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I want to build a motor built for towing. I want numbers around 400hp and 800ft/lbs. It needs to be reliable and last a long time. In theory, I would like to build it from the inside out and have it be capable of 400 hp before I go after injectors and a tuner....not sure how possible that is, but the way I see it, I have 444 cubic inches to play with so it shouldn't be a problem. the plan I have so far is to purchase a quality rebuild kit with .030 pistons. A new set of forged rods. Find a bigger cam (suggestions would be helpful) open up the heads and install bigger valves and springs. If I can do a full roller set up for the valve train I would like to. (Again suggestions on the valvetrain will be helpful) Also planning on doing a main bearing stud kit and a head stud kit. The trans is a ZF 6 speed, not really planning on doing much with it other than a good clutch. I know fuel delivery is a big factor in this equation too. I have already done the "hutch mod" and put a new spring in the FPR housing along with a new fuel pump, that netted me 72psi of fuel pressure. In my opinion that's pretty good. should be able to run some slightly bigger injectors without an issue. I am planning on running a new HPOP, and doing the crossover kit to make sure all injectors are getting the fuel they need. For the turbo...not too sure yet. It is an early 99 and im not sure how much power that turbo is able to support. I know I could make 400 hp pretty easily with some big injectors, a mean tune and a water methanol system but that isn't the way I want to make it, I wanna do the old school way and build it from the inside out to do what I want it to. Now I could be 100% wrong in my plan here, and if I am, someone please tell me. but any info that could be passed this way on building this engine would be appreciated.
 

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the stryker god
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well you see, you need fuel to make power. if you don't upgrade the injectors for more volume or get a tune to call for more pulse width to inject more fuel you're never gonna make any more power. pis 175/30, modded h2e, or s366 and a healthy 17 degree hpop or a honey badger jr from nltd with some nltd tunes and call it a day. you're never gonna tow heavy at 400 horse anyway because its just so hard to keep cool.
 

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well I know you need fuel to make power, that is why I said im putting slightly bigger injectors in it, new HPOP, and a tuner. but you need air to burn that fuel otherwise your just wasting it and running your EGT"s thru the roof, that is the reason for all the head work, more air in the combustion chamber means more power. The reason for the roller setup in the valvetrain is less friction, less friction means more power. And a bigger cylinder bore gives me more room for that added fuel and air mixture which makes a bigger explosion and that means more power. If I just wanted to bolt stuff on an engine and go hotrod around town then your suggestions would be fine, but that isn't what I want to do. I already have to rebuild this motor due to the fact that it is tired so why not do it the right way. I do appreciate your suggestions on a HPOP and a turbo though. And I do belive 400hp is a towable power level, as long as you build the motor for it, as long as I have enough air in the combustion chamber to burn every last bit of fuel that I shove in to it, and precise timing on the injector pulse then EGT's shouldn't be an issue. So again...does anyone have a suggestion on a cam, valve size, valve springs ect
 

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I want to build a motor built for towing. I want numbers around 400hp and 800ft/lbs. It needs to be reliable and last a long time. In theory, I would like to build it from the inside out and have it be capable of 400 hp before I go after injectors and a tuner....not sure how possible that is, but the way I see it, I have 444 cubic inches to play with so it shouldn't be a problem. the plan I have so far is to purchase a quality rebuild kit with .030 pistons. A new set of forged rods. Find a bigger cam (suggestions would be helpful) open up the heads and install bigger valves and springs. If I can do a full roller set up for the valve train I would like to. (Again suggestions on the valvetrain will be helpful) Also planning on doing a main bearing stud kit and a head stud kit. The trans is a ZF 6 speed, not really planning on doing much with it other than a good clutch. I know fuel delivery is a big factor in this equation too. I have already done the "hutch mod" and put a new spring in the FPR housing along with a new fuel pump, that netted me 72psi of fuel pressure. In my opinion that's pretty good. should be able to run some slightly bigger injectors without an issue. I am planning on running a new HPOP, and doing the crossover kit to make sure all injectors are getting the fuel they need. For the turbo...not too sure yet. It is an early 99 and im not sure how much power that turbo is able to support. I know I could make 400 hp pretty easily with some big injectors, a mean tune and a water methanol system but that isn't the way I want to make it, I wanna do the old school way and build it from the inside out to do what I want it to. Now I could be 100% wrong in my plan here, and if I am, someone please tell me. but any info that could be passed this way on building this engine would be appreciated.
With all the mods in my sig i'm getting 400-450 RWHP out of my 7.3
 

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the stryker god
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Just call swamps or go over to psa. More people are serious about performance over there. Seems like a lot of money for not a lot of gain to me though.
 

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the stryker god
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You're prolly an old gasser guy. Ported heads and cams do help, I'm not sayin that, but they're not as beneficial as they are in a N/A engine because we have turbos to force air in the cylinders and 10, 20, 30+ psi so we can generally get enough air in to clean up the fuel. They guys who benefit from the cams and heads are the guys runnin huge injectors at a competition level. I've only seen one set of roller rockers and those we on an hrt built pullin engine. I'll say it again, performance injection systems 175/30 injectors, modded h2e, or 66mm equivalent turbo, honey badger jr would make a dang fine towin combo. More than a zf wants anyway
 

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well I know you need fuel to make power, that is why I said im putting slightly bigger injectors in it, new HPOP, and a tuner. but you need air to burn that fuel otherwise your just wasting it and running your EGT"s thru the roof, that is the reason for all the head work, more air in the combustion chamber means more power. The reason for the roller setup in the valvetrain is less friction, less friction means more power. And a bigger cylinder bore gives me more room for that added fuel and air mixture which makes a bigger explosion and that means more power. If I just wanted to bolt stuff on an engine and go hotrod around town then your suggestions would be fine, but that isn't what I want to do. I already have to rebuild this motor due to the fact that it is tired so why not do it the right way. I do appreciate your suggestions on a HPOP and a turbo though. And I do belive 400hp is a towable power level, as long as you build the motor for it, as long as I have enough air in the combustion chamber to burn every last bit of fuel that I shove in to it, and precise timing on the injector pulse then EGT's shouldn't be an issue. So again...does anyone have a suggestion on a cam, valve size, valve springs ect

If you want

450-500 RWHP

Fuel Injectors

160/100% injectors would get you to 450 RWHP but that is pushing the 160/100% injector get a set of hybrids would be good because you will have room to grow. like me I wish I went with hybrids but don't really plan to go over 450 may be later swamps can convert my injectors to hybrids.

Turbo

GTP38R W WW2 or modded H2E.

HPOP

T-500 or Adrenalin or SRP1.1 and also there many more out there.

Fuel System

Airdog Twin SD pumps with pre and post filters again there are many other fuel system out there.

Tuning

Get A PHP Hydra so you can run most of the tuning companies out there also another plus is you don't need to wait for the chip to get rebunt get the tunes emailed and download to the chip.


Transmission

For your ZF you going to need a performance clutch

South Bend make some really good clutches. Clutch rated up to 650 would be good.

I'm guessing you going to have the basic needs

Gauges

CAI

Exhaust
 

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Discussion Starter #9
thanks! i'll go post a thread over at PSA, and if I have to rebuild the entire motor either way then why not spend a little extra and have what I want. the cost of a rebuild kit with stock pistons or .030 pistons is basically the same, with the heads I need to have new valves, springs and guides put in along with a little machine work to give me a fresh new surface, so whats a little more machine work to port and polish and make room for bigger valves. I need to replace the cam so why not spend a little more and get a better one......its not like I just decided I want more power so im gonna rebuild the engine...if I just wanted more power than yeah id go and just bolt sh*t on and call it good till it blew up but that isn't the case...this engine is tired, its worn out, its done its time, it needs a rebuild...so that's what is gonna happen
 

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Take it for what its worth, but if your only wanting 400hp, then your current plan is just throwing money down the drain. For 400hp all you need is a decent fuel system, decent HPOP, and some bigger injectors. A stock turbo will make 400+, but they don't like it. Mines lasted 6k miles with the current injectors, and i run the crap out of it, but yesterday i had a bearing failure of some sorts. Plan is to pick up another used stocker to throw on for now, and keep saving up for something a lot bigger.

If you want to do some "engine work" then do a Melling LPOP, head studs and a decent set of valve springs and pushrods. Don't waste your time or money on a re-build unless your going to get some billet rods, and shoot for a lot of power.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
You're prolly an old gasser guy. Ported heads and cams do help, I'm not sayin that, but they're not as beneficial as they are in a N/A engine because we have turbos to force air in the cylinders and 10, 20, 30+ psi so we can generally get enough air in to clean up the fuel. They guys who benefit from the cams and heads are the guys runnin huge injectors at a competition level. I've only seen one set of roller rockers and those we on an hrt built pullin engine. I'll say it again, performance injection systems 175/30 injectors, modded h2e, or 66mm equivalent turbo, honey badger jr would make a dang fine towin combo. More than a zf wants anyway
you are right I am an old gasser guy, this is my first diesel build but I do belive I can apply a lot of the same concepts that ive learned over the years and apply them here on this build, I don't need to get crazy with it but the 7.3 is a very popular engine and I figure there has to be some internal options, I understand there may not be a roller setup out there, but I have a hard time beliving the only aftermarket cams available are for full blown pulling engines..same thing with valve size in the heads, someone has to know a streetable combination...I cant be the only one that has wanted to do this.
 

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the stryker god
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People don't do it because havin a 25000 dollar engine for towin isn't everyone's cup of tea. My engine is used, full of used parts, second hand stuff and I'll tell you it takes a pretty stout rig to run with it.
 

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I want to build a motor built for towing. I want numbers around 400hp and 800ft/lbs. It needs to be reliable and last a long time. In theory, I would like to build it from the inside out and have it be capable of 400 hp before I go after injectors and a tuner....not sure how possible that is, but the way I see it, I have 444 cubic inches to play with so it shouldn't be a problem. the plan I have so far is to purchase a quality rebuild kit with .030 pistons. A new set of forged rods. Find a bigger cam (suggestions would be helpful) open up the heads and install bigger valves and springs. If I can do a full roller set up for the valve train I would like to. (Again suggestions on the valvetrain will be helpful) Also planning on doing a main bearing stud kit and a head stud kit. The trans is a ZF 6 speed, not really planning on doing much with it other than a good clutch. I know fuel delivery is a big factor in this equation too. I have already done the "hutch mod" and put a new spring in the FPR housing along with a new fuel pump, that netted me 72psi of fuel pressure. In my opinion that's pretty good. should be able to run some slightly bigger injectors without an issue. I am planning on running a new HPOP, and doing the crossover kit to make sure all injectors are getting the fuel they need. For the turbo...not too sure yet. It is an early 99 and im not sure how much power that turbo is able to support. I know I could make 400 hp pretty easily with some big injectors, a mean tune and a water methanol system but that isn't the way I want to make it, I wanna do the old school way and build it from the inside out to do what I want it to. Now I could be 100% wrong in my plan here, and if I am, someone please tell me. but any info that could be passed this way on building this engine would be appreciated.
400hp you don't need any of that crap, this list will get you 400hp

200/30 hybrid injectors
D66 turbo
Frx
Napa 6637 or afe big boost intake
4" dp to 4" exhaust
gauges (pryo, boost)
Custom tuned TS 6 position chip
Clutch: single disk south bend or a comparable single disk
HPOP: T500 (not really needed unless your current on is crappy)
 

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"Very worn" is a really loose term on these motors compared to gassers.

Chances are you'll have a much more reliable setup taking the money you want to use on the engine and applying it to a turbo kit thats proven bulletproof at that level, and some small injectors than you will with a stock turbo on your precieved version.

Btw, you will probably gain absolutely nothing at that level by going to rollers.
Except valve adjustments. Definitely better off stock for reliability.
 

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OBS Stroker
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you are wasting money in valve train parts. If you want it reliable all is need is springs and pushrods. There is a truck in the mid 10s with nitrous on a STOCK CAM, STOCK VALVES AND NO PORTING. There is no need for a cam. 400hp is VERY basic. A little bit larger than stock injectors, turbo for EGTs, and stock HPOP should be fine as long as it is in good working order. Only other thing you will need is a fuel system. Take the money you were going to use for cam/rebuild and put it towards and intercooler if you want.
 

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Village Idiot
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I do appreciate your suggestions on a HPOP and a turbo though. So again...does anyone have a suggestion on a cam, valve size, valve springs ect
There are guys out there with 400k-even 800k on the motor.
unless the compression test is low the motor itself should be fine.

if your dead set on a full rebuild for piece of mind...then go for it.
for 400 ponies you need:

chip with good tunes,...ie nltd, php, di, dp, gearhead, or swamps
turbo wise a t4 or t4i mount is best. a t4 mount will use the s3xx turbos, I would go with a modded qssb or h2e on the t4i.
or mod your e99 to a 360 bearing with a ww2, or go the d66 route ( a d66 will out flow a standard h2e)
get a valair or south bend clutch
injectors..... for 400 there are lots of choices but 160-200 is where I would look at. t500 or adrenaline hpop, for terminator or dieselsite.
Matt at gearhead is the man to go to on cams. but be warned without proper port and polish the cam is a waste of time, and if you port and polish wrong you loose power. the 7.3 does not react like an old 350.
pm machinist, gearhead, powerstrokejunkie for more info on that.
comp 910 springs are standard upgrade..(swamps has a good kit with the shims etc.) might as well do the arp head studs since the motor is out and you are no longer using seasoned head gaskets.

Since your set on towing at higher hp you will want a better intercooler and run water injection. cooling mist water injection are by far the best.
Before you ask a 6.0 ic is not enough they may lower egts an avg of 50°
you are looking at spearco , or diesel innovations design.

But be warned Charles found out the zf5 will not last under sustained high hp and high load...now Charles was pushing over 600.
That is why there are tow tunes. and race tunes.

Just call swamps or go over to psa. More people are serious about performance over there. Seems like a lot of money for not a lot of gain to me though.
no need to consult the big boys on psa for 400 ponies.
7-800 yes..
swamps, bean, or nltd can set you up with a package.

Mines lasted 6k miles with the current injectors, and i run the crap out of it, but yesterday i had a bearing failure of some sorts. Plan is to pick up another used stocker to throw on for now, and keep saving up for something a lot bigger.
just rebuild your stocker..bearing kits are cheap and easy..
 
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