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So I know how the 7.3s and 6.0s ran on the hpop systems and how all that worked, but I'm not sure how the 6.4s work since I believe they have the cp3 and a hpop? Do all common rails have to have a cp3 or cp4 or some sort of injection pump like these?
 

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EA - Eggfarts Anonymous!
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welcome to the forum!
i think the new piezo injectors are pretty cool, though the overall system has weak points... anyway, the 6.4 has a HPFP (high pressure fuel pump, but not sure if it is a 'cp3' like you mentioned) not a HPOP... HPFP pumps the diesel fuel up to iirc 25,000 psi to the injectors. on the 6.4, the injectors are fed their fuel just like 6.0s and 7.3s, through some banjo bolts hooked up to the heads...but i think the injectors are fed through tubes making it essentially common rail. The injectors don't have the old fashioned EM solenoids, but instead have a stack of piezo waffers, each with a cathode and anode. when you give it a voltage, you get a small amount of expansion & therefore actuation (very cool physics going on there!). the great thing about it is that you have very precise control over your fuel that way. much tighter than the old HEUI systems

anyway, subscribed! i've got lots more to learn on these newer fuel delivery systems as it is.
 

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They actually use a K16 hpfp pump... and yes it is driven off the cam gear. Everything else, turd covered.
Lol

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk
 

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Master BS'er
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Pretty good explanation. But it's not essentially a common rail, it is a common rail. That's all common rail means. Fuel fed into a common fuel rail which feeds the injectors, exactly like a gas engine only way higher pressures.

No, it isn't the cp3 pump, not sure what the pump is called, I'll take idi's word for it. It sits in exactly the same spot and is driven in exactly the same way as the 6.0. Infact the block and lower ends are the same as far as I can tell. The cool thing about piezo injectors is they are so much faster than solenoids. So now we can inject fuel up to 8 times in one stroke! 2 pilot injections, 3 main injections and one post event, and not sure what comes after that or why. But essentially it's more of a controlled push down instead of a chaotic let her rip like diesels used to be.

Lots of benefits to this type of control, including cleaner burns, more power, better economy and most of all, avoiding fuel knock that makes diesels so loud. Notice how they've gotten a lot quieter the last few years? Thank piezo injectors for it.

Yes all common rails have a high pressure fuel pump. It's still called an injection pump sometimes, though technically injection pumps are on the older mechanically timed diesels of old.

I really love common rail stuff. I like HEUI too, but let's face it, technologies are cool. If I could buy a diesel I'd pick either a 6.4 or 6.7 powerstoke. But alas, I'm stuck with a Chevy Malibu.

The super high pressures are needed for two reasons. First so the fuel atomizes easier do to being such a fine mist. Secondly, the pressure has to be supper high if you have five to eight events taking place in one power stroke.
 

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EA - Eggfarts Anonymous!
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They actually use a K16 hpfp pump... and yes it is driven off the cam gear. Everything else, turd covered.
Lol

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk
Sometimes im messy, with a few unsure spurts, but overall it comes out alright just needs some cleanup afterwards!
 

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Master BS'er
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Fun fact, the puedo injector was developed based on the patent on ink jet printer nozzles, Ford paid for Siemens Intel property on it i believe.
Did not know that. I figured it was a Bosch thing, seems like most everything else is
 

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Master BS'er
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are these cp3/4 pumps not driven directly from the engine? i believe the 6.4's fuels pump is in the valley & driven from the crank.
They are. They are still driven from the cam but in the front of it instead of the back. They just stick right into the front cover. Doesn't make them any easier to change though...stupid Dodge. Im not sure about GM but I know it's not by a belt so it would have to be by the cam. Some trucks have multiple pumps in which case you'll see them driven by a belt. But that's usually competition type stuff.

So I just checked and you were right Turd. It is not a common rail, . I just assumed it was and never actually looked, since I never did any work on the 6.4's fuel system. Makes me wonder about the 6.7. is that a common rail?
 

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EA - Eggfarts Anonymous!
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They are. They are still driven from the cam but in the front of it instead of the back. They just stick right into the front cover. Doesn't make them any easier to change though...stupid Dodge. Im not sure about GM but I know it's not by a belt so it would have to be by the cam. Some trucks have multiple pumps in which case you'll see them driven by a belt. But that's usually competition type stuff.

So I just checked and you were right Turd. It is not a common rail, . I just assumed it was and never actually looked, since I never did any work on the 6.4's fuel system. Makes me wonder about the 6.7. is that a common rail?
i'm pretty sure the 6.7 is a true common rail as the term goes... this 6.4 sure is a helluva Frankenstein of a motor when you think about it!
 
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