Ford Power Stroke Nation banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So I made an earlier post about the E4od popping out of gear while on vacation in Death Valley, about 60miles from a paved road. I thought it might be the E4od transmission, but really wanted to diagnose it before pulling things apart. Fortunately for me, forum member transfixer, pointed me to the transfer gear case for a closer look.

http://www.powerstrokenation.com/forums/26-transmission-related/544217-e4od-transmission-jumps-out-gear-deceleration.html

Through some testing, more advice on what to look for from forum member 79jasper (thanks for the worn fok pic), watching a couple BW1356 rebuild videos on youtube, I came up with an explanation for why the grinding noise/syptoms. I pulled the t-case and got it apart on the bench, and I'll be dammed if the failure wasn't textbook.

Textbook with an additional root cause. My t-case has a small hole in it, near the selector arm. Being a magnesium case (weight savings?) and mag being extremely reactive with salt, me being a Bonneville Salt Flats racer and having used my van to tow out for races, it would appear that some salt got packed up onto the t-case, I missed it during my post race cleaning, it etched and ate a hole in the case! That cause the oil to get out (there was only 6oz left when I drained it 4 days ago), which in turn allowed the plastic wear pads to overheat and melt, fall off the range fork, allow the range slider to 'float' so much that it tried to slip into low, engage the planetary gear set (the sound that I mistook for popping out of gear) and rolled the teeth over.

The third pic shows the range fork's plastic wear pads laying in the bottom of the sump
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Glad you found it ! since you're going to need a case half now, you're best option might be find a good used one, and then crack it open to check the condition of the fork before you install it. Nothing to those things really, very easy to work on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
With the plastic wear pads missing from the range fork, the increased clearance allows the the range engagement sleeve, that puts the t-case in low range, isn't held in precise position any longer. It's now allowed to float back and forth on the shaft, trying to 'float' into partial engagement. For some reason on this t-case, deceleration puts some pressure on the engagement sleeve. You can see from the pics below that not only are the plastic inserts missing (i'm holding them in pic #2), but the die cast aluminum fork has been worn away by the spinning engagement sleeve (arrow, pics #1 and #3).
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
engagement sleeve teeth rolled over

I limped this rig home more than 400 miles, over some 4500ft passes, trying to not let it grind. I'm a little surprised the teeth didn't roll over so bad that I could get it into low range at all (while diagnosing the problem at home)

pics of the rolled over teeth, below
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
oil pump arm

While doing my internet research, it seems a common failure on this t-case is the oil pump. The pump has an anti-rotation arm that relies on the case in bump inside the case. Over time, the steel arm wears away the magnesium bump, the oil pump body now spins, ripping away the plastic pick up tube, ending lubrication and as they say "It's all over but the cryin' "

My case bump is worn about 2/3rds the way through :surprise:
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Re: oil pump arm

While doing my internet research, it seems a common failure on this t-case is the oil pump. The pump has an anti-rotation arm that relies on the case in bump inside the case. Over time, the steel arm wears away the magnesium bump, the oil pump body now spins, ripping away the plastic pick up tube, ending lubrication and as they say "It's all over but the cryin' "

My case bump is worn about 2/3rds the way through :surprise:
Yes, that happens with other transfer cases as well, Sonnax industries has a fix for that on the BW4411 case, and on some NP cases, I don't remember it being that common an issue back when we used to work on a lot of those, if you're creative you should be able to figure out a way to put a steel shim on the side of the case it contacts, maybe hold it in with a small screw or rivet ?

If I remember right the slight angle of the teeth on the engagement hub is what allows it to push back out of engagement on decal. Normally when we worked on those we replaced the fork and the hub, that and a seal kit and it was back on the road. The ones that were electric shift the motors would go bad from time to time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Glad you found it ! since you're going to need a case half now, you're best option might be find a good used one, and then crack it open to check the condition of the fork before you install it. Nothing to those things really, very easy to work on.
Thanks!

I know you say there's nothing to them, but I've been humbled by 'gear containing boxes of voodoo and black magic' before. I'll tell you the story of my first attempt to repair a VW transaxle that was popping out of reverse, sometime :wink:

I may try to repair this one, put a JB Weld patch on the hole (I'll take a closer look but might be non-load bearing area). Then weld a small rod onto the oil pump arm, like I've seen on another forum, to fix the worn case bump issue.

Thanks a ton for the help!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
oil pump arm re-design

I came up with a fix for the oil pump arm trying to beat a groove into the case.

I added a 1-1/2" long piece of 1/2" diameter steel tubing onto the end of the arm, where it was hammering a groove into the case. Funny that this is a common failure on these t-cases, but Borg Warner nor anyone else for that matter, offers an updated arm.

I coped the end of the arm so the tube fit nicely, then broke out the oxy-acetelyne torch and brazed it with silicon-bronze rod.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,677 Posts
Many cases have similar problems. A bushing would have saved many. Lol

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Used Pick-n-pull gearcase

I decided to look around for a used t-case, rather than fix this one up. But I want to know what's inside, particularly since pulling one of these things apart isn't rocket surgery, eh, brain science... uh, you get what I'm saying.

Disclaimer: I've been junkyard and swapmeet scrounging for 40yrs. I hate, I mean HATE crawling under junkyard carcasses rolling in the oily dirt or this time of year, often mud. Topside parts, no problem. Trim, seats, but geasey transmissions that might actually work, is not my thing. I've done more than my fair share of it over the years, and have grown to dislike it. But at the same time, I'm trying to recover from this deal inexpensively... hahahaha, Sportsmobile 4x4 van and inexpensive Now there's two words that look conspicuously out of place in the same sentence!

I figure out what vehicles the BW1356 came in, know they came with in manual and electric (don't want that) then flanged and splined outputs (don't want splined either) 4 possible combinations and I need 1 specific. Greaaaat. I do a little internet pick-n-pull stock searching, gather my tools, two changes of clothes and shoes, and head out. Not very optimistic, this could be a total bust ending in frustration.

I had better pick up a lottery ticket because the first Bronco, at the closest yard to home, not only had the t-case I was looking for (manual shift, flanged output shaft), but someone had already removed it from the truck, taking the transmission for themselves, but leaving the t-case on a piece of clean dry carpet, completely in tact w/linkage. The only thing missing was to find it resting on a silver platter, sitting on a hundred dollar bill!

All I did was a quick function check, drain a little fluid and smell it, pink and new smelling, it was all good. I loaded it onto one of their makeshift wheel barrels and headed for the gate. I hardly got dirty, outta there in 20minutes.

Every wrecking yard trip should be so successful!

But wait, there's more, it get's better: I get it on the bench, pull it apart, and this thing is nice inside! It's got the updated planetary w/bronze thrust washer, the later updated model 4wd fork, good plastic inserts on the range fork that look new. The leading edge of the teeth on the range engagement sleeve teeth look almost perfect. In fact, the entire thing looks like a reman unit with good parts, the bearings all spin very smooth. A $160 score!

I ordered a seal kit, and put the t-case back together yesterday using Three Bond sealant. God willin' an' the creek don't rise, I'll install it today.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,677 Posts
I've found them in similar locations. Can't say I've found one seemingly brand new/freshly rebuilt. Lol

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I've found them in similar locations. Can't say I've found one seemingly brand new/freshly rebuilt. Lol
Yeah, it was a real lucky score.

Even the one I found in the wrecking yard had the oil pump 'bump' about 1/3rd worn thru... That steel tube fix should do the trick.

I got it back together last weekend, just before heading to Cabo for vacation, it seems to work perfectly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Update:

I managed to get the t-case installed, function and 10 miles road test, just before heading to the airport for a well deserved resort vacation. No drips or issues, runs like a champ!

Now to look into the rear drum brake that started making noise during my desert trip...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
things learned along the way...

The plastic inserts (earlier picture, in my oily hand) are two different densities. That is to say, the plastic fork inserts from the Pick-n-pull t-case are harder, more dense plastic. They look new, too. Slightly different, the new fork's plastic inserts, and the failed inserts I found at the bottom of my original t-case, are made from this this waxy, translucent polyethylene looking stuff. More flexible and pliable plastic. I sent the new aftermarket parts back.

I also inspected the failed t-case a little more closely on the bench.

The corrosion around the shift shaft hole (earlier pic) weakened the precision shaft bore, and caused the shaft to wobble. While playing with it, shifting it in and out of the various selections, I could imagine the shaft being cocked and bound up, such that my original plastic inserts could melt and fall apart.

I'll bet that was the failure mode, chain of events so to speak. The salt (that I failed to wash off completely from my Bonneville trips, my bad) collected in this nook, reacted and corroded the magnesium case, letting the shift shaft and fork, bind. The hole allowed oil to splash out (my hpop or turbo pedestal seals are leaking, so didn't notice a little more oil under there, also my bad) and run low. The additional friction from the shift fork binding, low oil, melted the plastic inserts. With the inserts laying in the bottom of the sump, the extra 1/8" clearance allowed the high-low engagement sleeve to drift, under deceleration, sliding partially into low gear, grinding like a coffee grinder, rolling over the teeth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
I know this is an old post, but I am having the same issues with a 95 Bronco. My question is, did this fix your issue with stalling or binding up in reverse? Thanks ahead of time for any answer.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top