[wjamesm]

:ford: Hello all this is my first post since I found this place , I wondered why TDS was so dead lately. but any how I saw that this was tested in the new issue of Deisel Power and they said that it really worked ,I was wondering if any one on here has tried it and did it indeed work. not really looking to buy it right now ,have to pay for my ats housing first, but if it really does increase mileage it may be my next upgrade

 

[Charles]

With respect to "treating" fuel without actually changing its chemical makeup (like for example Cetane boosters, oxidizers and so on...) the only way to make more power with fuel is to remove the air in a given quantity of fuel or supply more of the fuel.

Answer what effect this thing can have on #2 diesel fuel, and how it could have that effect. Does it pump more fuel? Does it remove the air that's in the fuel already passing it? And if so on either of those, how?

Then chose.

 

[Pocket]

Sounds like one of those inline magnets in the fuel lines. :lame:

Read their FAQ, it's the most vague pile of crap I've seen. I especially like how it talks about bacteria and stuff in the fuel, but they nevery say they remove it. They just "reformulate" the fuel. Sounds like pixie dust to me.

"I'll believe that when me #### turns purple, and smells like rainbow sherbert."

 

[Haul_n_horses2]

:ford: Hello all this is my first post since I found this place , I wondered why TDS was so dead lately. but any how I saw that this was tested in the new issue of Deisel Power and they said that it really worked ,I was wondering if any one on here has tried it and did it indeed work. not really looking to buy it right now ,have to pay for my ats housing first, but if it really does increase mileage it may be my next upgrade

This just confirms that the Diesel rags will whore any product from a sponsor................

 

[southmike]

With respect to "treating" fuel without actually changing its chemical makeup (like for example Cetane boosters, oxidizers and so on...) the only way to make more power with fuel is to remove the air in a given quantity of fuel or supply more of the fuel.

pretty much it..unless they find a way too make it burn quicker and cleaner
but your dealing with something more chemical there or changing things like injector nozzles,

myth busters did a semi trial on 1/2 dozen devices..
all failed ,some even made the milage worse.

the only thing that i have seen that may help performance, indirectly
are the bacteria removing devices/chemicals .
But they are mainly for marine diesel applications,
as their fuel sits around more often. I think the truck pumps etc cycle the fuel
more often so water, sludge ,bacteria etc aren't as much as a problem as they are with boats.

 

[69W900A]

You forgot heat. Cooling the fuel, like removing the air in it, will create more dense fuel. Some engine manufactures I deal with have fuel temp senders that will adjust PW and increase fuel rates as the temp of the fuel increases.

This goes along with supplying more fuel though just like removing air supplies more fuel.

 

[Charles]

Removing air does more than adding fuel. When there is air in the fuel the biggest hit comes in the piss-poor atomization and general disruption to nearly everything, including injection timing. Nothing is "stable" with air in the fuel.

And I don't buy "cooler" fuel for one minute. What's the rate of thermal expansion for diesel fuel again? What's the volume change over a 100 degree range? What's the mass of that volume?

:shrug:

I don't see it. That doesn't mean it isn't there. It just means that I cannot see how. That's like accounting for the compression of hydraulic fluid when designing a hydraulic circuit. Over nearly any operating range it's simply a non-issue, verging on immeasurable.

 

[69W900A]

Well, on the engine dyno I have seen on the engines that look at fuel temp a increase of around .5ms of PW at full load with an increase in fuel temperature. I couldn't tell you what the rate of thermal expansion is for diesel fuel. It would also have to be calculated on a as-formulated basis since diesel fuel and additive blends change from state to state and station to station.

What I can tell you is there are a number of engine manufactures that have fuel temperature sensors for a reason. They all increase PW as fuel temperature increases. I have also seen first hand that there is a difference in power output (albeit small) on the engine dyno when I have turned the fuel temperature sensor off and run hot fuel the power output goes down. Turn the sensor back on with the same temp fuel and power output goes up. Fuel temp, while not the most important factor to consider does have some affect on performance and fuel economy just as air entrainment and chemical composition does.

I don't think comparing fuel temperature vs power output and the compressive characteristics of hydraulic fluid is a worthwhile endeavor. From the people I've worked with at Caterpillar and Komatsu I believe that the compression of a fluid in the hydraulic system is taken into account depending on the type of system used. I'm not really sure how in depth that analysis is as I'm just learning about the latest high performance load sensing hydraulic systems in the new equipment.

 

[Charles]

I wonder if the hot fuel is vaporizing worse through the filtration and causing there to be more air in the fuel.

I know fuel temp is one of the two reasons that fuel vaporizes (aerates) in the first place. Maybe they are compensating for aeration, not expansion.

 

[69W900A]

It could be they are compensating for increased aeration. The fuel temp sensor is generally in the fuel rail and/or return line on the engine itself though. I wonder if they were trying to deal with aeration through the filter they would want to know temp before and after the filter? I suppose if they know one temperature they can extrapolate the unknown temp with enough accuracy to accomplish their goals.

One engine manufacture told me the reason they use a fuel temp sensor is to compensate for the density change in the fuel. I tried to get more information from him, but he basically stated that fuel density is the only reason they use the temp reference. Whether that is true or they just didn't want to give me any more information at the time I couldn't say.

 

[Charles]

I don't buy any practical change in diesel fuel volume within normal operating temperature ranges. But I will attempt to find out the coefficient of thermal expansion for #2 diesel fuel and see if I can figure it out.