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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is not your typical crank no start but maybe someone has ran across this issue before. Thanks for any help or advice in advance. We have a customer says he drove the truck to us (parked next door outside of cameras view I checked) and it had a no start hot and also high eot temps. We attempted to start the truck (cold) and couldn’t get above 235psi. Towed it in. Air test, found bad oring on standpipe. Replaced (OEM). Pulled oil cooler and replaced with OEM. Cleaned everything up, went back together. Crank no start. Building 1200+ psi ICP now. IPR drops down to 40-50% after it builds 1200 psi. You can hear what sounds like the injectors dry firing after the icp reaches above 500psi. Sounds like no fuel or air in the fuel. No codes. ICPV is good. FICM main logic and vehicle voltages are all 12v and 48v. (KOEO and KOEC) Charged batteries. Vref is 5v. EBP sensor was reading 15.9 instead of 14.9 it was replaced, now reading 14.9. Map and baro are 14.9 also. FPW is good. CKP/CMP sync is good. FICM sync is good. All injectors buzz. Little white smoke while cranking but not much. I’ve pulled another running/driving 06 6.0 in next to it with similar features. Swapped PCM, FICM, FICM relay, and icp sensor. Customer stated he pulled the engine harness off the truck the night before and went through the whole harness taping everything up and changing bad pigtails. I noticed he took the foil off the ckp and cmp sensor wiring. We ended up replacing the entire engine harness. Still nothing. I hate starting fluid but I let the glowplugs warm up and cool down before I cranked it over and gave it a shot, it won’t even try to pop off. All ground have been taken off and cleaned both sides and put back on tight. The fuel system, no bubbles in the filter housing while filling. Overflows with fuel fast, cracked lines loose at both heads to purge air out and holds 60-65psi. It has a new turbo cranked with intercooler pipes on and off. Unplugged each 5v ref circuit individually. Unplugged the alternator, nothing. So all the numbers look right to me. I have a snap on scanner, AE and autel 908CV. Overall, what is strange to me is after cranking on it, (KOEO) the ICP holds around 80-100psi and the voltage correlates. So I pulled the icp sensor to verify pressure and sure enough it’s holding pressure. (Passenger side) I’ve even pulled the Allen plug out of the drivers side rail and it also has pressure on it. I’ve never seen them hold pressure like that but I also don’t know if that’s something to do with it not starting. Customer states he took the icp sensor out and replaced with a factory sensor and it had pressure on it then also. I can usually turn a truck off and watch the pressure steadily drop to almost 0 pretty quick. This one will hold 100psi for hours. Oil and oil filter replaced also. I’m stumped. Any ideas?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Bismic, there’s probably more testing I forgot to mention but yes cranking bubble test using bypass wire no bubbles whatsoever.

fuel pressure is at 60-65psi KOEO and doesn’t drop cranking. When I cracked the banjo loose at the heads there’s no air either.

cranking I am getting mass fuel desired (about 35-42mg) and injector timing is 7.2*

so the cranking rpm’s are slower than normal but during a cranking cycle i can get 150-170 rpm so I would assume it should be sufficient.
 

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If it doesn't start with starter fluid, then you are lacking compression or air. Not really any other factor IMO.

Maybe try starting with the downpipe disconnected. Try to verify that the CAT is not plugged up.

Only other thing I can think of ATM is to then do a manual compression test on each cylinder.

Maybe you could post a video (with sound) of it cranking in an attempted start.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I will pull the downpipe and see if it makes a difference. It’s throwing me for a loop that the customer says he drove it here and I’ve yet to even get it to make any attempt to start. Not a single sign that it wants to fire just spinning over like I’m cranking with the key off using the bypass wire.
I can do a manual compression test, I haven’t yet for the fact that the motor spins over pretty even. I have a truck here with low compression, you can hear it spinning over, 150psi on cylinder 1, it still cranks and runs great lol. Anyway, I will take a video of the truck cranking over. The rpm’s seem borderline pass and the high pressure oil system holding oil pressure are two things that are off to me. I just know this is going to be some stupid little problem I’m overlooking.
 

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Ford stated in one of their training documents that fuel would not feed forward if the Secondary Fuel Filter was not installed, or if it was installed incorrectly, or if it was damaged. You might check on that, and make sure it isn't an aftermarket filter.

That said, your issue sounds different since even starting fluid could not get it to start.

I keep coming back to wondering about air flow or exhaust gas discharge.
 

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See if air is leaving the tailpipe

The only other reason it won't start is if it's fuel washed and will have 0 compression across the board, which will need a little oil in the cylinders to get it back.
 

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This is not your typical crank no start but maybe someone has ran across this issue before. Thanks for any help or advice in advance. We have a customer says he drove the truck to us (parked next door outside of cameras view I checked) and it had a no start hot and also high eot temps. We attempted to start the truck (cold) and couldn’t get above 235psi. Towed it in. Air test, found bad oring on standpipe. Replaced (OEM). Pulled oil cooler and replaced with OEM. Cleaned everything up, went back together. Crank no start. Building 1200+ psi ICP now. IPR drops down to 40-50% after it builds 1200 psi. You can hear what sounds like the injectors dry firing after the icp reaches above 500psi. Sounds like no fuel or air in the fuel. No codes. ICPV is good. FICM main logic and vehicle voltages are all 12v and 48v. (KOEO and KOEC) Charged batteries. Vref is 5v. EBP sensor was reading 15.9 instead of 14.9 it was replaced, now reading 14.9. Map and baro are 14.9 also. FPW is good. CKP/CMP sync is good. FICM sync is good. All injectors buzz. Little white smoke while cranking but not much. I’ve pulled another running/driving 06 6.0 in next to it with similar features. Swapped PCM, FICM, FICM relay, and icp sensor. Customer stated he pulled the engine harness off the truck the night before and went through the whole harness taping everything up and changing bad pigtails. I noticed he took the foil off the ckp and cmp sensor wiring. We ended up replacing the entire engine harness. Still nothing. I hate starting fluid but I let the glowplugs warm up and cool down before I cranked it over and gave it a shot, it won’t even try to pop off. All ground have been taken off and cleaned both sides and put back on tight. The fuel system, no bubbles in the filter housing while filling. Overflows with fuel fast, cracked lines loose at both heads to purge air out and holds 60-65psi. It has a new turbo cranked with intercooler pipes on and off. Unplugged each 5v ref circuit individually. Unplugged the alternator, nothing. So all the numbers look right to me. I have a snap on scanner, AE and autel 908CV. Overall, what is strange to me is after cranking on it, (KOEO) the ICP holds around 80-100psi and the voltage correlates. So I pulled the icp sensor to verify pressure and sure enough it’s holding pressure. (Passenger side) I’ve even pulled the Allen plug out of the drivers side rail and it also has pressure on it. I’ve never seen them hold pressure like that but I also don’t know if that’s something to do with it not starting. Customer states he took the icp sensor out and replaced with a factory sensor and it had pressure on it then also. I can usually turn a truck off and watch the pressure steadily drop to almost 0 pretty quick. This one will hold 100psi for hours. Oil and oil filter replaced also. I’m stumped. Any ideas?
Bismic's advice is spot on. Keep this simple. It's a diesel. If it has compression (air in/air out) and fuel, it will run. You either have a low compression situation/blocked exhaust or it didn't get a large enough snort of ether. Ether and glow plugs are a bad combo so be careful there. Theoretically you could pull all the wiring, pcm, ficm out and it should still start with a fuel source. Won't run long but it should light up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I’m trying to figure out how to upload a video on here but I have a video of it cranking, you can hear the injectors sound like they are dry firing after icp reaches 500+ psi, I also have a video of the tailpipe you can see the white smoke. I’m pretty stumped still I guess I’ll pull the glowplugs and do a compression test it just doesn’t make sense that the guy drove the truck here (here say) and it ran great. (Again, it needed an oil cooler and no start hot) I also didn’t drop the downpipe, as I’m getting white smoke/air out of the tailpipe cranking and there is no cat/muffler. The truck has a full straight pipe exhaust.
 

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Bismic's advice is spot on. Keep this simple. It's a diesel. If it has compression (air in/air out) and fuel, it will run. You either have a low compression situation/blocked exhaust or it didn't get a large enough snort of ether. Ether and glow plugs are a bad combo so be careful there. Theoretically you could pull all the wiring, pcm, ficm out and it should still start with a fuel source. Won't run long but it should light up.
Good advice, but just remember that if the PCM is out, you have to crank with the starter solenoid wire jumpered to a battery source since the PCM is what activates the starter by grounding the starter relay.
 

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I’m trying to figure out how to upload a video on here but I have a video of it cranking, you can hear the injectors sound like they are dry firing after icp reaches 500+ psi, I also have a video of the tailpipe you can see the white smoke. I’m pretty stumped still I guess I’ll pull the glowplugs and do a compression test it just doesn’t make sense that the guy drove the truck here (here say) and it ran great. (Again, it needed an oil cooler and no start hot) I also didn’t drop the downpipe, as I’m getting white smoke/air out of the tailpipe cranking and there is no cat/muffler. The truck has a full straight pipe exhaust.
Could the turbo be trashed such that insufficent air is provided? Just saw a thread started over on the Org where a guy removed his turbo (after a year of operation on his re-build work), and the compressor blades were junk!

When you get one glow plug out, put a white cloth in the direct path of anything that will be expelled through that glow plug hole when cranking. Then crank with the key and observe. If everything is working you should see some (not a lot) fuel evenly expelled when cranking due to the FICM commanding the injectors. I would disable the glow plugs before starting any of this.

I would start on the drivers side. IMO it is easier.
 

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If the compressor wheel is actually frozen or blocked, and not turning, some air intake certainly does occur, but it may not be sufficient for ignition. Especially if cranking rpms are reduced. Totally agree that it is a long shot!

I do agree that diesels can "draft" their own air, but the compressor wheels are usually turning as air begins to move, and that rotation significantly reduces the restriction of air flow. Wite smoke in the exhaust certainly means there is some air flow, but it is a definite indication of fuel flow (assuming it isn't coolant).

Easy enough to check. I have even seen rags left in unfortunate locations!
 

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I’m trying to figure out how to upload a video on here but I have a video of it cranking, you can hear the injectors sound like they are dry firing after icp reaches 500+ psi, I also have a video of the tailpipe you can see the white smoke. I’m pretty stumped still I guess I’ll pull the glowplugs and do a compression test it just doesn’t make sense that the guy drove the truck here (here say) and it ran great. (Again, it needed an oil cooler and no start hot) I also didn’t drop the downpipe, as I’m getting white smoke/air out of the tailpipe cranking and there is no cat/muffler. The truck has a full straight pipe exhaust.
Please post the videos. We have no way of knowing how much smoke there really is.

Is the EGR system still original (ie not deleted)? If so, does it have an EGR throttle plate?

SOMETIMES, a stuck open EGR valve can cause a no-start with some white exhaust smoke. A way to troubleshoot that is to remove it, make sure it is clean and closed, and then re-install it (leaving it unplugged). Then see if starting is any different.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks for all the advice, I will post back no matter what when I find the death of this truck or get it running lol. The turbo is new (few months old) the wheel spins freely and spins while cranking, I’m also getting air / white smoke out of the tailpipe. Compression test next, I’ll post back if there’s issues but that would really throw me for a loop, being that it spins over evenly and the guy says he drove it here. I don’t have ids to do a relative compression test so I’ll be pulling glowplugs. One guy mentioned key switch circuit ^ and that sounds pretty accurate lol almost if the key is off and you’re just cranking and cranking
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·

August 27, 2022

Let me know if these two links work. I uploaded the videos to YouTube that’s the only way I could figure out how to do it. You can hear the injectors “dry firing” in both videos and that’s when icp reaches 500+ psi and builds to around 1200+ psi pretty quick after that and IPR % starts to drop back down. Turbo is not restricted, wheel spins freely, spins while cranking, I’ve cranked with intercooler pipes on/off no change. I will do a compression test on it Tomorrow I haven’t gotten that done yet. EGR cooler/valve is gone and has a block off plate for the valve. I have had my fair share with ether and I gave it the juice. It should have popped off for sure.
 

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Weak batteries and it does gallop a bit, before you do a compression test a easy free test is plug it in for 4 hours and have a really good battery charger on it and get that thing to really turn over.

Have you ever checked the cranking rpm?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Batteries are not brand new but they both test good and we’re both slow charged to full. Starter looks new. I thought the same thing so I put a hot set of batteries in. Rpm’s I have seen it at 170 but it’s usually around 150
 
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