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Discussion Starter #1
Hello -- I use dielse kleen. My question is do you use your fuel add's on every fill or every couple... looking for your opinions or suggestions... cheers
 

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Use it every fill-up. DK is pretty good and widely available, so you could stick with that or try other additives. I had good luck with it and didn't gain anything going with a more expensive additive, when this stuff is used up I'll go back to DK.
 

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Every fill up. The big thing is lubricity. Odds are your fuel does not even meet the min ASE standard. This is even worse in the winter if you are in a colder climate that goes to a #1/#2 blend. It was bad enough in cold months before USLD not the normal is like the winter and the the winter is even worse. With bio starting to get widespread for 2% blend in reg diesel this is becoming less and less of an issue. Although it still will likely never meet the engine manf associations min standards. So every fill up IMO.

I run Schaeffers Bio Shield and pick up 1.0 mpg on average, more in the winter. The injectors are also noticeably quieter. It does raise cetane as well as lubricity etc..
 

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I use outboard 2 cycle motor oil in mine every fill up.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks -- I will use it every fill I really like it alot... Also Tarm I read your post RE Bio D.. very interesting. I have only had a diesle for 6 months Its like learning a whole new language... I love it! :ford:

Normally I do every 3 fill ups it just didnt make sense to me doing it that way... Thanks guys
 

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Lubrication Addict!!
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Birdog: Do some reading here----->
Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place

Spicer really did great job within his study...

Even though the test was not perfect it did shed alot a light on products that work and don't. Do some reading and judge for yourself, which products u want to spend your hard earned dollars on.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Wow great read very interesting.... So do you think many of our dielse engine issues can be traced back to poor dielse... IE injector rings, injectors ect.


Cheers
 

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Wow great read very interesting.... So do you think many of our dielse engine issues can be traced back to poor dielse... IE injector rings, injectors ect.


Cheers
Being able to definitively prove something like that is near impossible. But consider the the fact that both the SAE and Engine Manf Association both put out minimum ratings for lubricity. The later set a higher min. Since moving to reduce sulphur in diesel fuel broad testing done by the SAE has found that up to 70% of all diesel fuel found in this country does not meet even their min standards which lower than the Engine Manf Ass and remember these are min not ideal specs. They usually do not set and test for min specs on things that are pointless.
 

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Birdog: Do some reading here----->
Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place

Spicer really did great job within his study...

Even though the test was not perfect it did shed alot a light on products that work and don't. Do some reading and judge for yourself, which products u want to spend your hard earned dollars on.
Just remember that the study is almost 5 years old now and many of those products have changed their formulations to improve the products and be more compatible with fuel these days. Many things have changed in our fuels such as being low sulpher, different blends for summer and winter etc. The additive companies have been trying to keep up with all these changes. The point is what was good or bad in that study may be completely different now.
 

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Birdog: Do some reading here----->
Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place

Spicer really did great job within his study...

Even though the test was not perfect it did shed alot a light on products that work and don't. Do some reading and judge for yourself, which products u want to spend your hard earned dollars on.
All that so called "study" does is show what gives what lubricity. Not much of anything.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/gasoline/meeting/2003/022003bosch.pdf

That is a much better study which we can use to extrapolate roughly what the effects of what lubricity gives. From that study, I see that the "cost" of my NOT using the stuff is approximately 10% of the injector life. What is a rebuild worth? Take 10% of that price. After all, the injectors are going to be rebuilt and we are not assuming that they will explode into a million pieces. So say it cost me $2000 to rebuild, approximately, I will lose $200 by not using the snake oils. How much snake oil does it cost me to save $200? If it costs less, I make out. If it costs more, I am saving $200 at the expense of say $400 over the lifetime of the injectors. So, is it worth it?
 

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Headwind Magnet
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Thanks to MJ and Aklim for their posts. I did not realize the first study was a little dated and I hadn't seen the Bosch presentation.

I don't know the right answer here; I've been using Optilube but its kinda expensive and only available via mail order. I found a local Stanadyne dealer and have been considering switching.

Aklim, your point on the 10% cost is well taken. I'm just not sure its a linear equation. Injector performance will deteriorate over time rather than a sudden failure due to a lack of lubricity. Adding lubricity could reduce the wear on the injectors to the point that ultimate failure is a result of normal wear-and-tear rather than the unique wear caused by a lack of lubricity. The deterioration in injector performance caused by a lack of lubricity could be negligible or it could be measureable, but given a normal lifespan of 250,000 miles, I don't think we'll ever know the answer.

The question that occured to me while reading the Bosch presentation quickly is what is the effect on the HEUI system. Are they more or less prone to wear than the VE or rotory pump?

I do know that using a fuel additive provides a peace of mind that I am doing what I can to prevent my newly overhauled injectors from wearing out prematurely.

Best,
Jim
 

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I'm just not sure its a linear equation.

Injector performance will deteriorate over time rather than a sudden failure due to a lack of lubricity. Adding lubricity could reduce the wear on the injectors to the point that ultimate failure is a result of normal wear-and-tear rather than the unique wear caused by a lack of lubricity. The deterioration in injector performance caused by a lack of lubricity could be negligible or it could be measureable, but given a normal lifespan of 250,000 miles, I don't think we'll ever know the answer.

The question that occured to me while reading the Bosch presentation quickly is what is the effect on the HEUI system. Are they more or less prone to wear than the VE or rotory pump?

I do know that using a fuel additive provides a peace of mind that I am doing what I can to prevent my newly overhauled injectors from wearing out prematurely.
The graph is reasonably linear in the test. Obviously it doesn't go from 0 to 1000 but it does fall in the range we need. IMO.

I agree that it deteriorate over time. What that graph shows is that the lifespan gets less as the HFFR score goes up. More importantly, it isn't just doing a theoretical number. They are using an example of the typical components in the fuel system. That is what I was thinking when I looked at the study. I can't see why extrapolating from that graph, we would be wrong in estimating how the injector life would be affected when we go from the desired 460 to the current 520.

Not sure. I would think that the most accurate test would be to get a representative set of injectors to make sure that the projections are spot on. IOW, they would have to test each and every type of component. Something the peddlers of the snake oil haven't even come close to doing? That the peddlers of the stuff refuse to do that sort of test, seeing as how it would boost their sales tremendously, makes me wonder why. That is, unless the product will not show the desired results.

I will agree that the snake oil does give some life. What I have yet to see is whether the cost is worth the outcome. If it saves me $200 but costs me $400, is it worth it? If you want max life, damn the cost, sure. This is like if we were racing. I'd want even 1/2 HP for $5000 because it might help me with the huge purse and endorsements. OTOH, for most of us, we wouldn't pay that much for so little increase in power.

My skepticism comes from the fact that the peddlers of the product refuse to publish proper results and instead rely on testimonials of hacks an unknown people to sell the product. Makes me think it is something shady.
 

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Headwind Magnet
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The graph is reasonably linear in the test. Obviously it doesn't go from 0 to 1000 but it does fall in the range we need. IMO.

I agree that it deteriorate over time. What that graph shows is that the lifespan gets less as the HFFR score goes up. More importantly, it isn't just doing a theoretical number. They are using an example of the typical components in the fuel system. That is what I was thinking when I looked at the study. I can't see why extrapolating from that graph, we would be wrong in estimating how the injector life would be affected when we go from the desired 460 to the current 520.

Not sure. I would think that the most accurate test would be to get a representative set of injectors to make sure that the projections are spot on. IOW, they would have to test each and every type of component. Something the peddlers of the snake oil haven't even come close to doing? That the peddlers of the stuff refuse to do that sort of test, seeing as how it would boost their sales tremendously, makes me wonder why. That is, unless the product will not show the desired results.

I will agree that the snake oil does give some life. What I have yet to see is whether the cost is worth the outcome. If it saves me $200 but costs me $400, is it worth it? If you want max life, damn the cost, sure. This is like if we were racing. I'd want even 1/2 HP for $5000 because it might help me with the huge purse and endorsements. OTOH, for most of us, we wouldn't pay that much for so little increase in power.

My skepticism comes from the fact that the peddlers of the product refuse to publish proper results and instead rely on testimonials of hacks an unknown people to sell the product. Makes me think it is something shady.
Thanks for the reply - excellent post! Definitely food for thought.

I have to admit that one of the reasons I have been considering switching to Stanadyne is when I emailed Optilube for some additional information on their products' formulation, I got a very polite - and very vague - response. Kinda a buzz-kill. Got me thinking that if I am to continue spending money on this type of product that perhaps I should go with a company that actually manufactures injection systems.

I hesitate to not use some sort of product because there seems to be so much variation in the quality of diesel here in the states. The Bosch study seemed verify that.

Best,
Jim
 

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I hesitate to not use some sort of product because there seems to be so much variation in the quality of diesel here in the states. The Bosch study seemed verify that.

Best,
Jim
I know they did tests and found that quality varies. Question is that was then. Problem is nobody has done a "now" test. When LSD came out, there were teething issues. I wonder what the results will show if we did the test today.
 

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What is with the rev-x stuff?? anybody knows something????
 

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Headwind Magnet
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I know they did tests and found that quality varies. Question is that was then. Problem is nobody has done a "now" test. When LSD came out, there were teething issues. I wonder what the results will show if we did the test today.
Maybe someone else can answer that, cause I sure can't! I will say that lacking a financial reason (profit) to do so, there would be very little reason for diesel quality to improve...
Best,
Jim
 

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What is with the rev-x stuff?? anybody knows something????
That is an oil additve rather than a fuel additive that is supposed to help with "stiction" problems on the 6.0. If you do a search you'll find plenty of posts on the subject. I haven't paid all that much attention to it since I've got a 7.3.
Best,
Jim
 

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That is an oil additve rather than a fuel additive that is supposed to help with "stiction" problems on the 6.0. If you do a search you'll find plenty of posts on the subject. I haven't paid all that much attention to it since I've got a 7.3.
Best,
Jim
With the HEUI system, I'd be leery about anything in the oil. If any of that stuff plugs up the passageways or causes foaming or the oil to lose foaming properties, it could be bad.
 

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Oil additives arent necessary in these engines. Like Aklim said it can be detrimental to performance or perpetuate problems...

Ive used additives since the switch from diesel to lsd to ulsd but I dont see improvement anymore. Perhaps with the fuel nowadays I need to add even more. Or none at all...
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I have been told that Cetatene boost is not needed, during the summer... what are your opinions.... Thanks
 
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