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Discussion Starter #1
I built a TP38, I used a KC S300 style turbine, a 1.0 A/R exhaust housing, 360 thrust bearing, ebpv delete tube, and a 66/88 billet antisurge wheel with an antisurge housing. I also ceramic coated the exhaust side from bellowed up pipes to ebpv and exhaust wrapped the up pipes and down pipe. Well, it makes about 16 psi WOT at about 2600-2800RPM empty on about a 4-5% grade in the 100hp position on a ts6. That is about what the old one made (which was mildly disappointing to see). It also starts making about 1-2 psi at about 1400 rpm, which is nice and the old turbo certainly didn't do that. I'm fairly sure it's on stock injectors, also likely the tunes are canned (tuner was in the truck when I bought it). Is the tuning keeping me from developing more boost? What is the fueling strategy for these trucks? Does it target a specific MAP at a certain RPM with a given throttle position and pull/add fuel to keep it at that desired MAP? Could my puny 90cc injectors do more, or will I not really see the boost numbers I am looking for until I get bigger injectors? (Trying to decide between 180/30 or 200/30). I am trying to hit about 28 PSi once I'm intercooled, so I'm guessing about 32-37 with the stock intake y-pipe. Thanks for reading this and for any input!
 

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Project Shamu
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Stock injectors are your limiting factor. You might be able to squeeze a psi or two out with tuning, but that'll be it.
 

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I’d check for leaks at exhaust manifold to head interface look close from underneath at rear of block especially on drivers side. Not uncommon to have exhaust manifold bolt heads pop off causing leak. 16 psi sounds low to me, specially with a 1.0, thinking should be 21-22 psi.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Well, no bolt heads popped off. But, the truck did come from the PNW and there is that opening in the driver's side wheel well. I'll look for soot and see if I can find any. I think I need to give the underside of the engine bay some attention with a scotch bright pad and simple green though. It's kind of hard to tell what's soot and what's 140k miles of road grime. Eventually I want to get the tubular headers for the truck. I've read they increase economy (that won't pay itself off for a long time, but it helps me justify it HAH). Also want to do the gear vendors when I can afford it, in theory that pays for itself in 80k-120k miles which this truck will probably easily see. I digress, 16psi seemed low to me too. I'm concerned that injectors won't get me to 30 PSI
 

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Project Shamu
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I have 130cc injectors and I maxxed out at 38psi with a brand new turbo. 30psi is not unattainable, just takes some money.

I will be stepping up to a 238cc or 250cc in the future though.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Lt. Dan, do you have an intercooler with those boost numbers or is that with the stock Y-pipe? Going to do an intercooler after I do E-fuel. I'm looking at the csf 6028 or 6013. Leaning towards the 6028 for the bar and plate construction instead of tube and fin.

Was it a mistake to go for the 6+6 anti-surge 66/88 wheel?
 

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Go with stage 1's and Inter-cool it and you be a mighty happy feller then I reckon. :D The TS-6 will do fine mine did with about the same setup at that time. Just my 2 cents.
 

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Lt. Dan, do you have an intercooler with those boost numbers or is that with the stock Y-pipe? Going to do an intercooler after I do E-fuel. I'm looking at the csf 6028 or 6013. Leaning towards the 6028 for the bar and plate construction instead of tube and fin.

Was it a mistake to go for the 6+6 anti-surge 66/88 wheel?
I had the stock y-pipe at the time when I made 38psi, but my turbo is severely worn out right now, and after intercooler, I struggle to make 25psi now. So I have a DieselSite Wicked Turbo on the way.

When I intercooled it, I noticed a 3-4psi drop in boost, which was a little disappointing, but, I was able to push the truck harder, for longer periods of time because of my drop in EGT's, thus I was able to make more power, even with less boost.

The stock turbo is only "good" for 25-30psi, anything after that and its a crap shoot on when it will die. Could be immediately, could be years. Mine lasted almost 3 years and 30,000 miles and its pretty much toast, but over that 3 years I noticed my boost levels dropping slowly over time.

As far as intercooler, I would recommend trying to find a stock aluminum tank 7.3 intercooler, they can be had for $100-150, and they work great. That or a 6.0 intercooler. They are both great.

The 6+6 anti surge wheel wasn't a bad idea, it'll serve you well for a while.
 

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Well, no bolt heads popped off. But, the truck did come from the PNW and there is that opening in the driver's side wheel well. I'll look for soot and see if I can find any. I think I need to give the underside of the engine bay some attention with a scotch bright pad and simple green though. It's kind of hard to tell what's soot and what's 140k miles of road grime. Eventually I want to get the tubular headers for the truck. I've read they increase economy (that won't pay itself off for a long time, but it helps me justify it HAH). Also want to do the gear vendors when I can afford it, in theory that pays for itself in 80k-120k miles which this truck will probably easily see. I digress, 16psi seemed low to me too. I'm concerned that injectors won't get me to 30 PSI
Great no bolt heads are off, with a strong flashlight get under the truck and look up at the interface between E manifold and each head, as you may know there are no exhaust to head gaskets from the factory. Any signs of soot would indicate a leak.

I don’t understand what you mean by hole in drivers side wheel well? On my trucks there is an opening designed into the inner fender skirt on both sides of the truck opposite the exhaust manifolds, thinking that might be to let Engine heat out? Often thought of closing that opening in to keep out mud etc, but it’s down the priority list.

Tube headers, Gear Venders would be veddy niiice, clearly you have the OBSession... :grin:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Lt. Dan, thanks for the info. So this is not a perfect way of determining what boost numbers I should see, but I think it's a decent rule of thumb, (90cc/130cc)×38PSI≈26PSI. So if I had built a new stock turbo I should be seeing about 10PSI more than I am now. I'm having a bit of a hard time believing the upgraded compressor and turbine are generating 10PSI less than the stock turbo. I built a boost leak tester, and it should also test for exhaust leaks since I bought a cap for the down pipe. Time to spray some soapy water.

I'm probably still going to go for the CSF 6028. It will probably give me more pressure drop, but it will give me all the cooling capacity I will ever need. The real dream would be water to air intercooler since it gives you the best of both worlds, but I'm not going to bother setting that up. I'd probably just swap a 6.7 at that point.

JCart, the whole in the wheel well let's water hit the headers. Hot cast iron + a nice splash of cold water going down the road makes for metal that doesn't want to be in the same shape as it was before. I am almost certain I have an exhaust leak at the header but I don't want to spend $100 in gaskets and bolts, and ~4 hours extracting seized bolts to find out nothing changed. I have a buddy who is an awesome fabricator. I'm going to 3D print him a set of exhaust jig Legos(essentially) and he's going to use it to make money, but in return he's going to make me some headers. $1500 for headers is just expensive. When he makes em, I'll see what he'd be willing to sell them for maybe folks will get some from him, that would be a win win haha.
 

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Cool cool.... to confirm your above math Iirc, stock turbo on my trucks would yield 21-22 psi max. Then with performance files (stock injectors ) max at 28 psi, Swamps Baby injectors (140cc/146 nozzles) and performance tunes 38 psi max. Will let you know I’m installing Full Force Diesel 205cc/30% injectors today (hopefully), then gotta get gauges.... running very similar turbo setup to what you have, along with Jelibuilt tunes.

Entertained retrofitting a 6.7 air to water set up on mine, however as I have a couple air to airs in my shop and on a parts truck, will be going that route here soon. Might add water injection for towing heavy up inclines if need be pending how much heat we make with the 205s. Good luck on the leak testing.

I’ve done the E manifolds and can be a bear for sure, especially the drivers side. Recommend spraying down bolts with a quality penetrating oil and heat cycle, meaning spray, drive, spray drive, several times/days in advance to tear down. Buy some stud extractor sockets. And remember that you can cut the bolts off with a small sawzall or even hacksaw blade in a single handle, just try to make the remaining “stud” as long as possible to put extractor socket on it. Typically (my experience), the bolts seize in the manifold, especially one of the bolts towards middle is a center-ing bolt for manifold install.
Cheers,
j
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for the tips! Yea I'll be spraying them with PB Blaster for a bout a week before I try and do anything. New bolts will be going in with a healthy dose of nickel anti-seize. Thinking I'm going to have to intercool sooner than expected. Creeping up on 1200° going up a local grade at 70 empty on the stock tune makes me concerned I will be hitting that real easily with any weight behind me will be problematic. Let me know how the 205/30s do. I'm torn between going with 180/30 or 200/30. Looking at doing the injector build myself, mechanically I'm sure I could do it. Not sure if I can find someone nearby to flow bench them though. Also not sure if it's worth using the original injectors with 145k miles on them.

Once I get the leaks fixed it will probably be E-fuel, intercooler, injectors, gear vendors, then suspension in that order. Then the truck should be done until I find a block to build, a motor to swap (unlikely), or break something. Might have to do clutch and or rebuild the trans (5th has an occasional touch of crunch when I upshift). Anyone ever cryo treat the synchros in the zf-5? I would like to be able to throw gears around in this thing more like a sports car than a big rig haha (I know, I know, it's a truck). At some point I'll have Midwest transmission do the short shifter mod for me.
 

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Try to keep the EGT's down Ayka! 1200 is too darn hot for these or any other diesel for that matter. And an intercooler is gonna help a boo-koo bunch. You will lose some boost but you gotta get the truck to run cooler. Personally I think stage 1's 180 or 200 at the most with your turbo is the best you could do. Unless you do another turbo upgrade too. I don't know what you want to spend that being a key question. If you get the fuel and air matched then you will see more boost the intercooler keeping temps down is key and I think you will be pleased. Jim Rosewood still sells kit I imagine. I bought parts off him in the past. They are simple to rebuild and he will help with consultation him a good guy.

Yeah here he is Power Stroke Fuel Injectors | Rosewood Diesel Shop of Chardon, OH

If you got the bucks to lay out of course ready made are probably the best choice. I just like doing things myself. Except I don't have an alignment machine or tire balancer dad gummit.
 

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Try to keep the EGT's down Ayka! 1200 is too darn hot for these or any other diesel for that matter. And an intercooler is gonna help a boo-koo bunch. You will lose some boost but you gotta get the truck to run cooler. Personally I think stage 1's 180 or 200 at the most with your turbo is the best you could do. Unless you do another turbo upgrade too. I don't know what you want to spend that being a key question. If you get the fuel and air matched then you will see more boost the intercooler keeping temps down is key and I think you will be pleased. Jim Rosewood still sells kit I imagine. I bought parts off him in the past. They are simple to rebuild and he will help with consultation him a good guy.

Yeah here he is Power Stroke Fuel Injectors | Rosewood Diesel Shop of Chardon, OH

If you got the bucks to lay out of course ready made are probably the best choice. I just like doing things myself. Except I don't have an alignment machine or tire balancer dad gummit.
Since when was 1200* way too hot? You can run at 1250* for hours and never have a problem.
 

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Thanks for the tips! Yea I'll be spraying them with PB Blaster for a bout a week before I try and do anything. New bolts will be going in with a healthy dose of nickel anti-seize. Thinking I'm going to have to intercool sooner than expected. Creeping up on 1200° going up a local grade at 70 empty on the stock tune makes me concerned I will be hitting that real easily with any weight behind me will be problematic. Let me know how the 205/30s do. I'm torn between going with 180/30 or 200/30. Looking at doing the injector build myself, mechanically I'm sure I could do it. Not sure if I can find someone nearby to flow bench them though. Also not sure if it's worth using the original injectors with 145k miles on them. once you get a handle on boost leak I’m thinking it’ll cool down some.

Once I get the leaks fixed it will probably be E-fuel, intercooler, injectors, gear vendors, then suspension in that order. Then the truck should be done until I find a block to build, a motor to swap (unlikely), or break something. Might have to do clutch and or rebuild the trans (5th has an occasional touch of crunch when I upshift). Anyone ever cryo treat the synchros in the zf-5? I would like to be able to throw gears around in this thing more like a sports car than a big rig haha (I know, I know, it's a truck). At some point I'll have Midwest transmission do the short shifter mod for me.
Looks like a solid plan to me. Not sure about the Cryo parts, the ZF 5 is a pretty robust tranny, guess it depends on how many ponies you plan to run through it. I always fill mine with Red Line MTF shifts nicer and synchros seem to like it. You can build your own short shifter kit. Still running mine, works awesome did a How To... years ago and should be in my sig link. Basically 1/2” aluminum spacer plate and ZF 6 shifter inside the tower and a few other bits.

Then the truck should be done..... hahahaaa clearly you’ve been bitten by the OBS bug, when I say that to my wife and others the usual response is Oh...OK, ya sure then mumble about a 6.7... hahaha.
j
 

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Since when was 1200* way too hot? You can run at 1250* for hours and never have a problem.
Lt. You have been deceived I guess you never opened up a melted down Cummins or Cat. 1200 will work sure to pull a hill but from my past experience don't hold it for hours that is a disaster waiting to happen. I did some trucking in the early 80's. We took a 350 fuel squeezer and turned it up to 500+ hp. It would outrun all the big fancy large cars through the mountains up and down loaded or unloaded. Used to really chap their but they hated us cause we just had a little Freightliner. We always kept the heat below 900 except to pull a hill and if it were a long hill or mountain you better be not seeing 1200 for more than very dad gum temporarily. Check your blow by after continual 1200 temps. You will ruin that engine, I always tried to keep below 1000 better yet 900. Just a matter of opinion and proof from my past experience.
Do what you want ,your truck...
 

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Ok Lt. You got me I guess this was a joke on the new guy... :D
 

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Lt. You have been deceived I guess you never opened up a melted down Cummins or Cat. 1200 will work sure to pull a hill but from my past experience don't hold it for hours that is a disaster waiting to happen. I did some trucking in the early 80's. We took a 350 fuel squeezer and turned it up to 500+ hp. It would outrun all the big fancy large cars through the mountains up and down loaded or unloaded. Used to really chap their but they hated us cause we just had a little Freightliner. We always kept the heat below 900 except to pull a hill and if it were a long hill or mountain you better be not seeing 1200 for more than very dad gum temporarily. Check your blow by after continual 1200 temps. You will ruin that engine, I always tried to keep below 1000 better yet 900. Just a matter of opinion and proof from my past experience.
Do what you want ,your truck...
Are you talking about post turbo temps? I'm talking pre turbo, right at the manifold, post turbo is too unreliable and not a good indication of what's going on INSIDE the motor. And hundreds, if not thousands of people push 1200*, day and night. I ride 1250-1300* every time I pull a hill, last motor went 350,000 and when we opened it up it looked great. 30,000 on my new one and still chugging strong.
 

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Are you talking about post turbo temps? I'm talking pre turbo, right at the manifold, post turbo is too unreliable and not a good indication of what's going on INSIDE the motor. And hundreds, if not thousands of people push 1200*, day and night. I ride 1250-1300* every time I pull a hill, last motor went 350,000 and when we opened it up it looked great. 30,000 on my new one and still chugging strong.
Lt., I meant to ask you where your probe was mounted, mine is mounted pre turbo. I mean who the heck would mount a pyro post turbo? Also I also neglected to mention the first driver that got in that old Freightliner after my partner and I got rid of it melted it down first trip. I just know what I have seen and wanted to share my experience. Not trying to argue here! Push your truck as hard as you want heck it's your truck! If you pull a hill at 1250 fine a hill pull don't hurt a thing at those temps. If you want to run it that hot all day that's fine too I guess if it keeps running! Glad to hear you have good luck with it. I personally don't recommend it for long periods is all that's just IMHO and what I am comfortable with you know? . Like I said I opened up a lot of heavy duty truck that were toasted and it is a horrifying sight! :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I tapped my pyrometer bung between cylinders 8 & 6 (I believe, the last two cylinders on the driver's side). I don't intend to regularly run it that hot, I was testing to figure out how necessary an intercooler is right now. Now if only I could get the boost numbers I was expecting. I had a leak at the compressor outlet, which I fixed by replacing the OE square profile O-ring with a round profile O-ring. If you want to make the switch PN: BR3Z8255A is a thermostat O-ring from a 09-11 227 or 302 and it fits like a glove. Not sure why they went with that profile for sealing the flat face with a tapered cone, but I think I'd replace it with this O-ring any day of the week. Unfortunately, it didn't help much. Just kept my boost gauge more stable mostly. I'll be going up the hill again soon, we'll see if I hit the 20 psi mark, but I'm not holding my breath. I still suspect the header is leaking somewhere but I can't seem to find it. I'll probably not mess with it until I can afford IDP's header. I talked to my fabricator buddy and we came to the conclusion that I might as well buy them from IDP. Going to cost me about $500-$700 to build anyway, and I'd probably need to get a block to prototype it on. Not that I don't want to have a spare block around, but I don't really have anywhere to store it, and then I'd end up pouring a bunch of money into building that block hahaha.

Anyway, has anyone gone from a billet 60/80 wheel to a 66/88? Did you boost stay the same, increase or decrease?
 
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