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Discussion Starter #1
I have been keeping an eye on this thing, even with all these people coming together to try to make some progress on the healthcare issue, it looks like a big waste of time.

There have been several times that someone would challenge a point of Obama's and he would just say "...well that is a legitimate point..." and would just move on, without ever addressing the legimitate point. It is ridiculus. Obama just now totally ignored a point raised about malpractice reform.

One thing to me, that makes it almost impossible for anyone to get anything done in Washington, is everyone just pulls numbers out of their butts. There needs to be some sort of organization to their statistics. One guy says there will be 500 billion in savings, then it is 200 billion, or 400 billion. There is absolutely no consistency in anything they do and it seems to be wildley inefficient.

Just some thoughts I had when watching this thing. I also get fed up hearing everyone ram their head up Obama's rear before they speak!

Anyone else have any thoughts?
 

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My thoughts?

It is time for a revolution. It is time the guberment gets cuts down to the correct size. It is time for the guberment to do what they are constitutionaly allowed / required to do, no more no less.

Until that happens this will only get worse.
 

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There have been several times that someone would challenge a point of Obama's and he would just say "...well that is a legitimate point..." and would just move on, without ever addressing the legimitate point. It is ridiculus. Obama just now totally ignored a point raised about malpractice reform.
I've noticed that he does that..... often.

One thing to me, that makes it almost impossible for anyone to get anything done in Washington, is everyone just pulls numbers out of their butts. There needs to be some sort of organization to their statistics. One guy says there will be 500 billion in savings, then it is 200 billion, or 400 billion. There is absolutely no consistency in anything they do and it seems to be wildley inefficient.
Now that's politics as usual. Anyone remember the term "fuzzy math"?

Just some thoughts I had when watching this thing. I also get fed up hearing everyone ram their head up Obama's rear before they speak!
"I would like to thank the president for the opportunity to speak".....

F-that. I'm an American, and it's my RIGHT to speak. It's not an opportunity, I don't need permission, and it's not a privilege.... it's a right! Just try and shut me up. Other people on the forum have!!!! :poke: ;) LOL

Anyone else have any thoughts?
Yeah, why are you watching that anyway? There's a "babe of the day" thread that deserves way more attention than a room full of windbags. :evil
 

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You know what's really odd????? Vice President Biden has always been ridiculed as an idiot, kinda like Dan Quayle as VP under Bush Sr. Yet I think he said the smartest thing the entire night, and probably has more insight than anyone else in Washington with this statement:

"I think it requires a little bit of humility to be able to know what the American people think, and I don't. I can't swear I do. I know what I think. I think I know what they think, but I'm not sure what they think."

At least he can admit it. Something that I haven't heard from any other politician in Washington. Maybe I'll vote for Biden..... well, that might be a stretch. But at least he's made it up one rung on the ladder. So he's on rung #1.
 

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I see the nuclear option coming soon to a theater near you. Glad to see that 58-63% (depends on who did the poll) of Americans don't want this, but they are going to ram it to us anyway. What happened to elected by the people for the people?
 

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I see the nuclear option coming soon to a theater near you. Glad to see that 58-63% (depends on who did the poll) of Americans don't want this, but they are going to ram it to us anyway. What happened to elected by the people for the people?
Those numbers are from a poll on the current health care bill, which is pretty much dead.

However, a majority of Americans do believe that our current health care system needs to be fixed. Problem is, a majority of Americans have a much better solution to fixing the problem than Washington.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yeah, why are you watching that anyway? There's a "babe of the day" thread that deserves way more attention than a room full of windbags. :evil
I had it playing on my computer while I was working today just to see what kind of crap they are dreaming up that they think you and I and everyone else "NEEDS" or else.
 

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I had it playing on my computer while I was working today just to see what kind of crap they are dreaming up that they think you and I and everyone else "NEEDS" or else.
Such a sin to rob so much bandwidth away from porn. :poke: ;)
 

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Those numbers are from a poll on the current health care bill, which is pretty much dead. Yeah, I know those numbers are for the bill that we already have, I have this bad feeling though they will shove it thru with the nuclear option, we will see in the real near future. I did notice that Obama didn't take that off the table today unless it was after 2:00, I haven't updated where we set yet.

However, a majority of Americans do believe that our current health care system needs to be fixed. Problem is, a majority of Americans have a much better solution to fixing the problem than Washington.
I can't think of anyone I know that doesn't think Health Care needs to be reformed, but I also don't know anybody that wants anything to do with what is on the table either.
 

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I just finished watching this on the web. Did the POTUS' closing comments basically say... if the republicans can't give their own plan and/or agree in amendments to the current plan, they'll just go ahead with reconciliation? Sounded like a threat to me *shrugs*

As one of the millions of Americans who doesn't have health insurance, I'd prefer to not have the govt in charge of this. All of us can agree I think, reform is needed but mandating it isn't something most of us want.

A time or so, some of those folks commented that SS and Medicaid/Medicare was tough legislation to pass. Probably so, I wasn't into politics then but what we all see now, is the huge mess these things are in today. How in the hell, will this be any different?

frustrated!
 

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Gandy Dancer
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I can't think of anyone I know that doesn't think Health Care needs to be reformed, but I also don't know anybody that wants anything to do with what is on the table either.
I think anyone who is conversant with health care would agree with you that it needs to be reformed.

I also think the reason the proposed bill was such a mess is because the Repub's have basically been the 'Party of No' since the last election and want to be a roadblock........not a participant.

Let's keep in mind that most Repub's have not shown one iota of interest in health reform for the last umpteen years. When they held the majority, it wasn't even on their radar.

Now they're whining because they weren't included in the process. :rolleyes:

It's time for both sides of the aisle to step up and help the millions of Americans who don't have health insurance or have lost their homes just paying the deductible.

Here in America, you are entitled to a lawyer when you need it but..................... not medical care? :eek:

WTF is wrong with that picture? :(
 

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I think anyone who is conversant with health care would agree with you that it needs to be reformed.

I also think the reason the proposed bill was such a mess is because the Repub's have basically been the 'Party of No' since the last election and want to be a roadblock........not a participant.

Let's keep in mind that most Repub's have not shown one iota of interest in health reform for the last umpteen years. When they held the majority, it wasn't even on their radar.

Now they're whining because they weren't included in the process. :rolleyes:

It's time for both sides of the aisle to step up and help the millions of Americans who don't have health insurance or have lost their homes just paying the deductible.

Here in America, you are entitled to a lawyer when you need it but..................... not medical care? :eek:

WTF is wrong with that picture? :(
Here ya go Pocket, what people get from your media bias, the Republicans have on multiple times given ideas of tort reform, HSA deducability, portability, among others but that info isn't out there if you only tune into the state ran media is it?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I got the impression as well with Obama's closing remarks that it was his way or the high way and that it would they would leave it to the next election to determine who stays and who goes because of it. To me, that is a bunch of crap.

John Dingle was whinning about the 51 votes as well...Obama seems to think that if for no other reason, than Dingle being old and having his father talk about healtcare reform, the whole country should be on board with his overhaul.
 

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Gandy Dancer
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Re: Anyone watching the health care summit?

Here ya go Pocket, what people get from your media bias, the Republicans have on multiple times given ideas of tort reform, HSA deducability, portability, among others but that info isn't out there if you only tune into the state ran media is it?
Can you provide any proof that Republicans have proposed any legislation, prior to the last election, on significant health care reform?

Can you show me anything that they have proposed in the last 8 years to cover the 40-50 million uninsured Americans?

Sure, they want on the bandwagon now.

With piddling items like tort reform (<2% of health costs)

Tort Reform

It’s really just a distraction,” said Tom Baker, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania Law School and author of “The Medical Malpractice Myth.” “If you were to eliminate medical malpractice liability, even forgetting the negative consequences that would have for safety, accountability, and responsiveness, maybe we’d be talking about 1.5 percent of health care costs. So we’re not talking about real money. It’s small relative to the out-of-control cost of health care.”
As far as selling across state lines, I think that is a good idea. However, no one has shown where that will make much difference in the cost of rising health insurance either.

And the real issue is that we have maybe as many as 50 million American citizens that can't get affordable health insurance. A lot of those people are the salt of our nation such as farmers, ranchers, small business owners, etc.

Surely you can't think that this is an acceptable situation for the greatest nation this planet has ever seen?

Do you?
 

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Here ya go Pocket, what people get from your media bias, the Republicans have on multiple times given ideas of tort reform, HSA deducability, portability, among others but that info isn't out there if you only tune into the state ran media is it?
Republicans have made very minor changes to health care when they were in charge. IMO it wasn't enough. Not even close. Hence the problems we still have right now with the out of control spiraling costs.

HSA's started under Bush, but their limitations keep them from being a viable option for many Americans. Personally I'm a huge supporter of HSA's, and wish that many of the restrictions would be lifted to make them more attractive.

As for tort reform, Bush wanted it, but didn't get it. Very little was done there.
 

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Gandy Dancer
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Here's what is in the future for all of us without the government getting involved.

Anthem/Blue Cross to Raise Rates

San Francisco – Anthem Blue Cross, the health insurer that plans to boost rates by as much as 39 percent in California this year, has become a lightning rod in the national debate over healthcare reform. In President Obama’s healthcare summit Thursday, both Republicans and Democrats held up the company as an example of why the federal government needs to take steps to keep rising insurance premiums in check.

The same people who have the attitude of....'I got mine, screw you'....will be screaming when it happens to them.

Of course, if you can't even get health insurance.................. it really doesn't matter.
.
 

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Can you provide any proof that Republicans have proposed any legislation, prior to the last election, on significant health care reform?

Can you show me anything that they have proposed in the last 8 years to cover the 40-50 million uninsured Americans?

Sure, they want on the bandwagon now.

With piddling items like tort reform (<2% of health costs)

Tort Reform



As far as selling across state lines, I think that is a good idea. However, no one has shown where that will make much difference in the cost of rising health insurance either.

And the real issue is that we have maybe as many as 50 million American citizens that can't get affordable health insurance. A lot of those people are the salt of our nation such as farmers, ranchers, small business owners, etc.

Surely you can't think that this is an acceptable situation for the greatest nation this planet has ever seen?

Do you?
Don't need to prove it, but since your computer can't look up anything that shows your bias

http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/52896

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE61757T20100208



Republicans have made very minor changes to health care when they were in charge. IMO it wasn't enough. Not even close. Hence the problems we still have right now with the out of control spiraling costs.

HSA's started under Bush, but their limitations keep them from being a viable option for many Americans. Personally I'm a huge supporter of HSA's, and wish that many of the restrictions would be lifted to make them more attractive.

As for tort reform, Bush wanted it, but didn't get it. Very little was done there.
This just goes to show your bias against conservatives Curtis, any time anybody posts something that isn't true, your all over it, unless it is saying that the republicans haven't given any solutions to something. Then you just sweep it under the rug like you didn't notice. Seems that you follow the same policy's that you bash Fox News or Beck for. Hypocrisy at its best, eh? Notice I was only about the only one that admitted to Sara Palin's flip flop, but I also gave my opinion why she probably did too.
 

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This just goes to show your bias against conservatives Curtis, any time anybody posts something that isn't true, your all over it, unless it is saying that the republicans haven't given any solutions to something. Then you just sweep it under the rug like you didn't notice. Seems that you follow the same policy's that you bash Fox News or Beck for. Hypocrisy at its best, eh? Notice I was only about the only one that admitted to Sara Palin's flip flop, but I also gave my opinion why she probably did too.
No, I was partially agreeing with both of you, because both of you are partially right, and partially wrong. Actually I was doing more to agree with you ducati.... yet somehow that still managed to piss you off. :confused:

Gandy was correct that the republican party has been a party of no since the last election in regards to health care. They have used tactics to completely bury the health care reform proposals, and only hinted that they were willing to negotiate with democrats. Truth is, democrats have shut out republicans, and republicans have shut out democrats. Look at the first link you gave in that post, the GOP.gov site. They are using words like "government takeover", "destroy", "hurt seniors". That's hardly the type of language used by a group who is looking for middle ground and is willing to work with the other party.

On the other hand, you are also correct that republicans have had ideas and even a bit of legislation in the past that addressed health care (such as HSA's.... hell I was even agreeing with you there!!!). HSA's are a great idea, and is something I supported when Bush signed it. However, I wish that it went further than what is has so far, because it's still a very very limited option. At any rate, I do disagree with Gandy when he said that republicans when in control didn't even have health care on their radar, because they did. The only thing I can really say is that republicans weren't willing to overhaul the system, which personally I think it desperately needs.

In reality, democrats do have some key points on their side addressing health care. Republicans also have some key points on their side addressing health care. When the two parties actually do come together and use a bit of common sense, we might actually get a solution. But the likelihood of that happening is about the same odds as me winning the lottery.

So get your panties out of a wad. I didn't blast your post in the least, and I wasn't trying to sweep anything under the rug. I'm sorry I didn't jump to pick a side, mainly because both of you were right and wrong at the same time. Figured you could both duke it out, which you were doing just fine without me.
 

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Gandy Dancer
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Don't need to prove it, but since your computer can't look up anything that shows your bias
Funny how it seems that everyone else is "biased"..............except you. ;)

After all, isn't having an opinion..................... the definition of "bias?" :rolleyes:

■Number one: let families and businesses buy health insurance across state lines. I agree
■Number two: allow individuals, small businesses, and trade associations to pool together and acquire health insurance at lower prices, the same way large corporations and labor unions do.What does he mean by "allow?" A new federal law to force insurance companies to accept a new group?
■Number three: give states the tools to create their own innovative reforms that lower health care costs.This shows his ignorance of the real problems. Doesn't he understand that it is the variety of regulations, within each state, that is a big part of the impediment to selling across state lines? Yet, now he's saying that they should make up more rules. It doesn't make sense to me.
■Number four: end junk lawsuits that contribute to higher health care costs by increasing the number of tests and procedures that physicians sometimes order not because they think it's good medicine, but because they are afraid of being sued.Define "junk lawsuit." If your mother/father/spouse/children died due to a doctor that was at fault, are you willing to just say..."oh well?" And who draws the line on what tests are excessive? Establish government standards? If you have a serious medical problem, do you want the government to tell the doctor how many tests they can do? Even if it doesn't isolate your particular condition?

Where is the biggest problem we have, uninsured Americans.......addressed?


Same old thing.

I believe that having a public option is the only way we will ever have affordable health care for all Americans. It is saddening at the number of people who prescribe to the; "I got mine, screw you"....... mentality.

Everything you have referenced, has been a reaction to the Democratic controlled Congress in the last 12 months.

You have not provided a single instance of where Republicans have proposed comprehensive reform before being drug, kicking/screaming/whining into the debate within the last year.

Maybe you need to look in the mirror as it is really your bias that's showing. ;)








This just goes to show your bias against conservatives Curtis, any time anybody posts something that isn't true, your all over it, unless it is saying that the republicans haven't given any solutions to something. Then you just sweep it under the rug like you didn't notice. Seems that you follow the same policy's that you bash Fox News or Beck for. Hypocrisy at its best, eh? Notice I was only about the only one that admitted to Sara Palin's flip flop, but I also gave my opinion why she probably did too.[/QUOTE]
 

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No, I was partially agreeing with both of you, because both of you are partially right, and partially wrong. Actually I was doing more to agree with you ducati.... yet somehow that still managed to piss you off. :confused:

Gandy was correct that the republican party has been a party of no since the last election in regards to health care. They have used tactics to completely bury the health care reform proposals, and only hinted that they were willing to negotiate with democrats. Truth is, democrats have shut out republicans, and republicans have shut out democrats. Look at the first link you gave in that post, the GOP.gov site. They are using words like "government takeover", "destroy", "hurt seniors". That's hardly the type of language used by a group who is looking for middle ground and is willing to work with the other party.

On the other hand, you are also correct that republicans have had ideas and even a bit of legislation in the past that addressed health care (such as HSA's.... hell I was even agreeing with you there!!!). HSA's are a great idea, and is something I supported when Bush signed it. However, I wish that it went further than what is has so far, because it's still a very very limited option. At any rate, I do disagree with Gandy when he said that republicans when in control didn't even have health care on their radar, because they did. The only thing I can really say is that republicans weren't willing to overhaul the system, which personally I think it desperately needs.

In reality, democrats do have some key points on their side addressing health care. Republicans also have some key points on their side addressing health care. When the two parties actually do come together and use a bit of common sense, we might actually get a solution. But the likelihood of that happening is about the same odds as me winning the lottery.

So get your panties out of a wad. I didn't blast your post in the least, and I wasn't trying to sweep anything under the rug. I'm sorry I didn't jump to pick a side, mainly because both of you were right and wrong at the same time. Figured you could both duke it out, which you were doing just fine without me.
Like I have said before, nothing anyone posts against me gets my panties in a bunch, it's the F'ing internet, I just enjoy debating although we disagree on a lot of things, I believe there are some things we agree on.
 
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