[SmokeWagon]

Hi,

new here....Looking for more towing power for my Excursion. Don't want to get crazy on power and from what I gather here some stock AC codes should be a nice upgrade but for $1700 I may want a touch more for my $$$$.

But...alas, I'm confused. From what I've read stock nozzles are better for towing giving better atomazation but more CC flow will give more power. I've looked at Swamps single 175/146 injector but don't want remaned. I want new. How much of an upgrade is a 175cc AC code with a stock nozzle? And where could I get AC's modde to get 175cc?

A regulated return will be done at the same time but no turbo mods at this time....until she goes.

thanks

 

[Tom S]

Any of the regular injector guys can mod those AC injectors for you. I personally think that a regular AC injector would make for a nice smile on your face without needing a ton of supporting mods.


Tom

 

[69W900A]

Get AC's from DDP. AC's have stock PowerStroke nozzles because they came out of the same engine, but in T444E trim. If you buy the AC's from DDP you can have them work the nozzles over and you will have a good injector that will tow and drive nice. With the correct supporting mods you should be around 400hp with DDP AC's.

 

[gregrob]

What year is your excursion? I second the recommendation for injs from DDP.

If your a PMR engine, I would go for some 23LPM units.

 

[DarkShadowDiesel]

i think DDP's ACs come with worked nozzles, don't they?

 

[gregrob]

i think DDP's ACs come with worked nozzles, don't they?

Yes they do, 29LPM is the standard IIRC. I have talked to the guys there and they can do nozzles @ 23 LPM and they are eh'd to clean and balance them all.
They said that's about as small as they can go and balance them well. I know they can do 21lpm but the variance would be greater. The 23's will be matched dang close.

A certian PMR truck may just be getting those and some cylinder pressure testing to go along with them, if he doesn't just build his engine over the winter and go straight to B codes.

 

[TerminatorEngineering]

go straight to B codes.

Now your thinking!
Oh wait, did I give it away?oke:

 

[gregrob]

not me

I'm gonna stroke these A codes and get tired of them first

 

[THEDIESELMAN]

not me

I'm gonna stroke these A codes and get tired of them first

You will never get tired of stoking it LOL.

 

[Haul_n_horses2]

Get AC's from DDP. AC's have stock PowerStroke nozzles because they came out of the same engine, but in T444E trim. If you buy the AC's from DDP you can have them work the nozzles over and you will have a good injector that will tow and drive nice. With the correct supporting mods you should be around 400hp with DDP AC's.

Well I am not particularly happy with my DDP ACs with 21 Lpm nozzles. Mileage dropped 3 mpg from stock (and I drive like an old grandma) across the board. I used to get 11 mpg towing 26K# here in the Midwest. Plus I can smoke out an intersection at will with an undisciplined right foot. Supporting mods include AIS with fender sleeve, H2e, Spearco CAC, DP-Tuner tunes and BTS dual HPOP and tranny. I was hoping for a mileage increase around town and on the road. Now I hope that live tuning on the F5 chip programs will get some of the economy back.

 

[SmokeWagon]

LOL....everyone here said "work the nozzle"....exactly the oposite of what I said I didn't want. I think more CC flow like Swamps single shot 175/146 is the ticket.

Who would modify for more CC flow...KEEPING the stock nozzle?

 

[Haul_n_horses2]

LOL....everyone here said "work the nozzle"....exactly the oposite of what I said I didn't want. I think more CC flow like Swamps single shot 175/146 is the ticket.

Who would modify for more CC flow...KEEPING the stock nozzle?

I guess my post was too obtuse. I am not particularly happy with my mildly EHd nozzles. I am thinking I should have stuck with stock or if any work was done on the nozzles, perhaps EDM should have been used instead. My stock AC ccs at 160, produce amazing power. Get on it on a freeway on ramp and you are doing 90 before you know it. With a PMR bottom end, I am not looking for more. Just wish the fuel consumption was less.

 

[Charles]

I've looked at Swamps single 175/146 injector but don't want remaned. I want new.

That statement alone deserves some information. Your heart is in the right place, unfortunately, "new" injectors just aren't very trustworth in my experience. I actually took a brand new set of alliants and replaced a set of modified injectors from swamps one time due to a parts availability issue for my other set. The truck ran fine and all, (obviously no power) but I could tell it had a miss at times, and it was just not nearly as smooth.

Once pulled back out to re-install my actual set of injectors again they were torn down for the first time since they arrived new in the box. They probably had 3000 miles on them, maybe less. The tolerances were stupid horrable. There is simply no way that alliant actually checked those tolerances and with any level of error factor sent them out. They are simply unaware of the relationships between certain injector components and do not even know to check them to begin with.

The end result was that just as screwed up as the tolerances were, the injectors didn't flow horrably, but tell-tale flow deficiencies were there. Part throttle (2ish ms of pw and moderate ICP) they got all over the place. Full pw and good ICP they would empty and looked to be balanced. But the length of the pulse was masking their flow imbalance, because some would empty quickly, while others would take longer. With a long enough pulse it would show balanced.

If they only flow them at a full empty on the bench then they would never catch it. And judging by the tolerances, they damn sure aren't checking a lot of that.

Basically, the only thing different about a "new" injector vs one from just about any reputable shop is the body. As most everything else that actually touches the oil and the fuel is new. Plus, it has someone who cares actually putting it together.

"New" injectors are taking the chance, and a quality injector from an injection shop is the "sure thing" IMO.

Two Cents

 

[UNLIMITED_DIESEL]

If you want NEW AC's, then, get them, put them in, get some tuning, and be happy. It would not be worth your time or money to increase the flow of an AC from 168 to 175cc's. That is only 7cc's, and IMHO not worth the time waisted to machine the piston 0.25mm. If you want to modify the AC's use a SLIGHTLY modified nozzle. You will be more happy in the long run. If you truly want 175cc's of fuel and no nozzle modification, Call Swamps, They have some of the nicest injectors out there.

 

[TerminatorEngineering]

Now I hope that live tuning on the F5 chip programs will get some of the economy back.

That should make an improvement.

 

[Tinscout]

LOL....everyone here said "work the nozzle"....exactly the oposite of what I said I didn't want. I think more CC flow like Swamps single shot 175/146 is the ticket.

Who would modify for more CC flow...KEEPING the stock nozzle?

It typically takes more than one pump to run more than 175 cc A codes. If you have the oil to run them then yes, go bigger. Retaining stock nozzles can get you over 400 hp that is efficient, clean, and quick.

 

[thetonka]

Anyone else have comments on the quality of new injectors vs. rebuild by a good shop? I am thinking brand new ACs but if the rebuilts are better, then I'd rather save the money.

 

[UNLIMITED_DIESEL]

FWIW, Alliant Powers are scattered all across the board, when it comes to being in spec. I agree with Charles that there is no way they check anything when they produce them. Go with a trusted rebuilder and you will be much happier.

 

[gregrob]

LOL....everyone here said "work the nozzle"....exactly the oposite of what I said I didn't want. I think more CC flow like Swamps single shot 175/146 is the ticket.

Who would modify for more CC flow...KEEPING the stock nozzle?

Sorry I didn't read it right, thanks for clarifying.

I love my 180cc's with stock nozzle.

Smoke is VERY controllable, in the 80 tune it does not smoke in normal traffic, and will only have a light haze if I mash it hard getting on the interstate, etc.

I can turn up the chip and it will flood a tailgater. (useful sometimes )

It pulls HARD, very fun to drive.

I'm very happy with my decision to go with stock nozzles considering my PMR's. With the Terminator oil setup, this is a combo that tows great, drives great, races great. :gun:

 

[Powerstroke Racer]

We have sold and installed lottsa AC and AD alliant injectors and have yet to warranty 1, much less have idle or drivabilty problems.
The 2 year warranty is hard to beat as well.