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· Lost refugee from TDS
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In another thread regarding CCV mods, a member (Howie) brought up some concerned about upcoming new diesel engine smog testing and inspections.

The tests and inspections would be mandated by the State of California, on a biennial basis, retroactive to earlier model diesels (even those without DPFs when mfr'd).

The proposed testing and inspection specfically identifies light duty pickups owned by private individuals, not just agencies and fleets, not just medium duty trucks that are commercially used.

Vehicle registration renewals, as well as vehicle title transfers, would first require passing the BAR developed test and inspection, similar to what gasoline fueled vehicles are already subject to.

Under current law, diesel powered pickups under 14,000 gvwr have been exempt.

Under the new proposed law, Assembly Bill 1488, authored by State Assemblyman Tom Mendoza of California, this is about to change.

The bill has already passed in the Assembly after 3 rounds of revisions, and is currently (as of last Thursday, September 6, 2007) under committee hearing in the State Senate.

There are several more steps prior to this bill being codified into law, since it has yet to be voted on before the Senate. Therefore, now would be the time to offer whatever input or insight you might have to the Senator of your District.

It is improbable that your elected representative would have much sympathy for your desire to run a hot chip.

However, to the extent that passing or failing a future emissions test would present an unpredictable and sudden economic hardship on a contractor who requires his or her truck to make a living, cannot afford a new truck, and as a non-expert could not predict how the stock vehicle in stock trim would perform under testing that had not yet even been devised at the time the vehicle was engineered, manufactured, purchased, and placed into service... you may then have a case worth hearing.

What is currently proposed is a "study" test period for two years, from 2009 through 2011, with the goal of full implementation of the testing and inspection program in force by 2012.

Here are some links to give you some background information on AB1488 and it's progress this year through the California legislative system:

http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/asm/ab_1451-1500/ab_1488_cfa_20070709_102524_sen_comm.html

http://lgdb.com/bill/show/7744-California_2007_Air_Pollution__Smog_Check_Program_

http://www.legisweb.net/calm/model/Retrieve.asp?ref=urn:calm:2007:ab1488:doc


If you do have any input, the time to say it is now, to your State Senator, because it won't do any good to say it to the clerk at the counter of the DMV two years from now.

I'd have posted this information in the other thread, where this topic was first raised, but since the other thread was really about CCV mods, I didn't want to clutter that topic.

I personally am delighted that diesel emissions are being cleaned up. I always hated to be stuck driving behind diesel city buses spewing out black smoke... and to top it off only one or two passengers would be inside. A van or an airporter type vehicle would cost less to acquire, less to maintain, and less to fuel up for lightly travelled bus routes. Well, thankfully some cities are finally doing that, and it's great.

But not everyone lives in the city. And not everyone can afford a new truck every five years. And not everyone can stand to have big brother poking around under their hoods, in their cabs, and in their livelihoods.

While we all share the same air, city or country, and we all have to cooperate together to protect that air, we must also look realistically on exactly who is polluting that air most, and what is being done about that.

When big business can literally buy "pollution credits" as perfectly acceptable "mitigation factors" so that they can continue to pollute as before, that doesn't make our air any cleaner. That only makes state budgets swell larger. And those swelled budgets pay salaries to cubicle bound bureacrats that often lack a sense of balance that some broader life experience might have otherwise afforded them.

And it is balance that must be considered here, when creating regulations such as what AB1488 proposes. Perhaps, with the study period and phase in, that balance has been adequately acheived. What do you think about it?

Read up on it, using the handy and comprehensive links I provided above, and after reading, post up what you think (and what you'll do, if anything).
 

· Lost refugee from TDS
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Incidently, later revisions of the bill may have altered the initial BAR study period and phase in, changed the full implementation date to January 1, 2010, made isolations of particular GVWR classes, including requiring inspections of vehicles below 8,501 GVWR, exempting vehicles between 8,501 and 13,999 GVWR (temporarily), and picking up again with GVWRs 14,000 and above.

I'll need to review which version I've read before posting further... but anyway, this law is being created now, so it might be of interest.
 

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I can see them making emissions test required for older vehicles but honestly don't see them makeing the older vehicles meet the same standards as the newer ones. The technology just isn't there. Even if you put particulate filters on them the combustion chamber designs and intake and exhaust designs etc. just weren't designed with the emissions in mind of the current vehicles on the new car lots. It's rediculous for them to even consider that.

Is this just a California thing or is it a national thing? I realize if it starts somewhere it will most likely migrate everywhere but will take much longer.
 

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The nation usually follows California so what goes here eventually goes in other states or federal.

I would say that the most likely solution if we have to go to a sniffer is to get the tuners to put together a smog check tune. I will definitely be looking at an F5 now as having lived in Cali all my life I would bet nothing will stop this. Nothing but the junk science and emotions supplied by the California Eco nuts matter out here in Cali.
 

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After reading these its obvious what the pilot program is. They are going to be collecting data to support permanent smog checks, or mandated older diesel upgrades, or worse the banning of our trucks all together. I know those scenarios sound extreme and unlikely but remember this is California where we now have a politician asking for Fast Food restaurants bans in LA because certain neighborhoods have a high rate of obesity.

Arnold needs to get off his @$$ and get the alternative fueling station program moving. If I could get Bio-diesel regularly I would. I know if these smog check pilot program goes into effect I will be looking for that smog check program from Jody and a full tank of B100. Now if that will help is a different story.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
While retrofitting light duties has been discussed in California for the last decade, what is on the legsilative table today is just testing to determine if the vehicles acheive a pre-ordained standard in the as-originally-manufactured condition.

But there could be trouble for individual owners, because over time, a used, high mileage diesel engine may not be able to acheive the same standard it might have easily acheived when it rolled off the line. And since average unmodified diesel engines, and the trucks that they are installed in, can often be operated 100 to 200K more miles than the average gasoline powered automobile, the useful life of such vehicles might be terminated unexpectedly early for the farmer who bought the truck with the expectation of being able to operate it for 400K miles before replacement.

The gasoline smog program in California has forced many vehicles off the road. Over the last 25 years, I personally have lost the use and value of seven UNMODIFED, bone stock, otherwise perfectly running vehicles as a result of failing smog tests. These fully operable vehicles had to be junked/parted out.

I certainly can appreciate the cleaner air, despite the increase in population, that the smog program has brought to California, but I wonder if the overall environment is worse off, due to natural resources expended and the industrial pollution involved in making and delivering the new vehicles that had to be manufactured to replace my old ones, which I might otherwise still be operating.

One sometimes has to evaluate the motivation for laws, and the exceptions to the law, to see who the real benefiting parties are. Is it "we the people?" Or is it "we ll connected?"

AB1488 applies to the State of California only.

Recently, however, federal law followed California's lead with respect to diesel emissions. The ultra low sulpher fuel now mandated around the country is an example of the feds following CARBs direction in policy making. They even called it the "California 2007", back several years ago.

Getting back to AB1488, it looks like diesel pickups from 1997 forward will be affected.
 

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I have lived in Cali all my life and have fought the pre-78 car crush initiatives several times. I fully understand. I have also been here long enough to remember summers when the smog was so bad we spent most of the day inside, and even the nights. We lived about 2 miles from the hills and Glendora(east LA county) air quality was so bad we could not see them. Times have changed dramatically and an area that used to see serious smog alerts every day all summer long rarely sees them anymore. The air quality is SIGNIFICANTLY better than it was in the 70s and 80s.

With 237K on my truck and what I assume are the original injectors I am definatlely seeing the effects of miles. I suspect that the ULSD has accelerated the damage because last year I hardly smoked unless I wanted to, now even with the bigger turbo I smoke almost constantly.

IMHO Bio-diesel is the only viable solution at this time, that is if they can actually get it to us. This does exclude the new trucks tho. There is no good solution and I am really getting tired after so many years fighting stupid legislation that would have little to no effect.
 

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We already have emissions testing for diesels here in several Colorado counties, so this is nothing new.

It's just a basic opacity and snap test. The tolerances for most diesels are pretty loose, so even the old non-turbo diesels can pass as long as there's nothing majorly wrong with them. Any truck running right and without significant problems can pass. That's pretty much the same as any other emissions test anywhere in the country regardless of fuel type. Rules are stricter for the newer trucks with the DPF's, which is expected I guess. But old diesels are not required to meet the same specs as the newer ones.

As for chips or tuners, just program or flip to the lowest HP setting or stock setting. Almost every single chip or tuner has this feature. I've passed every time running in the 40hp tow setting, and with better opacity results than many stock trucks.

And the CCV mod.... here in Colorado we are supposed to have it routed as it came from the factory. However I've passed several times now with the CCV venting to open atmosphere, and no one has yet mentioned anything to me. Besides, if they do start cracking down on that, it's a simple mod to reverse.
 

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Our 7.3's can burn pretty clean with the right tuning. I have B codes, and I'm not worried about passing an emissions test. The only thing that bothers me, is the political crap of getting the truck smogged(more time, another tax, another bureaucracy and another bill).
Joey, you forgot a couple so I added them.

Howie
 

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we have it here to. in several middle Tn, counties. It really wasn't a problem for me, fairly stock at that point in time.


I figured i would prod jody to make me a tune for my upgraded injectors and fuel system. That would be so small of a bandwidth that the truck would almost not be able to idle durring the test,

IF this wouldnt work, i also have been pondering the idea of an air tank mounted under the bed to allow air to flow into the exhaust pipe more upstream. This sorta thing i have used before to get my rotor motor (notoriously noxious emissions) using a chevy impala air pump for just the few minutes to pump clean air into the exhaust.

also people need to pay alot of attention to the sema action network, they do alot of defending of modifications and that sorta thing. They are a really a good line of defense.

anything else, just remember the gov will do basically what they wanna do, so pray they dont get to hard core on this or we will be modifying electric motors before too long.

-Chris
 

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Originally Posted by TerminatorEngineering
Our 7.3's can burn pretty clean with the right tuning. I have B codes, and I'm not worried about passing an emissions test. The only thing that bothers me, is the political crap of getting the truck smogged(more time, another tax, another bureaucracy and another bill).

Joey, you forgot a couple so I added them.

Howie
Ditto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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I figured i would prod jody to make me a tune for my upgraded injectors and fuel system. That would be so small of a bandwidth that the truck would almost not be able to idle durring the test,
Excellent idea. Program 16 Smog test. RPM limited to 2400!
 

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I am sort of thinnking with a bunch of mods all you need is the stock or a tune set up for low emissions to get through. I was worried at first but have to think if my truck is running more effeciently then off the assembly line, just tune it way down. Makes sense to me. I don't want to plug that ccv back in, everything is clean in there now.
 

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Just take the hose off of the map sensor line and run your lowest setting. That'll neuder even the toughest injectors, lol.

You can't MAKE my truck smoke with the map sensor unhooked in my tow program, it's just a physical impossibility.

Now as far as NOX and what-not, that would worry me.
 

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I say time to move CA is a crap hole any way:lame:
Yeah SoCal is such a horrible place to live, sunny all year round, beaches, mountains, deserts, rivers, lakes, good food, good entertainment, ....... The only thing I can give people about Cali being bad is the traffic, but I have a 50 mile one way commute on a major freeway in San Diego and I can still get to work in less than an hour. BTW 10 of the miles are on side streets. The only reason I would leave Cali is if I had to.


Most people who say Cali sucks have never been here or at the least have only seen LA.
 

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Thinking about this last night made me wonder more about Bio. I know I have seen studies that show even B20 reduces the emissions of a light duty diesel truck. Luckily for us 7.3L guys our mill loves the bio and even the SVO. So does anyone have a source of a real study that shows the amounts that running bio or SVO reduce emissions over straight diesel? I have been wanting to go to SVO or homemade bio for a while with the uncertaintity of ULSD quality and the cost of pump diesel. This could be the thing that pushes me to actually do something.

Need to look into a big fuel tank for the bed.
 

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The only thing I can give people about Cali being bad is the traffic, but I have a 50 mile one way commute on a major freeway in San Diego and I can still get to work in less than an hour. BTW 10 of the miles are on side streets. The only reason I would leave Cali is if I had to.
/QUOTE]Makes me glad I can drive to work on a little two lane road at 30 mph and be there in less than 10 minutes. What sold me on this job was somebody complaining about rush hour with 4 cars sitting at a light. LOL. That was compared with living more than an hour away and commuting in on a freeway. Hmm. Whatever would you do with those extra 10 hours a week?
 
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