[ssaulnier]

My 2004 F-350 CC with 157k miles just started blowing a little black smoke constantly at idle which increases to lots of black smoke as the throttle is opened and RPM increases. If you blip the throttle a bit you can see some white smoke too mixed in with the black smoke. Power, turbo boost and acceleration seems to be OK. Fuel pressure shows about 70 psi with blue spring mod. Smells like fuel and not coolant. Not loosing coolant. Oil level is normal.

No codes are set. EGR valve was cleaned about 1000 miles ago. FICM, turbo, EGR cooler, oil cooler and head gaskets replaced for FORD parts years ago. Stock original injectors with no tuner. Atlas 40 FICM tune installed years ago. Archoil and synthetic 15W-40 Rotella T-6 has about 3000 miles on it with Amsoil bypass oil filter installed. Bypass coolant filter also installed years ago.

FORScan shows MAP, Baro and EBP all about 14.7 psi with KOEO.

I suspect over fueling. With engine warmed up, sitting in the driveway and revving the engine for a minute resulted in unburnt fuel dripping off the passenger side exhaust manifold and leaving a black 6 inch stain on the driveway. You can see the black stains where the exhausted unburnt fuel dripped off of the underside of the manifold at cylinder #7 in the attached photo (passenger side rear cylinder). I know that I need to pull off the exhaust manifold and install a gasket and new bolts, but suspect this is not the cause of the current over fueling situation. Photo seems upside down. It was taken on my back under the vehicle shooting up at the underside of the manifold.

I have not pulled the EGR yet or taken it to the Ford dealer for injector contribution testing yet. Sure seems like an injector overfueling, but no injector codes set yet.

What do you suggest as next steps?

 

[Weatherlite]

If you're certain it's fuel that's dripping out I wouldn't drive it again until that injector is replaced. However, I also hate replacing parts just because. A poor man's test would be to warm it up then get your hand back in there and disconnect that injector then do your revving again. If the dripping and smoking stops then you have an injector which is over fueling and needs to be replaced. If that does not stop your issue it MAY still be an issue with that injector. Plug it back in (because I don't like leaving things disconnected...we forget about it and later have problems because we forgot we disconnected it) and do a bubble test on your secondary fuel filter. If you don't know, basically you remove your secondary fuel filter, turn the key on momentarily to make sure it's got enough fuel in it, then use a wire on the passenger fender well to spin the engine with the key off and watch for bubbles. HERE is a down and dirty example of how it's done. If you have bubbles then that means you have a bad copper crush washer on one of your injectors. In this case if you had bubbles we would suspect #7 because that's where your issues seem to reside. A bad crush washer can allow exhaust gasses to eat away at the o-rings which could allow fuel to enter to combustion chamber when unwanted. If this is the case a simple o-ring/crush washer replacement would do the trick. My gut tells me it's the injector, but I guess we'll wait and see.

Also, what are you using to get codes? I cannot express how valuable FORScan on a laptop has been for me. Even the phone app is awesome...though a bit more difficult to use. Without FORScan you're likely not getting all the codes because very few readers can pull them all.

Keep us posted!

 

[ssaulnier]

Thanks Weatherlite. I did the bubble test this morning. While unscrewing the secondary fuel filter cap I could hear a lot of air being released. Its never done that before. When I first cranked the engine I got a huge geyser of fuel that shot out of the top of black fuel port in the center of the housing. After the some more fuel squirting it settled down to a constant stream of bubbles being ejected from the fuel pedestal.

My fuel pressure gauge has been showing this same thing, but I did not understand what was going on and thought the fuel pressure gauge was faulty. The 100 psi gauge would occasionally max out and then drop back to about 80 psi, sometimes going back to the correct 70 psi it showed after I did the Blue Spring Mod. Apparently the gauge was fine and it was trying to tell me that the fuel pressure at the filter bowl was being pressurized by the cylinder pressure being pushed back through one of the injectors.

I will pull the valve cover off and investigate. These are stock injectors and have never been removed. I will start with the passenger side because that is where I saw the fuel dripping off the exhaust manifold and see what I find.

I suspect I should pull all 8 of the injectors and replace the orings and crush washers. I guess it could be a defective injector too? Are new Motorcraft injectors still available?

Thanks, Steve

 

[bismic1]

These guys sell OEM re-manufactured injectors as well as new ones (from Pure Power):

Alliant Power Fuel Injectors

Alliant Power 6.0 Powerstroke injectors are manufactured by PurePower Technologies the supplier to Motorcraft. With more than 17 years of product design and manufacturing experience, PurePower Technologies' injectors exceed engine manufacturers' most recent approved design specifications...

bitterrootdiesel.com

If you have one injector blowing combustion gas back into the fuel rail, then probably all injectors on that bank have been damaged. If you no longer have the stock banjo bolts, it could be that all 8 injectors are damaged.

 

[Weatherlite]

You're not going to see anything when looking under the valve covers unfortunately. There are only two ways to figure out which one is the problem.....trial and error or meticulous, methodical diagnosis. The latter of which is a pain. You need to pull one of the lines off the bowl which goes to either cylinder head, plug the hole, and then repeat the test. Now swap lines and repeat. That isolates each head and verifies if you have a leak in both heads or if it's only in one. Once you've narrowed it down you have to pull three glow plugs on the side you're testing. Repeat the test and record if you have bubbles. Now pull that glow plug and install the next one then test and record results. Keep repeating for all cylinders on the side you verified has the leak.....although I suppose you could skip the part about pulling the line from the bowl and just do the glow plugs on all 8 instead. Whichever cylinders had the glow plugs installed at times there were bubbles are the ones which have bad crush washers. The trial and error method is just assuming which injector has a bad washer and replacing the parts while hoping for the best. lol

In your case, since there are so many things pointing to that one cylinder I would honestly go ahead and replace that injector's o-rings and crush washer. Once reinstalled I would then re-do the bubble test while everything is disassembled....that way if I found I still needed to do more work I wouldn't have to tear it back down. However, if you have the time, patience, and believe your glow plug harness won't break (these things get brittle with age) you really should do a full check by using the glow plug method. Of course there's also the method of replacing all o-rings and crush washers thereby skipping the diagnosis part and getting new stuff across the board. lol Expensive and unnecessary, but an option.

And Bismic, as always, is right. lol I've never used the Pure Power, just Motorcraft. Never use aftermarket unless you absolutely must have bigger injectors for a tune. So many stories of bad/broken injectors out there.

 

[ssaulnier]

Thanks guys. I will pull the glow plug out of cylinder 7 first and see if the bubbles stop.

Is it recommended to replace all of the crush washers and orings on a single side, or on both sides, if you have just one leaking?

 

[Weatherlite]

That's actually really smart....kind of working it in reverse to eliminate steps since you already have a suspect cylinder!

Honestly, that's been a debate for years. Some people swear by replacing everything just because you're there. Others say only replace the part that's bad. Myself, in this case I would only replace the bad one and leave the rest alone.

One more thing.....just because you have a bad crush washer doesn't mean you don't also have a bad fuel injector. It's possible one led to the other. Or it's possible replacing the washer and o-rings solves everything. Unfortunately this is going to be one of the times you just can't tell. Although, I would definitely take a close look at the injector while it's out and make sure nothing is loose, bent, broken, etc.

 

[ssaulnier]

Thanks for your guidance on using the glow plugs to troubleshoot. Pulling the cylinder #7 glow plug did indeed stop that cylinders compression gasses from pressurizing the fuel filter bowl. No more bubbles in the secondary fuel filter bowl while cranking the engine.

I removed the passenger side inner fender liner to access the glow plugs and that also made it easier to actually see and access the valve cover bolts. Last night I removed the Charge Air tube, the glow plug controller, ICP valve and valve cover. Everything is very tight in there. Not a lot of room to get your hands on the bolts, but not really too bad. I think I worked on it for about 2.5 hours last night.

This evening, if I am not too sore. I'll try to get the fuel rail and the #7 injector out and have a good look at them.

While I have it apart I will change all the injector cup orings, install updated stand pipe and dummy plugs, ICP valve oring, either new injectors or new orings and crush washers. Is anything else recommended?

I am leaning toward replacing all 4 of the injectors with new ones since the old ones have 157k miles on them and I plan on keeping the truck for another 10 or 20 years. And I think I can still find new injectors now so might as well buy these 4 Alliant Pure Power injectors while they are still available.

Not sure if I should pull off the exhaust manifold and install a gasket along with new bolts while I have the fender liner out. Seems like a good idea, but my 64 year old joints are complaining already.........

 

[ssaulnier]

One more thing. I did notice that the #7 glow plug was wet with fuel when I removed it.

 

[bismic1]

So you have a late 04 with the ICP on the passenger valve cover?

IMO, there is no way that the whole passenger bank (at a minimum) of injectors could have avoided being somewhat starved for fuel as combustion gas from #7 back-pressured the fuel rail. I think it is wise to change all on that side of you can afford it. It isn't just the O-rings and crush washer that gets damaged when fuel starved ......

You didn't comment on the banjo bolts, so maybe you still have stock ones and the driver's side was unaffected.

As far as Pure Power injectors go - they make the 6.0L injectors for Ford and International. They always did. Also, they are the company that re-manufactured them for Ford and International. Always did. Pure Power was a joint venture company formed by International and Siemens.

In the early days, Alliant wasn't involved in that. In 2017, Pure Power and Alliant agreed to a partnership where Alliant became the "distributor" for Pure Power.

 

[ssaulnier]

Bismic thanks for your informative reply.

Yes late 2004 f350 with ICP on passenger valve cover and stock banjo bolts with the internal check valves.

Do you recommend buying new banjo bolt crush washers, or annealing the old ones?

Are the stock banjo bolts reusable?

I want this truck to be reliable so will replace all 4 injectors on this side with new Pure Power units as you suggest.

Since I have the fender liner removed I am considering installing a gasket under the exhaust manifold. Who sells these gaskets? Ford or aftermarket?

Thanks for your help

 

[bismic1]

Stock banjo bolts are re-usable.

Annealing the copper washers works fine.

Ford sells the exhaust manifold gaskets. Probably other places do as well.

6C3Z-9448-A

Edit: Fel Pro MS96833

 

[Weatherlite]

Glad to hear you're getting things figured out! I don't make the recommendation to others, but I'm a lot like you in that I'll go ahead and replace any of the old soft parts when I'm that deep in the engine. All those o-rings and the new tubes aren't all that expensive and the insurance they provide is invaluable. One final thought is check you oil afterwards. If you're close to needing an oil change you might want to just go ahead and do one anyway. If there was fuel leaking past the crush washer then you may have had some oil dilution. A certain amount is acceptable, but there's no way to know how much you have unless you do an oil analysis. I would probably just do the dipstick sniff and examine the color to decide if I'd change it. Of course that's just one man's opinion.

Bismic, yet again you have enlightened me. It seems common sense now that I read it, but I never would have thought about the fuel pressure starvation on the other three injectors. Thank you for the education!

 

[ssaulnier]

Well, I have finally finished replacing the 4 injectors on the passenger side using Reman Alliant parts AP60901 since I could not find any new ones. Also replaced the 4 o-rings on the oil rail cups using $112 Alliant socket AP0069 and installed the upgraded Motorcraft 12mm dummy plug and standpipe. Also installed FELPRO exhaust manifold gasket on passenger side.

Replaced oil with 6 Qts Rotella T6 15W-40 and 9.5 Qts T6 5W-40. (I think I bought the last 2 gallons of T6 5W-40 in San Antonio.) I did not prime the oil rail during install by filling it up at the dummy plug. It has enough oil to register above the add mark on the dipstick. I can probably add another quart or so but will wait until I add the Archoil AR9100 and measure the dipstick carefully on level ground first.

I primed the engine by cranking twice for about 15 seconds each using the starter wire under the hood. Key off.

Then while cranking using the key it took another couple 15 second cranks until the oil pressure gauge on the dash showed pressure. Then the engine fired up and idled pretty good. I checked for leaks and saw none. The exhaust no longer stinks like over fueled diesel and does not make your eyes water.

I let it run a minute or two then shut it off and restarted. Again it took a little longer to build oil pressure and start, but idled fine. I shut the engine off and reinstalled the passenger side wheel well cover. I then let it sit overnight since it was late and I don't like to test drive on the highway after dark..

Took it for a 15 minute run down the highway this morning and it ran fine, with just a little bit of exhaust smoke. After the trans and engine temperature gauges moved to the normal range I made a couple full throttle runs up to 80 mph or so. The last two runs had no visible smoke out of the exhaust. And the fuel pressure gauge shows a constant 75 psi or so instead of occasional full scale +100 psi bursts of cylinder gas overpressure.

I call this a win! Thanks for all your help!

I'll add some picture of the old injectors below.

 

[ssaulnier]

 

[ssaulnier]

First image above has Injectors in order front to back, like in the vehicle 1,3,5 and 7 at the top of image.
Next two photos show Injector 1 uncleaned and cleaned. It looks better than the rest. No blow by and no heat marks.
Next two photos show Injector 3 uncleaned and cleaned. It has some soot deposits and some colored heat marks.
Next two photos show Injector 5 uncleaned and cleaned. It had the most soot deposits on the body and the most intense colored heat marks. Perhaps this one was overfueling the most?
Last two photos show Injector 7 uncleaned and cleaned. It had the most soot on its nozzle tip but no heat marks on the body. This is the one I think was passing combustion gasses back into the fuel rail.

I replaced all 4 with Remanufactured Alliant AP60901 injectors.

 

[bismic1]

I would say you made some good choices!

 

[Zmann]

wonder what happened to the new injectors from the OEM mfg Pure Power that alliant was having made ?
idiots still charged a core so maybe they did not sell as anticipated ?

 

[ssaulnier]

In general I prefer to buy new OEM parts whenever available. But I don’t really know anything about the service life of fuel injectors or the remanufacturing process and components used.

How do these Alliant remanufactured injectors compare to new ones?

Having a 2 year warranty is better than nothing I suppose but the originals lasted 18 years.

Should the remanufactured injectors still be expected to last 150k to 200k miles like the originals?

 

[bismic1]

If they are remanufactured by Pure Power, then you should get quite good reliability and life out of them. It may not be as good as the originals, but it should be very good. All Ford remanufactured injectors are remanufactured by Pure Power. I assume that, with their agreement, the remanufactured ones from Alliant are also done by Pure Power.

I am at 16 years and 237k miles. Still doing well.