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Discussion Starter #2
I have read 10-12 other threads on this subject. I am concerned about this poor mileage because I have two friends with Dodge 3500 duallie 4x4s that are getting 16-18 mpg pulling 8000-9000 pound campers (I know this because I split the fuel with them on several trips this past summer. One time we got 19 mpg on the exact same trip I took this week, his truck was chipped).

I normally get 14 mpg driving a mix of city, country, highways.

I just finished at 600+ mile trip from Ohio to Maryland and back. I was towing a #3500 +/- 7'x16' v-nosed cargo trailer.

Oil has 2000 miles on it, EBPV unplugged, seafoam thorugh fuel system, fuel bowl o-ring rebuild, run Diesel Kleen in fuel all the time.

Stock gearing/tires. Up-pipes and firewall show no sign of soot or leaking. All of the connections on the intake pipes are secure. Have reached up to 20psi of boost under load but usally around 17-18 psi.

68 mph with cruise control: 9.5 mpg OH to MD
65-70 mph with foot on pedal 11.5 mpg MD to OH

I have a problem that was talked about in the thread linked below where it seems like the wastegate is staying open after it releases.
As I am pulling up a hill, I can start to hear an "air-leaking" sound on the drivers side under the hood and the truck starts to lose speed (same side as cold air intake). If I stab the throttle to cause a downshift (up to 3200 rpm), the truck speeds up, the air-rushing noise is gone, and we truck up the hill. When the truck upshifts to high gear, the wate gate releases. If I keep my foot in the throttle, I can keep the air-rushing noise going, and start the whole process all over again.

I got 2 more mpg by causing the truck to downshift every time I heard the air-leaking noise.
Someone told me that I could not hear the wastegate opening, but I can hear something release pressure when I chop the throttle under speed, or when the truck upshift under load.

Could the wastegate stay open letting out all of the boost?

What else could cause this poor gas mileage?

I am ready to sell this pig if it's not an easy fix.
 

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High Plains Powerstroke
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could be a boot leaking, check all of them and make sure the clamps are tight and no tears. Also, cruise control is not the best idea to get the best mileage. Cruise control cannot anticpate hills or know where the best areas to coast. Cruise control is a convienence and not a MPG gaining option.

The odds of you getting the same MPG's as a dodge are low. MPG's a dodge gets over a ford calculated over the life of the truck doesn't provide enough savings to me. The higher insurance rating on dodges will nearly offset the MPG's difference alone.

I had to find the sweet spot on my truck. 65 and less has never netted me better MPG's 68-72 are my sweet spot. I am glad the troopers in WY give you 5 over the speed limit for free!
 

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Discussion Starter #4

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Lovin Life...
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Turbo is surging. Common problem with stock turbos. 38r is best all around solution at cheapest price point. There are other options, ported housings and different wheels for the stock turbo, but they are just band-aids for the issue. The 38r will preform dramatically better under all situations.

FWIW, I have same exact type of trailer, with north of 500 hp, and get 14 mpg or so loaded with my lead foot. Single turbo, modded H2e, which moves slightly more cfm than the 38r.

On edit, ROFLMAO at that link in the OP. The answer is there, multiple times LOL LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #6
If the surge is fixed, will it help raise the mpg? Is is there something else lowering the mpg, or is the surge killing it all by itself?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I had to find the sweet spot on my truck. 65 and less has never netted me better MPG's 68-72 are my sweet spot. I am glad the troopers in WY give you 5 over the speed limit for free!

Which tune gives you the best mpg? 60t, 80t or other?
 

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Lovin Life...
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If the surge is fixed, will it help raise the mpg? Is is there something else lowering the mpg, or is the surge killing it all by itself?
There are a lot of variables at play, but yes. When the turbo is surging, the motor is getting inconsistent superheated air. This is a bad thing on multiple fronts. Tuning also is key in controlling surge.

Many much more experienced than I can speak much better. I can expand later on the computer if no one else has done so. Big posts suck on a phone.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hard to believe, but I'm not looking for more power. I don't want to upgrade exhausts or injectors or anything like that. I chased a 94 Camaro around for years to go as fast as I could and......now I'm not after that. I work on 2-3 MX bikes for my son and I don't have the time or money to put into a tow vehicle.

Would a wicked wheel stop the surge?

How about a wicked wheel and a better tune? I want 14 mpg towing or I'm moving on to another platform.

Would that restore the mileage I'm looking for?
 

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Village Idiot
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I would do a walker btm muffler, cheap give you 80% bennifits of a 4" system, lower egts etc...add a wicked wheel and some decent tunes 14 should be do-able
 

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Lovin Life...
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Would a wicked wheel stop the surge?

How about a wicked wheel and a better tune? I want 14 mpg towing or I'm moving on to another platform.

Would that restore the mileage I'm looking for?
A WW is simply the OBS style wheel. It may help stop surge on occasion, but it is not capable moving as much air as the SD wheel, so it's actually a step backwards. A ported housing has shown to resolve the issue most of the time, but now we've spent over half of what one can find a used 38r for.

Tuning really is critical. I have seen time and again, myself included, where someone has fought surging and by simply changing or adjusting their tunes the issue was resolved. Back in the day I had a Bullydog chip. That thing would cause surge even with a ported housing (been there done that :doh:) when the engine got put under real load, ie going up a large hill. Same truck, no changes other than quality tunes, no surge at all.

Getting back to the MPG issue, it really is a somewhat complex equation given the nature of our trucks. With the mileage that is most likely on your truck, injector "o" rings are a concern. Had a buddy here recently finally give in and replace his, and low and behold it smoothed his idle way up, and he gained 1.6 mpg avg on his next 3 tanks. The health of you HPOP will also be a strong factor in the mileage you get. If the injectors don't have the oil to fire correctly for the needs at that moment, the motor won't be able to effectively make power.
 

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Village Idiot
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To call a spade a spade the dodge will get better milage.
I doubt with no or minimal mods you will get much over 15 towing.
Just my opinion,
 

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Discussion Starter #13
What about taking out the muffler and putting in a piece of pipe? Is that really loud? I can get the BTM at summit racing for $54.00 and change. Is that cheaper than a piece of pipe?

What mpg gains can I get for the BTM?
 

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super tuner
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sorry off topic, but what class does your son race? im an amateur rider myself. if you want the best possible fuel mileage gains you will need to run a straight-piped exhaust system, this will work with the CAI and benefit your fuel mileage.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Happy thanksgiving!

He races 85cc 9-11 yr, 85cc 9-13 yr and Supermini. We just raced Budds Creek in Md last week. He won in 9-11 yr and finished 3rd in 9-13 (big wheel allowed).

What class do you ride?


By straight piped do you mean the BTM muffler, or a whole new exhaust system?

If a whole new system, what kind?


Here's a short clip of my son at Western Reserve MC club in Salem, OH. Now that I have to start bragging....lol. there's others like the Budds Creek holeshot or the WRMC jump over GoPro if you serach youtube for "ODIEMAN1010"........Oh no, can't stop......

 

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Discussion Starter #16
Which will give biggest mpg gains per dollar spent


Walker BTM muffler $60
Search Results for 21470 - SummitRacing.com



Summit 4" Turbo back system $300
Summit Racing SUM-680002 - Summit Racing Aluminized Diesel Exhaust Systems - Overview - SummitRacing.com


Summit 5" Turbo back system $400
Summit Racing SUM-680008 - Summit Racing Aluminized Diesel Exhaust Systems - Overview - SummitRacing.com


I'm all stock and not planning on upgrading turbos or injectors, so I'm guessing it's one of the top two. Correct?
 

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Riffraff also has the MBRP 4in turbo back for 299 and free shipping. Thats what im running and it's quiet. Some say that going to a larger down pipe will cause more surge. Mine surge's pretty bad. Hoping to go to a 38r in the spring.
 

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Village Idiot
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I would do the walker btm, and ww from dieselsite or similar.
The ww should stomp out surge and keep your truck in the right rpm when towing.
You can also pickup a 8-12 oz bottle of 2stroke walmart generic brand oil- it will say ashless somewhere but it is the blue bottle dump that in the tank on a fill up and see if you dont pick up 1mpg or so.Make sure you have no boost leaks and clean the ebvp line .
There is a thread with a video on here for that.
 

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super tuner
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i was racing 250 youth B, 250B and 450B but i just got a 450 so i will be stuck racing only 450C in the first half of next season...but i am ok with that because 6 moto's a day beats the living hell outta ya. Congrats to your son though! sounds like he could go somewhere and he definitely has good form. but back to the topic at hand, you will see the best MPG gain with a 4 inch turbo back exhaust system, but your truck will have a louder turbo whistle and have a deeper throatier tone, not necessarily louder. sure as hell not as loud as a 450A morning moto gate-drop, lol
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Whew... that 450C class looks like fun. It usually has a really big gate wherever we go. Enjoy it. Thanks for the compliment. We're just part time racers, 20 races a year and practice about once a week.

I think I'm gonna go with baby steps here with the truck.

1) I picked up all the parts for a boost leak detector, so I'll build that today and test the intake system for leaks

2) I'll test each of the following steps with a half-tank of fuel:

I'm going to put on the BTM tomorrow and see what that does. ($75)
I ordered a kit to clean the air filter - that's next. ($19)
Then I'll try the 2-stroke oil. ($6)
Then I'll change fuel filter (which seemed clean when I rebuilt the bowl last month) ($25).

That should take me about 3-4 weeks to test and around $125.


3) Then it's between a tune and the wicked wheel (tune seems like a lot less work and may get rid of some or most of the surge).


Does that sound reasonable? Any other thoughts or suggestions?
 
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