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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone. I’m not new to the forum, but I do believe this is the first time I’ve posted. I have a question specific to my current situation. I have a 2004 f250 6.0. I recently bought an sct livewire ts+. I have not put a tune on the truck yet because I have motor work I want to do before that happens. I was checking out all the pid’s it allows me to see, and I noticed my coolant temp sits between 178 and 180 while driving. Now my oil temp will get up to 205 going down the freeway at 65mph not towing or going up hill. I’ve read elsewhere that the coolant should be around 190, and mine never gets that high. Supposedly this truck has sinister diesel oil and egr coolers in it. I don’t really know. Is this “delta” cause for alarm? I’m ready to buy new oil cooler and egr cooler for it if I have to. I have to get in there and fix an egr insufficient flow problem anyway to pass emissions here in turd bucket California. I have done 2 weeks worth of reading on this, and everything I’ve read tells me it’s time for an oil cooler. Any information would be greatly appreciate. Looking for outside opinions on this. I don’t have anyone else to talk to about this.
Thanks in advance.
Nick


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So, from what I've seen in these forums any spread greater than 15 is cause for concern. I can tell you that my 03 is EGR deleted, running stock location oil cooler, and today in Alabama was at Max 180-187 coolant and oil (I usually have about a 7deg spread between them - Houston summer was near 200deg if not slightly above). If you have a relocation kit (post a pic of the engine bay if you're unsure) then the delta equation is different. But, if you're running a stock location you may be in for work.
 

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Typically, yes, anything with a 15 degree difference is cause for alarm, so long as that reading is taken on a fully warmed up truck, running 55-60MPH for 20 minutes on flat-ish road, with minimal headwind, and not towing or hauling anything. So, if your numbers were taken with those parameters, you've probably got a clogged oil cooler. However, lets make sure your ECT numbers are right first. 178-180 is low. Possibly you have the wrong thermostat, but it's also possible your sensor is off. Let your engine cool for a good 10 hours or so. Check your EOT and ECT with the engine off, key on, with a cold engine. They should both be about the same (within a couple degrees) and they should be within a couple degrees of the ambient air temperature. If all is well there, I'd replace your t-stat with a new Ford one and then repeat your delta test. If one or both of the sensors is off significantly, I'd address that issue first.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Ok, so I did the road test after the coolant flush, and that didn’t change anything. What I drained out of the radiator wasn’t terrible either. I did wind up replacing the thermostat, with a new ford unit, and that increased both my coolant and oil temps 10 degrees after driving it for a good 20 minutes or so. My sensors read almost the same after a cold soak, and may differ from each other and ambient temperature plus or minus 2-3 degrees. I have talked to a few others about this issue, and they convinced me to get get rid of the sinister oil cooler and an oem ford oil cooler. The sinister cooler is maybe 2 years old, and my coolant was replaced when the sinister oil cooler was done. So while I’m replacing the oil cooler over the weekend, I’m also going to have my intake manifold hot tanked to get all the crud out. I pulled the IAT2 sensor and it was nasty. I also have an egr insufficient flow problem, so I’m hoping that the problem is that the intake is clogged up. We will see. Pointers for the egr thing would be great also. I appreciate the replies, and information. I love this truck, and want to make it last as long as possible.

Typically, yes, anything with a 15 degree difference is cause for alarm, so long as that reading is taken on a fully warmed up truck, running 55-60MPH for 20 minutes on flat-ish road, with minimal headwind, and not towing or hauling anything. So, if your numbers were taken with those parameters, you've probably got a clogged oil cooler. However, lets make sure your ECT numbers are right first. 178-180 is low. Possibly you have the wrong thermostat, but it's also possible your sensor is off. Let your engine cool for a good 10 hours or so. Check your EOT and ECT with the engine off, key on, with a cold engine. They should both be about the same (within a couple degrees) and they should be within a couple degrees of the ambient air temperature. If all is well there, I'd replace your t-stat with a new Ford one and then repeat your delta test. If one or both of the sensors is off significantly, I'd address that issue first.





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Here’s a picture of the engine bay. Everything is stock except for the fancy bolt ons. I just added an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and gauge also. I wanted to make sure my fuel is where it’s supposed to be.





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Omg.... *smacks forehead* I totally missed the part about you having a sinister oil cooler!!!! Supposedly those have larger coolant passages to prevent clogging, but I've never seen a cross-sectional cut done on one to know for sure. Did it have the Ford Gold coolant in it when you drained? Also, when you did the flush, did you do a reverse flush? If you didn't do the reverse, you might want to try that. That's what finally got mine clear. And as for coolant, stick with an EC-1 rated RED coolant.

Tips on the EGR? If your local laws allow, delete it. If laws don't allow that, but you want the benefits, look up the block-off style...essentially it leaves the cooler in place but the passages are welded shut. If that's not an option, they do sell high flow units which are supposed to not have a rupture concern. Although, regardless, if the oil cooler is kept flowing well, it should never rupture. What other things are you wanting to know on the EGR system?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well when I get the sinister cooler out, I’m going to cut it in half to see what it looks like. I will post pictures of it after I cut it. My truck did have the ford gold coolant it, but only for about a year, and roughly 15k miles. I did both normal and reverse flush, and no change at all. I had talked to sinister about there oil cooler and they claim I should be getting oem delta. As for the egr, I think I know 90% of the causes for low flow. I will just have to take it one step at a time. I’m hoping something is just clogged up. I pulled my IAT2 sensor and it was caked with black ####, so I know the intake is in bad shape!

Omg.... *smacks forehead* I totally missed the part about you having a sinister oil cooler!!!! Supposedly those have larger coolant passages to prevent clogging, but I've never seen a cross-sectional cut done on one to know for sure. Did it have the Ford Gold coolant in it when you drained? Also, when you did the flush, did you do a reverse flush? If you didn't do the reverse, you might want to try that. That's what finally got mine clear. And as for coolant, stick with an EC-1 rated RED coolant.



Tips on the EGR? If your local laws allow, delete it. If laws don't allow that, but you want the benefits, look up the block-off style...essentially it leaves the cooler in place but the passages are welded shut. If that's not an option, they do sell high flow units which are supposed to not have a rupture concern. Although, regardless, if the oil cooler is kept flowing well, it should never rupture. What other things are you wanting to know on the EGR system?





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Something mysterious happened today! Well let me digress. A few days ago I put a tune on my truck and turned off the egr with my livewire. Well yesterday I wound up restoring it back to the stock tune because the motor isn’t ready for my right foot. After driving it today for about 50 miles knowing in my heart that stupid little yellow light would come back on, well my egr monitor went to ready state. No more egr flow code as of right now. This has never happened in the entire 2 years of owning this truck with that stupid engine light on because the egr. Now it wants to work for now. Figures! Right before I have to rip the intake manifold off!


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Ok, so now that I understand what you're wanting to know about the EGR, your best bet is to delete the EGR cooler and get a tune which turns off the code light for it. The EGR cooler basically contributes to the depositing of soot all over your intake, which mucks up your IAT. But, if you have to keep the cooler and the EGR intact, your best bet is to really clean the valve well and install it with new o-rings. After that, you should be good for a year or two before it will need cleaning again...based on most experiences I have read about.

And it sounds like that tune you have may have been messing with things a bit. Might want to consider a different tune?
 

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Well when I get the sinister cooler out, I’m going to cut it in half to see what it looks like. I will post pictures of it after I cut it. My truck did have the ford gold coolant it, but only for about a year, and roughly 15k miles. I did both normal and reverse flush, and no change at all. I had talked to sinister about there oil cooler and they claim I should be getting oem delta. As for the egr, I think I know 90% of the causes for low flow. I will just have to take it one step at a time. I’m hoping something is just clogged up. I pulled my IAT2 sensor and it was caked with black ####, so I know the intake is in bad shape!

That's funny right there. They know's damn good & well that their pos oil cooler never runs oem deltas. Everyone who has ever installed one has immediately complained of higher than normal deltas.

Sinister, not just a name, it's a business model too.
 

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Well unfortunately I live in California so I can not get rid of the egr system, being that I have to get it smogged soon. The tune that I had on it for about a half day, wasn’t doing anything but make the truck run better. It’s weird how right after I restored the truck to the stock tune, the egr started working again. It hasn’t thrown the egr flow code at all since I restored the truck to stock settings. That alone makes me scratch my head a little. The egr valve that’s in the truck now is only a few months old, so it shouldn’t be too bad. Once I’m done doing the motor work, I’m going to take it up to Oregon to visit some family. While I’m there I’m going to have it dyno tuned with the egr turned off. This weekend I’m pulling the intake manifold and putting in a new oil cooler, and HPOP fittings and o-rings. While I have it apart the intake manifold and egr cooler are getting hot tanked so they will be nice and clean when they go back in. The egr cooler is a sinister also.


Ok, so now that I understand what you're wanting to know about the EGR, your best bet is to delete the EGR cooler and get a tune which turns off the code light for it. The EGR cooler basically contributes to the depositing of soot all over your intake, which mucks up your IAT. But, if you have to keep the cooler and the EGR intact, your best bet is to really clean the valve well and install it with new o-rings. After that, you should be good for a year or two before it will need cleaning again...based on most experiences I have read about.



And it sounds like that tune you have may have been messing with things a bit. Might want to consider a different tune?





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Good ole CA smog. I know there are guys on here who weld shut their EGR cooler and still pass emissions, but I don't know enough to say how difficult it would be to pass emissions like that...so keep your EGR cooler intact for sure. lol The big thing is keeping that oil cooler flowing. As long as it's flowing coolant normally, and you have a full cooling system, your EGR cooler should be fine. The problem only comes around when it's starved for coolant and gets a trickle which flash boils and essentially explodes the EGR cooler. Key to keeping that oil cooler clean is EC-1 coolant and a coolant filter system.

Just a thought, but while you're in the engine that far for the HPOP, you might want to think about what else can be done that you can afford. Updated turbo oil supply and drain lines? New J-tube off the HPOP? Etc? Just saying that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Keep us posted!
 

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Yes I’m definitely keeping the egr system intact and functional. The HPOP has had all the updated parts installed already, and the turbo oil drain tube is already updated. The only things that haven’t been done yet are the stand pipes, dummy plugs, nipple cups, and head studs. I definitely want to get the HHC nipple cups. The oem oil cooler is only temporary. I will be getting a BPD heavy duty air to oil cooler in the somewhat near future. It gets well into the 100 and teens here in the Sacramento area, so I want to make absolute sure I will never have oil cooler issues ever again. But I want to get the last remaining weak points of the motor squared away first. I do have a coolant filter system on it already also, and Im now running fleetguard elc. No more motorcraft gold for this truck. I run archoil on both sides of the injectors, which has kept them in good shape. This motor will be 100% updated when I’m done with it. I do plan on putting in new head gaskets with studs fairly soon. I definitely do not want to have to clean up a cooling system turned into a nasty milk shake. What else is there to do preventative maintenance wise to a 6.0 that I haven’t listed here?

Good ole CA smog. I know there are guys on here who weld shut their EGR cooler and still pass emissions, but I don't know enough to say how difficult it would be to pass emissions like that...so keep your EGR cooler intact for sure. lol The big thing is keeping that oil cooler flowing. As long as it's flowing coolant normally, and you have a full cooling system, your EGR cooler should be fine. The problem only comes around when it's starved for coolant and gets a trickle which flash boils and essentially explodes the EGR cooler. Key to keeping that oil cooler clean is EC-1 coolant and a coolant filter system.



Just a thought, but while you're in the engine that far for the HPOP, you might want to think about what else can be done that you can afford. Updated turbo oil supply and drain lines? New J-tube off the HPOP? Etc? Just saying that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.



Keep us posted!





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Delta problem solved. After finishing the motorcraft oil cooler install over the weekend, I took it for a drive. At 70mph for about 25 minutes, the oil didn’t exceed 193 degrees. 3 degrees above the coolant temp is very good with me. I also had the intake manifold cleaned out, because it was pretty dirty. I’m going to buy a metal cutting blade for my chop saw so I can cut the sinister oil cooler in half. Once I get it cut open I’ll post a picture of it. Also my egr cooler is now confirmed to be a sinister also. When I bought the truck I was told it had sinister oil cooler and sinister egr cooler, but being that I bought it from a dealer, I was never 100% positive that the truck actually did have sinister coolers in it. Now I know, and now that I have first hand experience with sinister oil coolers, I will never put one in a 6.0! They are garbage!


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Install an IPR full flow coolant filter with their coolant manifold and that new OEM oil cooler will last for many years. It also gives you the ability to do a back flush of the oil cooler in just minutes.




Back flush gizmo (kinda needs a check valve so the shop air doesn't back up into the garden hose)

 
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