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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
What was number 4 compared to the rest? Did you try performing crankshaft relearn?

Does the truck feel like it has a subtle misfire, or not subtle ?

You may have to do a leak down test on that cylinder.
Limited knowledge here. I need to post a picture of the graph. 4 makes a sharp v downward from the rest of the cylinders. I did not do a crankshaft relearn. I'll see if my scanner can do it. At idle the cab vibrates. I've never had a truck this size so compared to my 1500 it shakes. If that's normal I don't know. I need to cycle the key a few times to see if it will throw a code but I believe #4 is still throwing a misfire code.
I have never done a leak down test. I'll see if I have the equipment and give it a shot.
Related or unrelated, it still takes a long time to start when sitting for a while.
 

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You need to drive the piss out of it on the highway to bleed the fuel system fully. I suppose it’s possible aeration could be your problem but very unlikely, especially since you have the same problem on the same cylinder before and after an entire fuel system.

If it just “vibrates” abut it could be from tired engine mounts, which is is common. If you were to bring it off idle then the vibration nearly ceases (if motor mounts are the issue). If the “shake” increases frequency with increased RPM, then it’s likely skipping. These engines usually are smooth as glass. Does the engine shake while looking at it under the hood or is it still?

Is the exhaust pulse smooth? Is there any popping or rhythmic thump type noise from air intake?
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
You need to drive the piss out of it on the highway to bleed the fuel system fully. I suppose it’s possible aeration could be your problem but very unlikely, especially since you have the same problem on the same cylinder before and after an entire fuel system.

If it just “vibrates” abut it could be from tired engine mounts, which is is common. If you were to bring it off idle then the vibration nearly ceases (if motor mounts are the issue). If the “shake” increases frequency with increased RPM, then it’s likely skipping. These engines usually are smooth as glass. Does the engine shake while looking at it under the hood or is it still?

Is the exhaust pulse smooth? Is there any popping or rhythmic thump type noise from air intake?
I had google a lot of the things you're throwing out. I didn't know about such things so thank you for expanding my knowledge. My scanner can't do a crankshaft relearn. I don't have the equipment to do a reliable leak down test. I figure I could rig something up to force air down the cylinder and listen for where it might come out. Thank you Eric the Car guy. I haven't done that yet.
I was playing with it this morning and in my balance test, I can kill certain cylinders and watch the graph react. Kill any cylinder and you can see the graph go down on that cylinder. Kill #4 and nothing changes. I don't know if this image will post but that graph looks the same whether you kill #4 or not.
 

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Yeah you definitely have a mechanical issue. Where did you say you were located? More than likely valve train unless it some how slightly bent a connecting rod from hydrolocking/over fueling. Is there excessive blow by? Pull the oil fill cap while running. Also, what about my questions to the intake/exhaust pulses?
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
South Texas. Googling exhaust pulse leads me to believe I need a specific tool unless you can tell me a low tech way to do that. I am assuming if I pull the oil cap while running, I will feel the puff of air coming from #4 out the oil cap if I have excessive blow by? I also assume I could figure that out by putting air in the cylinder without the engine running?
This just raises questions. To help me fill my knowledge gap, if I had that kind of air leak via by valve or oil rings, how did I manage to find nothing significant in the compression test? I would have thought that anyone one of those issues would not allow me to build pressure in that cylinder.
 

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It could be a dynamic issue , as in a running compression issue (static compression is engine just cranking).
For example, you could have only 1 of the 2 exhaust or intake valves opening and have OK cranking compression but the air flow through the cylinder isn’t sufficient. Your best bet is to do a leak down test, or a running compression test with the fuel injector unplugged on that cylinder. If nothing is concrete, I’d remove the injector on the 3 and 4, get a small piece of tubing to stick down the injector bore into the cylinder with each 3 and 4 at TDC and measure how far the piston comes up. If 4 comes up lower than 3 then you have a bent connecting rod.
Exhaust pulse meaning stick your hand by the exhaust pipe and see if the air flow coming out is smooth, or choppy.

what were your exact compression numbers for each cylinder?
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
I'll give that a shot. Neat trick measuring the distance. These are great ideas for trying to figure out what going on without removing head covers and all that that entails.
I did the compression test cold because it took me after work a few days to remove the wheels and wells and then pull the glow plugs and get the adapter. I got around 300 - 350. #4 got to 300 it just seemed a little bit weaker getting there from my POV.
On these glow plugs, what do you use to remove them? I have an 8mm long neck socket that unscrews them, then I have a some difficulty fishing them out. I attached a magnet to the socket and that kind of helped hold on to it long enough to get it close to the hole so I could grab it in some other fashion. How do you remove them?
 

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300 psi is no good. Find out where the loss of pressure is. If it’s through the valves then it’s easier to repair than if by the piston/rings. How strong was the first puff on number 4? A strong first puff is piston ring condition indicator most times. If you have a strong first puff usually it means rings are OK. If it’s weak, then it’s not looking good for lo

I use a 8mm socket, sometimes the socket holds the glow plugs some times it doesn’t. I use a small magnet to fish them out if needed.

keep in mind once you loosen injector lines and remove the injector the line is not reusable, they are one time use crush to fit. The seals (copper washer) is not reusable either
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
300 psi is no good. Find out where the loss of pressure is. If it’s through the valves then it’s easier to repair than if by the piston/rings. How strong was the first puff on number 4? A strong first puff is piston ring condition indicator most times. If you have a strong first puff usually it means rings are OK. If it’s weak, then it’s not looking good for lo

I use a 8mm socket, sometimes the socket holds the glow plugs some times it doesn’t. I use a small magnet to fish them out if needed.

keep in mind once you loosen injector lines and remove the injector the line is not reusable, they are one time use crush to fit. The seals (copper washer) is not reusable either
I removed the glow plugs from 3 and 4 and using a 10 gage piece of copper wire, I measure the TDC from 3 and compared it to 4. They were identical. While I had 4 at TDC, I I took the schrader valve out of the adapter hose and rigged up a system to push air into the cylinder using the regulator from a paint gun. I had to put the regulator at about 1 to 2 PSI and the cylinder held pressure to about 10 PSI and I could just barely here it blow by with the oil cap off. I thought that was a good sign, but I don't know. I put the schrader valve back in and did a running compression test on #4 as you suggested. With the engine running, #4 only got to 300 PSI. I went to the exhaust and felt the air, it was still cold but was a steady stream from both pipes. I could not feel any pulse of air. I hooked 4 back up and did a running compression of #3 just to see the difference. #3 went to 450 PSI. I know the each cylinder has 2 exhaust and 2 intake. Do you believe it's a valve issue? I should have down my air pressure test on #3 to see if they were the same.
 

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It’s good they measure the same, that means you don’t have bent connecting rods.

You need to put at 75-100 psi for leakdown test. Listen by the exhaust tail pipe, intake tube, and oil fill cap for noise. Where it’s loudest is your issue.

If you can hear air out the oil fill cap with 10 psi then you have a piston/ring issue.

I should have noted that you need to remove the schrader valve out of the hose for a running test.
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
It’s good they measure the same, that means you don’t have bent connecting rods.

You need to put at 75-100 psi for leakdown test. Listen by the exhaust tail pipe, intake tube, and oil fill cap for noise. Where it’s loudest is your issue.

If you can hear air out the oil fill cap with 10 psi then you have a piston/ring issue.

I should have noted that you need to remove the schrader valve out of the hose for a running test.
OK. When I put it to 10 I couldn't get the air hose hooked up. Let me get it on there then crank the regulator to get to 75-100. Yes that would work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
It’s good they measure the same, that means you don’t have bent connecting rods.

You need to put at 75-100 psi for leakdown test. Listen by the exhaust tail pipe, intake tube, and oil fill cap for noise. Where it’s loudest is your issue.

If you can hear air out the oil fill cap with 10 psi then you have a piston/ring issue.

I should have noted that you need to remove the schrader valve out of the hose for a running test.
I bought a draw down gage. I pressurized #4 to 100 PSI. It did something weird in that I heard a click when it got to 60-70 PSI and then dropped down to 20 or so. It started to build back up and then click it did it again. It did that 3 times then finally went to about 70-80. I could hear the air in the intake but I could also hear it in the oil cap. Put the oil cap on and it got stronger in the intake. I heard absolutely nothing in the exhaust. I hooked it up to #3. I didn't get any 3 clicks, but #3 would only go to 60 PSI and I could hear it out of the intake as well as the oil cap like #4. Thinking maybe I didn't have it at TDC, I tried to turn the crank a little and I could not with cylinder pressurized. Removed the air moved it over a bit, same thing. Tried again same thing. Gave up and put everything back together. As a funny, I had to take a bathroom break before I put the air filter cover back on and left the wrench hooked up the fan bolt. I went to start it and I'll I heard was a loud clank. I thought crap that its she froze. I know I just turned that thing manually. Where's that wrench? DOH!. She cranked over fine and still had the imbalance in #4.
Do you have any clue what those 3 click were?
I was hoping for some easy solution, but it looks like I am just going to have to do the work and remove the heads and see what's going on. I really don't want to take this engine apart, but I don't see a way out of it.
 

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If you have air out the oil fill cap you’re going to have to rebuild the engine. Just because you put the oil fill cap on doesn’t mean it stopped leaking past the rings

Are you sure the intake valve wasn’t open? I can’t tell you what the noise was without hearing it first hand.

and you’re right. There is no way out of this without taking that engine apart.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
If you have air out the oil fill cap you’re going to have to rebuild the engine. Just because you put the oil fill cap on doesn’t mean it stopped leaking past the rings

Are you sure the intake valve wasn’t open? I can’t tell you what the noise was without hearing it first hand.

and you’re right. There is no way out of this without taking that engine apart.
I really don't know. I don't have enough experience to say what the issue is based on what I heard or did. If I take it apart and see something broke, then that's an easy. #3 had 450 PSI running and made the same noise out the oil cap #4 did. I know there is at least some blow by simply because oil rings aren't consecutive circles. There's a gap that air can snake by. But how much is too much, I just don't know. I would ask if you knew a good diesel mechanic I could take it to. Maybe before I take it apart, I should run it by someone more knowledgeable but who can I trust?.
A new engine with a 2 year warranty is $10K and probably requires something to lift the cab. I don't have that and I really don't have the space to be swapping engines. If I get the heads rebuilt and just do an overhaul on the engine, I won't have a warranty, probably save $8k or more, but I think that still requires space I don't have. I need the read the manual a little more because I thought I read some "cab on" procedures. I'll see if that's a option.
 

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You can do an engine swap without pulling the cab. You just have to loose. Some body bolts and jack it up a little depending on what I have assembled. I have put them on with fuel injectors/lines and valve covers/intakes on but no turbo. You’re right, SOME air leakage is normal but only VERY little. If you hear air RUSHING out, then that is a problem. But you need to make sure you’re on TDC compression stroke for the test. Slowly add air until you have something definitive. With a 30%+ loss of compression it should be obvious what the problem is.

I don’t have any contacts in south Texas. I do know someone in DFW but that is a hike.

last time I checked long blocks were on back order, but I usually overhaul them myself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
I started pulling it apart to get the head off and see if I could see anything. I need to wait for some jiffytite tools to get the turbo out. I couldn't get those clips with little picks like I've seen video of. I can't slip heat shield for the exhaust past the turbo without bending the crap out of it. I got the clamps off. Everyone complains about those and I can see why. I had to fashion some tools myself and I took one guys suggestion on using a air hammer to get the left side exhaust clamp off. I took the valve cover off on the right. I didn't see anything that seemed wrong. There was some small side deflection in one of the intake rocker arms but didn't seem any greater than the other cylinders.
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Every time I look at this engine all I see is tubes, wires, and parts. I can't help but say to myself, "I sure hope I can get this back together again."

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You won’t be able to see anything from that side. Did you get any conclusive results from the rest of your testing? A small lady slipper works well for those clamps, and a hammer/prybar on the lips of the clamps. They’re one time use anyway.

just keep your work area clean, and keep track of what goes where
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
You won’t be able to see anything from that side. Did you get any conclusive results from the rest of your testing? A small lady slipper works well for those clamps, and a hammer/prybar on the lips of the clamps. They’re one time use anyway.

just keep your work area clean, and keep track of what goes where
I did not get any conclusive result. I was reserved to the fact that something mechanical is wrong. If I have to change the engine then taking it apart won't cost anything but time and maybe I can fix it cheaper.
I got the turbo out and found my lost bolts from fuel change out. One was behind the heat shield for the exhaust manifold and the other had fallen behind the turbo. There are two small areas in the back of the engine well on each side. Mine were full of a nasty concoction of water, oil, and dirt. The bolt fell into right side well.
I was looking at the torque spec for the cylinder head bolt because I had a time getting them off. My 1/2'' breaker was deflecting so I broke out the 3/4" ratchet I stole from my grandfather. I didn't have 15mm 3/4' socket so after breaking 2 1/2" sockets, I went to Northern. I couldn't find a 3/4" 15mm. Smallest they had was 17mm so I got a 1/2" impact socket, together with an impact adapter and a cheater bar, I broke the torque. I was afraid to use an impact wrench but after looking up the torque specs the bolts are 1 time use so use a impact next time. The service manual states they only go to 36 ft/lbs but then you have twist them another 270 degrees on this 8 stage torque procedure. That really tightens these things down.
I got the head off and I don't see anything wrong with the valves. What I do see is the top is slightly cleaner on #4 than any of the others. Like it's had an occasional steam cleaning. Also the top of #4 cylinder is more rusty than the other cylinders. I am wondering if I had a small head gasket leak? I am just not experienced enough. When you see these picture what do you think is wrong? The gasket looked ok. I couldn't see any obvious signs of water leakage.
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It’s possible, but I would think actual water would do that for sitting, rather than coolant. It looks like it was sitting with water iit for a while.

it also looks like it has the wrong antifreeze in it.

I see no obvious breaks in the gasket on the block side. I’d need to see the head in person, it looks like there may be a spot or 2, but I’d also like to see the gasket on the head side.

I strongly suggest using ARP studs.

Pull that engine out. That cylinder is going to have to be bored. Between the rust and hazy cylinder wall, It’s done.
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
It’s possible, but I would think actual water would do that for sitting, rather than coolant. It looks like it was sitting with water iit for a while.

it also looks like it has the wrong antifreeze in it.

I see no obvious breaks in the gasket on the block side. I’d need to see the head in person, it looks like there may be a spot or 2, but I’d also like to see the gasket on the head side.

I strongly suggest using ARP studs.

Pull that engine out. That cylinder is going to have to be bored. Between the rust and hazy cylinder wall, It’s done.
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