[Blackford]

Does anyone have a reasonable explanation why diesel fuel is 55 cents more than regular gas in Northeast PA? I mean besides that gas companies screwing us. That just seems like a huge difference in price, does it really cost that much more to make diesel fuel?

 

[Pocket]

Other than taxes, there really isn't an explanation.

In some parts of the country you can still find diesel fuel for the exact same price or even cheaper than regular unleaded. However, some states do have higher taxes on diesel than gasoline, and at times that difference can be reflected at the pump. However, in your state, there's not a 55 cent per gallon difference.

Some will try to cite a cost difference in the refinery process between gas and diesel, stating that diesel has to go through more processing now than in the past in order to get down the the required sulfur levels. And in part, that's true, but it only adds pennies to the cost per gallon (at the very most), not the huge price difference we currently see.

Of course, why the huge difference in price between regular, mid-grade, and premium gasoline? The additives aren't nearly that costly. Yet there's a huge price disparity anyway.

In short, there's a lot of issues with fuel pricing.

 

[Blackford]

So in other words, there is no explanation?

 

[Dave]

Prices went up due to the change in refining process for ULSD and the additional additive packages necessary

 

[Blackford]

When I bought my truck 8 years ago diesel fuel was about 20-30 cents cheaper than gasoline, now it is 50 cents more, than gasoline. That's around 75 cents it has increase compared to gas.

I can't believe the refining process has changed that much, did it?

 

[Dave]

When I bought my truck 8 years ago diesel fuel was about 20-30 cents cheaper than gasoline, now it is 50 cents more, than gasoline. That's around 75 cents it has increase compared to gas.

I can't believe the refining process has changed that much, did it?

Yup 2-3 extra steps. Plus an extra additive package now too.

 

[Pocket]

No, the refining process didn't change so much as to warrant a 75 cent swing in price compared to gasoline. The refining process and additives (the exact same additives were already being used in LSD, which was cheaper than gasoline in the first place) only adds a few cents per gallon to the cost of diesel.

In case anyone decides to try and argue against me (I know some will try and just flat out state that I'm wrong on everything), first take a look at Canadian prices for diesel vs. gasoline. We provide much of Canada's refined diesel supply, and they use the exact same diesel as we do with the same additives. Yet their diesel is about the same price as gasoline. So explain that first.

 

[Dave]

last I checked Fuel cost more in canada than here.

 

[Greenshield]

Three non-constitutional letters.....EPA. In addition to a European Carbon taxing system, which makes the world supply more costly, we have our own Federal and local Governments tacking on different fees and taxes. Remember that the oil companies are world wide companies. The more it costs for them to produce products in one part of the world, the more they must charge in others to help with costs. Someone else's regulations affect our prices in other words. You gotta remember there are fees and taxes on all of the additives and chemicals as well. Fees are derived mostly from VAT's and environmental regs. THe profit margin on the fuel for the companies sucks when compared to other commodities or products. Were it not for the sheer volume of fuel sold, there would be no profit to be had, the companies would then be either nationalized or go out of business. Both of these scenarios are what the Greeniacs pine for via there forcing down of supply with regs and taxes. Destroy the volume and there is nothing left to earn.

 

[Redline7.3]

He wasn't talking about whether diesel cost more in Canada or here, he was just saying the difference in price between gas and diesel isn't as profound.

 

[LOOSEWHEEL]

FWIW, in Ontario anyway, diesel is cheaper than gas at the moment. Has been for a while but the spread is getting smaller.

US$4.41/US gallon for diesel vs US$4.75/US gallon for regular.

(Exchange rates and gallon size accounted for)

And Canada is the largest supplier of crude oil and refined products to the US.

 

[Blackford]

I don't want this thread to turn into a pissing match. I just wanted to the FACTS, not opinions, about why diesel is so much more than gas.

 

[Pocket]

Three non-constitutional letters.....EPA. In addition to a European Carbon taxing system, which makes the world supply more costly, we have our own Federal and local Governments tacking on different fees and taxes. Remember that the oil companies are world wide companies. The more it costs for them to produce products in one part of the world, the more they must charge in others to help with costs. Someone else's regulations affect our prices in other words. You gotta remember there are fees and taxes on all of the additives and chemicals as well. Fees are derived mostly from VAT's and environmental regs. THe profit margin on the fuel for the companies sucks when compared to other commodities or products. Were it not for the sheer volume of fuel sold, there would be no profit to be had, the companies would then be either nationalized or go out of business. Both of these scenarios are what the Greeniacs pine for via there forcing down of supply with regs and taxes. Destroy the volume and there is nothing left to earn.

The taxes on fuels here in the U.S. are far lower than most other industrialized nations. Mexico is one of the few industrialized countries that has far lower taxes than us, but that's about it. The rest of these developed countries have much higher taxes per gallon of fuel than we do.

 

[Pocket]

I don't want this thread to turn into a pissing match. I just wanted to the FACTS, not opinions, about why diesel is so much more than gas.

Problem is, no one knows why.

Why is it that in Canada diesel and regular unleaded are very close in price, when in the U.S. - and for the exact same fuel that in some cases comes from the exact same refineries - there's such a large price discrepancy?

Also why is there such a large price difference between regular, mid-grade, and premium gasoline?

See my point? There is nothing in regards to production costs, taxes, etc that warrant such a large price difference, especially in the case of diesel vs. gasoline. That is fact.

But that's the only fact we really have. Trying to fill in the gaps as to why the price disparity exists now rests on opinions, conspiracy theories, etc.

 

[Dave]

The reason has been explained Curtis. We cant help that your socialist ass cant accept realityLOL

You also forgot a key thing. Demand for fuel is lower in Canada

 

[Pocket]

The reason has been explained Curtis. We cant help that your socialist ass cant accept realityLOL

Really?

Then please tell me exactly what has been explained in this thread that clearly and without doubt shows why there is such a large pricing disparity between diesel and gasoline throughout much of the country.

In fact, let's go back through this thread and revisit these posts to see exactly what has been explained that shows how oh so wrong I am, and how my "socialist ass cant accept reality"....

Post #4: You claimed that prices difference is due to the change in the refining process for ULSD and additional additives. You repeated this in post #6. Problem here is, how much does the refining process and additive pack of ULSD add to the cost of each gallon of diesel over what we had with LSD previously. Consider LSD also had refining steps to remove sulfur, and required additives. You, nor anyone else, ever put an exact figure on it. So no, you nor anyone else explained it. Plus, here's three problems with that argument. First problem: The refining differences between LSD and ULSD, as well as the additives, are not enough cost difference to warrant such a large price disparity. Second problem: You are ignoring that diesel fuel prices began outpacing gasoline back in 2004 - which happens to be well BEFORE the introduction of ULSD. Third problem: Canada uses some of the exact same diesel fuel that we use, sometimes coming from the exact same refineries. Yet in Canada, diesel fuel can be found for much cheaper than gasoline, or near the same price as regular unleaded.

Post #8: You claimed that fuel costs more in Canada than here. First, you simply gave a blanket statement of all fuel, not just a price difference between diesel and gasoline. Secondly, in post #11 Loosewheel gave us the current Canadian prices (in U.S. dollars) in his area of a gallon of gas and diesel, showing how diesel is still quite cheaper than gasoline.... an entire $0.34 cents cheaper!

Post #9: Greenshield claimed it was the EPA and other environmental groups causing fuel prices to rise. Problem here is that it was a blanket statement about all fuel in general and worldwide, and really had no specific details regarding diesel prices and zero explanation as to why diesel prices jumped far ahead of gasoline in recent years in the U.S.

Which brings us to our last "explanation":

You also forgot a key thing. Demand for fuel is lower in Canada

Ok, so another blanket statement about all fuel in general. Tell me again how that explains the price difference between gas vs. diesel. Tell me also how come diesel, in some cases coming from the exact same refineries, is 50+ cents more expensive per gallon than gasoline in the U.S., but 30+ cent cheaper per gallon than gasoline in Canada?


See.... you nor anyone else has explained anything yet. Not only that, but what little explanation was attempted has been blown apart with huge loopholes that so far you have blatantly refused to acknowledge. :doh:

 

[Blackford]

I have to agree. I can't say there are any sound facts backing up these claims. Unfortunately I don't think we will ever find out why diesel costs more. Maybe supply and demand, being that there are more diesel pickup trucks on the road now then there was 10 years ago. But I'm sure the only real answer is...there is no answer.

 

[Dave]

Ok, so another blanket statement about all fuel in general. Tell me again how that explains the price difference between gas vs. diesel. Tell me also how come diesel, in some cases coming from the exact same refineries, is 50+ cents more expensive per gallon than gasoline in the U.S., but 30+ cent cheaper per gallon than gasoline in Canada?



Gee I dont know. Different additive packages and fuel requirements. Canada doesnt mandate 5% biodiesel either.

 

[Pocket]

Gee I dont know. Different additive packages and fuel requirements. Canada doesnt mandate 5% biodiesel either.

Same ULSD, same additives. Canada has the same requirements on their fuels as we do. They also implemented these requirements at the same time as the U.S.

The U.S. doesn't mandate 5% biodiesel. A few states might, but the U.S. as a whole doesn't.

 

[Dave]

Most states have mandated a min of b2 for almost 10 years now Curtis. Many are B5.

Nearly all fuel suppliers use different additive packages. Im guessing you dont know what an additive package is?