[gregrob]

Flow of fuel through the heads

Ok guys I'm in a DIY mood again.

Gonna build myself a regulated return kit.

I already have the regulator I'm gonna use, and I ordered the pre pump mods from Dennis at ITP.

Gonna get a filter head from IH for the pre pump filter as well.

What is the best way to route it through the heads?

I'm thinking go in the back of the heads (1/8" NPT right?), out the front, into the regulator, and then return from the reg.

What's the best way to tie into the factory lines? I'm sure I can double clamp the return? what about the supply?

Also, is a 2 mic filter too restrictive for pre pump?
Thinking about only running one filter pre pump, but if a 2 mic is too restrictive for that I will run a 30 pre pump and 2 post.

I know I know, just buy the kit from Dennis or DI, but I don't have the cash scraped up for it and just wanna DIY in the mean time.

 

[Short Bus]

i run 30 mic pre, 2 or 3 mic post and feed the back of the heads. What are the pre pump mods?

 

[gregrob]

Mostly what everybody calls the "hutch" mod or in tank/pre pump mods.

http://guzzle.rbmicro.com/hutch.html

http://www.itpdiesel.com/store.php?crn=152&rn=276&action=show_detail

 

[Short Bus]

dang that looks liek alot of work.

 

[gregrob]

I'm gonna find out.

I HATE FUEL KNOCK

 

[skylinedan]

You could go 5/16' compresion to tee the plumb the lines from each head to it. I don't know the size tubing your gonna use, but when I did my fuel experiment I used 5/16' tubing. I have a whole bunch of 1/8" to 5/16" flare fitttings.

Dan

 

[gregrob]

Dan, exactly what I needed to know. Thanks!

Where do I get these fittings? 5/16's is the stock hard line size?

 

[CooterBrown]

roosterdiesel built his own, send him a pm or he may chime in tonight.

 

[LarryM]

Greg,

I have a lot of thoughts on this and for now will only give you one for the pre-filter. I would only use a Dahl eirther 2 micron or 10 micron pre pump. IMHO it's the best filter water separator out there that has been proven both in the field and in Lab analysis to effective separate water from the fuel. Also, there can be significant air problems in using a filter not designed for a pre pump application. I can't go into the details because of potential copyright problems, but I sent you a link that has the majority of the unpublished memo that I actually have a copy of. Basically the end point was that a filter combo was filled with diesel submerged in a 55 gal drum and of course it sunk to the bottom. The filter was inverted with the element up and fuel was sent thru the filter and guess what. After a few minutes the filter came to the surface because of the air released by the filter.:lame::badidea:

Also our factory filter is a 2 micron and as designed does have and has been shown to remove some "free" air from the fuel and many filters are not designed or effective at the full flow rates of even our factory pumps. Our factory filter sure isn't.

Larry

 

[LarryM]

I really don't like feeding the heads with any of the factory fittings especially with a full flow fuel system that most of the regulated systems use. Remember you're forcing fuel thru the follow two fittings (fuel check valves and fuel rail plug). The second link (last three photos in that album on page 2 of the album) shows the fuel rail plug including the part number where the fuel enters a banjo type fitting and is forced thru those holes and then out the hollow area inside the threads.

http://rides.webshots.com/album/37212014gltcTB

http://rides.webshots.com/album/30760583mYdyzWSgEp

I really, really like something like Ford_Forgoten has done and was similiar to what the pre 1998.5 E-series used and was a bleeder arrangement.

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1029708511034160182ByvRiwOdoz

Of course outside of the Dahl Pre-Pump and a way to monitor potential pre pump air problems my fuel system is still stock from the pump forward.

Larry

 

[gregrob]

Since we're on the subject. What about FASS and AirDog?

 

[RockinJW]

My feed lines will go in the front of the heads and out the back to the regulator then to the return to the tank.

All of my fittings will be 6AN, it's about equivalant to 3/8"

 

[LarryM]

Since we're on the subject. What about FASS and AirDog?

IMHO they, at least the AirDog are good, but I still would worry about water separation with anything but a Dahl and if you're not willing to spend the $$$$ on a Reg Return kit you're really beyond your budget considering one of those two options. If I could use my Dahl feeding an Air dog with just it's air removal function and not dumping the return with all the free air in it via the vent tube :lame: and :badidea: IMHO then I might consider at least the AirDog if money was no object.

Instead of the Hutch mod and you want to go a modified pickup route I really liked DI's "sump fitting" that he offered at one time. It provided somewhat of a baffled pickup up area like the E-series steel tank has and takes fuel from a more stable non sloshing area of the tank.


Larry

 

[gregrob]

What about using a 100 mic pre pump filter that is just an inline filter?

 

[LarryM]

What about using a 100 mic pre pump filter that is just an inline filter?

I would run from that as fast and far as possible. They can release air, ice up bad causing fuel pump failures and other problems.

Boy you're going to get me into trouble here with a couple of Sponsors if I'm not careful. Many have used some of this stuff w/o problems, some with problems ... but my view is my view so take it for what's worth. I did a ton of work on this stuff back in 2002 even to the extent of riding around with THIS for almost a month which was a real eye opener in this whole air in fuel issue and how the factory system and filter handled these issues. I even ended up installing both a fuel manifold HERE (look at the rest of the pics in that album) and a in cab fuel restriction gauge HERE along with an air filter restriction guage (two of my best mods over the EGT and tranny temp gauges done) to date.

I'm except for the Ford engineers that did the documentation on off-road.com's vehicle back around 2000 is the only person to try and analyize the idle knock/cackle phenomenon with scientific equipment as documented in these two albums ....

http://rides.webshots.com/album/36384814ZdgmoV

http://rides.webshots.com/album/36326917xRgHoo

It can be a significant issue, it's just my Van doesn't have it enough to take drastic measures.

Larry

 

[cemeyer]

I'm building a system with -10 pickup to -10 line to dahl 150, -10 to bosch 044 pump, -8 to aero 100 micron post pump, -8 to aero y-block, (2) -6 to rear of heads(custom fittings), (2)-4 out of 1/8 ports on front of heads to aero regulator, -6 for the return. Do you guys see any problems with this? If so what should I do to correct the problem?

 

[DarkShadowDiesel]

greg, i built my own. let me know if you want my parts list and stuff. i feed from front to back, but will probably be feeding from the ports on the back of the heads by the up pipes soon hopefully. the compression fittings can be had at home depot. 3/8" on the feed, 5/16" on the return.
i have an FASS 150/150 and like it a lot. you could give one of those a try with a high pressure pump and kill two birds with one stone. to install it take the bed off it's easier than dropping the tank. let me know if there's anything else.

 

[gregrob]

DSD, that would be great if you could shoot me the parts list or post it up.

I'm still kickin around how I'm going to do it.
We actually did it on my buddies OBS so I'm going to take a look at his system too and refresh my memory on everything.

His was a little more involved as we had to add the electric pump and plumb from the tank to the pump to the filter to the engine.
I just want to tie into the factory feed and return lines for now.

Thanks!

 

[strokin_early_99]

I'm building a system with -10 pickup to -10 line to dahl 150, -10 to bosch 044 pump, -8 to aero 100 micron post pump, -8 to aero y-block, (2) -6 to rear of heads(custom fittings), (2)-4 out of 1/8 ports on front of heads to aero regulator, -6 for the return. Do you guys see any problems with this? If so what should I do to correct the problem?

Your post pump is too big. You need a 2-3micron filter before it gets to the injectors. That much I did understand from the above posts.

 

[strokin_early_99]

I am feeding the front of the heads with -6 line. I also put the 1/8" NPT on the lathe and bored the centers out to 1/4" ID for unrestricted flow. I put -4 in the rear of the heads for the return lines. I am going to do some testing with the factory pump to see if it can keep up with this system. I have one part left to finish the system in the morning. I am using a Napa 16 micron filter/water separator pre pump and Napa 2 micron post pump. The tank pickup has been "hutched".

Keep Strokin'