if i can save some $ i would like to make my own.

thanks
 

· 10.61 @ 128 MPH
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2,279 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
"As for the cost, the second pump cost me $160, the filter heads and filters cost another $70, and with all the fittings and hoses, 5/8" in tank pick-up, and bowl delete, I'm in the complete fuel system about $400."




rockinjw, where did you get the filter heads from, pickup tubes, fittings/ hoses. how did you make your bowl delete. 400 dollars thats saving a whole lot of money.
 

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189 Posts
You will save money if you build it yourself and have a way to get cheap parts. Locate the nearest Parker Hydraulic store, they will have all the brass fittings you will need to pull everything off, as well as the hose and hose ends.

First off, quick lesson in hose sizing. Hose is measure in "dash" sizes and is broken down into 16ths of an inch as follows:
-10 hose (pronounced "dash ten hose") is the same as 5/8" hose (or 10/16" hence -10)

Second quick lesson. You will want to use "push lock" or "socketless connectors" on the end of the hose. These are very nice barbed ends that will insert into the hose and not require hose clamps to stay located. These do require special hose as well, which can be purchased at Parker as well. To install these fittings in the hose you will need to lubricate them w/a solution of dishsoap water. Do not use oil because it will not dry and the fitting will come apart when under pressure.

Third lesson. You will need to use 37* flare connectors. These are also known as JIC or AN fittings. Do not confuse these with the standard 45* flare parts you can buy at the hardware store, the two will not seal if you try to use them together. Parker will know these as JIC or 37* flare, AN is what they are know as to the race car mechanics.

With that out of the way, here is a run down of what you will need.

Tank:
You will need a pick up and a return. You can either modify the sending unit to use a -10 chunk of solid line in place of the factor pick up, or you can install a bulk head fitting in the bottom of the tank. Remember that this needs to clear debris and what not if you ever plan to go off road, so take that into account. The return can either go through the sending unit to a line that will dump it in the tank away from the pickup or through a bulk head fitting into the bottom of the tank.

Filtration:
You will need a pre pump filter. The Dahl 100 and 150 are both good options, but more expensive. If you do some searching you can get a couple generic filter bases and use standard over the road truck and heavy equipment filters. If you don't go w/the Dahl as youre only filter before the pump, you will need a couple filters. A 30micron or so filter/water seperator before the pump, and then a 4micron or less filter after the pump. The generic bases are usually around $20 or so, and the filters are around $15 a piece. The dahl runs $150ish depending on where you buy it.

Pump:
The aeromotive A1000 is the big dawg, they have a specific diesel rated one (it's black, and a lot about $100 more than the standard red). Supposedly after september of 06 they upgraded the standard red pump to also be diesel compatable. . .they just don't advertise it cause they make so much more on the deisel specific one. A set of super duty pumps in series is a cheaper alternative and is what Brian Thompson is using on his daily driver and making 540+- RWHP

Hose Needs:
You will need -10 supply to the pump. -8 from the pump to the engine works good. -6 works good for the routing on the engine as well as the return back to the tank. Some will say you need -8 for return to cut back on restriction, this is my thought: You put in a regulator to maintain the desired pressure, if the -6 line was too restrictive the pressure would be too high, but even w/-6line you need a pressure regulator. . .so the -6 return works just fine. You will also need some steel line to feed the rear passenger side fuel port. It's very close to the turbo and I didn't dare risk it w/rubber hose.

Regulator:
You need a regulator w/2 inlet ports and 1 outlet port for a fuel injected car so you can achieve youre 60-70psi fuel pressures.

Fittings:
This will depend on what all you run. The fuel ports in the heads are 1/8" pipe. Make sure you pay attention to the lines going into the heads, straight fittings will not work for all of them 45* fittings work very well in a lot of the locations. If you run hard lines to feed the rear ports on the head standard compression fittings work well to connect to the hard line, or you can get a 37* flaring tool and make the connections that way. You will also need a "wye" to split the fuel to each head.

System set up:

-You will run from the pick up of the tank to the prefilter/water seperator.
-From the filter/seperator to the fuel pump.
-From the fuel pump to the final filter.
-From the final filter to the distribution block (wye) to the motor.
-One line from the wye to the front (or rear) of each head.
-Lines from the other end of the heads to the fuel pressure regulator
-Line from the regulator all the way back to wherever you plan to return on the fuel tank.

Extra thoughts: The fuel will get warm from cycling through the head and being pumped so much. You will also be moveing a lot more fuel through the filters. Some prefer a fuel cooler on the return to help keep fuel temps down, its an added cost the performance benefits will be negligable but fuel pump life may be increased. Also, there is no baffle in the tank, so don't let the fuel tank get below 1/4 tank to keep from sucking air (this will also help keep fuel temps down).

For good pricing, contact The Nott Company (309) 699-4673. They are located in Peoria Il if you don't have a good source local to you. Get a list of the parts together that you'll need and let them know. Shoot me a PM if you have any questions.
 

· HP Junky
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4,909 Posts
That $400 doesn't include the cost of the regulated return that I already had on the truck.

The pump, filters, and filter heads all came from Napa. The bowl delete and in tank pick-up came from ITP Diesel, and the hose and fittings came from the local hose shop, EVCO House of Hose. My system uses the 5/8" pick-up with -10an fittings to the prefilter, then -6an fittings and 3/8" from there forward to the motor and on the return to the tank. I also plumbed my pumps in parallel thinking this would increase the volume more so than running them in series.

I have an account at our Napa and Evco so I got a bit of a deal on everything. But I'd be willing to bet you could do it all for $600-700. Not including the reg return. I saved a bunch of money doing it this way, but its a headache. Gathering all the information and parts together was somewhat of a hassle. But it was something I felt confident I could do.

Take your time, do your research, and don't be afraid to ask questions. There are also some pictures of the brackets I built to hold my filters and pumps in one of those links. Feel free to pm me with any specific questions.
 

· Registered
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189 Posts
awesome write-up Trick76cj5 ....

is it possible to get on that rear head fitting near the turbo w/o having to fabricate a hard line?
It is probably doable, but it's tight. The turbo is very close on that corner, I would be afraid of the heat deteriorating the hose and causing a potential fire. The hard line is very easy to make and isn't too expensive, and will allow you to very accuratel run the line down and under the turbo for peace of mind.
 

· All done now
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22,246 Posts
That is save to hard drive Brad. Very well written. As good as pictures.
 

· Registered
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189 Posts
Oh, forgot to mention another thing. The JIC, 37* flare, AN fitting can also be what they call an o-ring boss seal (which is what the A1000 fuel pump and aeromotive fuel pressure regulators use) simply by rolling an o-ring over the threads and into the groove that's cut between the thread and the hex.

Who on earth decided it would be a good idea to give 1 fitting so many different freakin names! :doh:
 

· Vendor
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2,171 Posts
FWIW, o-ring boss fittings do have the same threads, but generally come with the o-ring already installed and without the 37° flared section on the end. Brad is right, you can use a JIC fitting with the addition of an o-ring in a pinch, provided the port you're screwing into has enough depth that the 37° end of the fitting doesn't hit before the o-ring is seated.
 

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2,085 Posts
Yep, an ORFS (o-ring face seal) fitting generally has a jam nut, washer and o-ring already installed. They can be had in any number of different configurations, including JIC. You will thread the ORFS fitting in by hand, aim the JIC end then hold the JIC end with a wrench and tighten the jam nut and washer down on top of the o-ring.

Check out www.mcmaster.com for pictures of the different types of fittings.
 

· Vendor
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2,171 Posts
Yep, an ORFS (o-ring face seal) fitting generally has a jam nut, washer and o-ring already installed. They can be had in any number of different configurations, including JIC. You will thread the ORFS fitting in by hand, aim the JIC end then hold the JIC end with a wrench and tighten the jam nut and washer down on top of the o-ring.

Check out www.mcmaster.com for pictures of the different types of fittings.
I think you're describing an "adjustable" angled (45° or 90°) O-RING BOSS fitting. O-Ring Boss fittings have the o-ring at the base of the threads, next to the hex you put the wrench on.

O-Ring Face Seal fittings have a flat surface at the leading end of the threaded part with an o-ring groove machined into it.

Just for clarification.
 

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2,085 Posts
Ahh, ya - you're right Dennis. Regular O-ring boss just have o-rings, like the plugs for the HPO rails, etc.

ORFS don't have to be 45 or 90's, although they commonly are, they are also available other configurations.
 

· Go Away I'm Baitin
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1,125 Posts
These are the lines we use on our cutters and small boats i have been dealing with them for about 6 years they are pricey but really easy to work with!

hope this will help someone who want to find Quality fuel lines
these are what i will use when i build my system

link: http://www.aeroquip.com/pages/prodinfo.html
 

· <- Sums it up
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· Go Away I'm Baitin
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1,125 Posts
I will also get the part #'s on the fuel filters and filter heads we use on our gen's they have around the same flow rate as a 7.3

They have a 65 psi gear driven fuel pump on them wit the same size lines
 

· 2000 F350 SuperDuty 4x4
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1,003 Posts
Nice writeup trick76cj5!

However, with regard to the pump comment: Two stock pumps in SERIES (that is, the outlet of one pump feeding the inlet of the next) may increase the fuel pressure capability (PSI), but would not increase fuel volume (GPH). Two stock pumps in PARALLEL (inlets and outlets connected together) will increase the total volume available, but the pressure would be the same (all things being equal) and limited by the pump's design. Does that make sense??

I'm running a single stock pump with a "generic" water seperator primary (pre-pump) filter and a "generic" secondary (post pump) filter. Actually, the secondary (filter base) is off of a Cat 3416. But the filters (both primary & secondary) are very readily available at most any part stores that sell medium/heavy truck stuff (NAPA, for example: #3318 Pri & #3334 Sec).

I'll post a pic when I get home...

Again...very nice writeup...
 

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That was my though when I talked to Brian about it. But, while hooking them in series wouldn't seem to increase their ability to displace more volume it seems to work very well. The best I can tell, in his application he is reducing the overall work each pump need to exert to keep up. Since the pumps are not very effective in a suction application, configuring them in series allows the 2 pumps to help each other to keep up with the required flow. Using them in parallel will work as well, and that's how a lot of people configure them. . .just thought the series trick was an interesting idea that has been proven to work.
 
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