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Discussion Starter #1
I have an intermittent miss on this 99 F350 7.3 Diesel unless I am hammering it up a long grade at high rpm's. Then I can get repetitive misses.

Intermittent miss occurs about 2 times per hour just for an instant.

Slightly dusted engine with good compression 375-400 (cranking and corrected for altitude).

Glowplugs ...Good
GPR... Good
Checked resistance from IDM to injectors ...Good

History of some ether for starting before I got my hands on it.

KOEO codes present

P1210
p0470
P0340

I have AE with the ford enhancement. But I am new to working on a powerstroke and new to AE. I would appreciate any help. Just gonna start this and update it as I go along.

I have changed the ICP sensor and will be doing a KOEO as soon as it stops snowing to see if the P1210 goes away.

All comments appreciated.
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1999 7.3 Diesel in a 2003 F350 4x4 Cab&Chassis Crewcab frame with a single cab. Majestic 23P Motorhome.
 

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nothing pertaining to the HPOP (aside from it coming apart internally), including the ICP sensor can cause an misfire.

If the misfire gets worse with extended duration, and higher rpm...then I would look at your fuel system.

http://swampsdiesel.com/site/how_to_pdf/pdf/fuel_pressure.pdf

also..noting that your truck is a cab & chassis...I'd almost bet on it.

The C&C trucks with the rear (of axle) steel tank, have a known issue with the tank delaminating, and obstructing the flow of fuel.

Once the fuel system is cleaned (blow out lines, incl those to cyl heads), tank removed/replaced as necessary...recheck pressure.

if the misfire persists, the injector (plungers) are most likely damaged internally from lack of lubricity.

We install the polyethylene Titan tanks on all C&C trucks that have had tank delamination.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I have replaced the ICP with a borgwarner unit.

KOEO: P1210(icp) and P0340(cps) are now gone.
P0470(ebp sensor) is still present.

Thank you swamp for the reply.

I am familiar with the metal tank delam issue.
This engine was swapped from an f250 with the poly tank. My fuel delivery system including 40gal rear of axle tank has been disassembled, cleaned and reassembled. I have also installed a clear fuel filter before the fuel pump.

I will measure fuel pressure in the way you described and post the results.

Thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
If my fuel pressure is good. What tests can I do to check the injectors? Or what other tests should I do in general?
 

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I have replaced the ICP with a borgwarner unit.

KOEO: P1210(icp) and P0340(cps) are now gone.
P0470(ebp sensor) is still present.

Thank you swamp for the reply.

I am familiar with the metal tank delam issue.
This engine was swapped from an f250 with the poly tank. My fuel delivery system including 40gal rear of axle tank has been disassembled, cleaned and reassembled. I have also installed a clear fuel filter before the fuel pump.

I will measure fuel pressure in the way you described and post the results.

Thank you.
pumps like to pump (push)...they do not like to suck...particularly through a 1/4" fuel line....and a ? micron filter on the suction side.

To run a pre-pump filter, you'll need to install larger diameter fuel (suction side) lines, as well as increase the pickup tube diameter in the tank.

If fuel pressure checks out, then all you can do is rule OUT the other variables on that/those cylinder(s) that are misfiring...fuel quality (gas/water), engine compression, rocker arm mvt, pushrod(bent?) leak down test, etc..

but there is not a definitive 'injector' test, other than an inj buzz test, which merely confirms electrical continuity to/from the injs & IDM.

here are more detailed diagnostics, pertaining to the engine & injectors:

http://swampsdiesel.com/files/7.3LInjectorDiagnostic.pdf
 

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You could always test the resistance of the injectors.

The 9-pin plug is wired as follows:

G G I I C I I G G

G=Glow Plug +
I = Injector +
C= Injector Common

The injectors fire with a 115VDC signal from the IDM. Do Not pierce the wires to test.

Test between "I" and "C" to test the injectors, should be less than 5.0 Ohms.

To check glow plugs Test between "G" and battery ground. Should be between 0.6 and 2.0 Ohms
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you Rowe for your reply.
I did check the resistance of all the injectors at the idm connector to ground and they checked out in specs.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thank you Swap for the link.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Btw....156,000mi on the odometer.

Installed a new EBP sensor
No KOEO codes present
Installed a pressure gauge to the drivers side upper port on my fuel bowl:
60 psi at idle
55 psi at WOT 2500-3000 rpms

Truck still misses (semi-intermittently) at higher rpm with a load.
Rechecked codes KOEO: None present

How should I proceed?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
If fuel pressure checks out, then all you can do is rule OUT the other variables on that/those cylinder(s) that are misfiring...fuel quality (gas/water), engine compression, rocker arm mvt, pushrod(bent?) leak down test, etc..

but there is not a definitive 'injector' test, other than an inj buzz test, which merely confirms electrical continuity to/from the injs & IDM.

I visually inspected valve movement while running (idle).
Engine compression is good.
Torque values on rocker arms bolts and injector holds are good.
Fuel quality isnt an issure since this problem has remained for 5 tanks of fuel.

I will do a cct and buzz test this weekend.
I could pull all my pushrods and check them for straight.

I dont think a leak down test is necessary since compression(cranking) was good and rose consistently for all cylinders when I added a tablespoon of oil.

Would it be accurate to use Autoenginuity to test the HPOP?

How about performing running compression test? Any thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Also this truck is not putting the power to the ground yet. I know it can produce more power because I have felt it do it. I changed the cps a while back and she really woke up going up a hill for a couple of seconds and then the engine light came on and back to reduced power. CPS is a borg warner. But that was last year. Right now she dosent really pull hard.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I used TorquePro to get these figures.
As per swamps instructions:
HPOP stabilized pressure is 2750 @ 40% duty cycle
I will test again with AE.
 

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Btw....156,000mi on the odometer.

Installed a new EBP sensor
No KOEO codes present
Installed a pressure gauge to the drivers side upper port on my fuel bowl:
60 psi at idle
55 psi at WOT 2500-3000 rpms

Truck still misses (semi-intermittently) at higher rpm with a load.
Rechecked codes KOEO: None present

How should I proceed?
was this WOT test actually driving? or just revving in park or neutral?

if the fuel pressure test wasn't performed during a loaded, extended WOT run (full boost, full pedal, up a hill, hottest chip tune, etc)..then repeat the test actually driving the truck.

with no load (no boost), the PCM is not going to command any, appreciable amount of, fuel from the injectors...regardless of how high you rev it.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I used TorquePro to get these figures.
~~~~~~~~~~~~>As per swamps instructions:<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
HPOP stabilized pressure is 2750 @ 40% duty cycle
55 psi fuel pressure.

I will test again with AE.

Yes this test was performed under load 60-90 mph just as you described in your instructions. But I will try it again with AE. Which gear do you suggest 5th or 6th. Manuel trans of course. I performed it in 5th. I have no chip engine is stock. I believe that I need to get this engine running correctly before any modifications are to be done.

Sorry swap but the fuel pressure is good.

I too do feel that I am not getting the fuel that I need into the cylinders.


I did read on another forum that this high miss could be caused by a cracked injector cup and another had the same symptoms that cleared up with the use of the black oem ford cps as opposed to the borg warner cps. Hmm... I am using the borg warner cps. Maybe is should try a factory cps? This will be the 3rd cps that I have bought. First two were borgs warners.

Thanks for your help guys. I am going to find something that does not jive. And then I will fix it and it will run great even if I have to throw in a rebuilt engine with rebuild heads and injectors!

I have only ever had one engine beat me and I am not going to make it two.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Did the buzz test when cold....
All injectors sounded the same when tested individually.

Did a cct when not completely warm:
P0266
p0272

Repeated the test at normal operating temperature:
P0266

Thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Checked poppet armature plate clearances: all inbetween .002 and .003
Checked coil resistances : all between 2.8-3.0 ohms
Checked all pushrods : all straight
Checked all poppet screws : all tight
 

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Checked poppet armature plate clearances: all inbetween .002 and .003
Checked coil resistances : all between 2.8-3.0 ohms
Checked all pushrods : all straight
Checked all poppet screws : all tight
good.

looks like you've ruled out oil clearance issues. I'd check the fuel sides for damage.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thank you swap for the help. I dont mean to sound ignorant. But what and how to I check the fuel side for damage?

I would like to do a running compression check like diesel ron did here:


Since my truck has low miles and a slightly dusted turbo. Similar to his symptoms.

I do not know if I should disable the fuel injector on the cylinder being tested.
In the video it looks and sounds like his injector on the cylinder being tested is operating. I have tried to contact him about the procedure to no avail.

Does anyone know the correct procedure for a running compression test?

I am seriously considering having my injectors rebuilt just to see if it clears up the problem.
 

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Sounds very similar to what I had. While I can't say for certain, I believe it was my ICP harness. My truck had a once every 1.5 hour stumble/misfire for months. I did all the obvious things like change the CPS, check and clean the IPR, fuel filter, etc. Then one day I noticed the ICP wiring mashed down hard at the sensor; probably from the big foam cushion that I use when working on the truck. I striaghtend the wires wires and it hasn't done it since. Of course I'm an moron for not changing the pigtail yet, but I will soon.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks berg for the reply.

Well, the miss has gone away on the last test drive. She is finally blowing some black smoke out of the exhaust when she is pulling. Cranking time has also shortened. The sad part is I never found a problem. It makes me think electrical.

The second thing is that right after completing another CCT test with autoenginuity and receiving the same #2 injector out of balance code, she started to idle rough. Never had that happen. After a little full throttle test drive which had satisfactory power and no miss she idled normally.

So this has me leaning to a bad number 2 injector. If the problem comes back and persists I am going to replace all of my injectors.

What do you all think?
 
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