Ford Power Stroke Nation banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey new on here. Kind of at my wits end with this project. Had a 6.0 that the lpop failed so instead of rebuilding the engine i swapped the engine out with a slightly newer model. Both trucks were 04s. Engines were different, old one icp in the rear of the motor, new one in valve cover. Everything went well with the swap, i got the engine harness with the new motor installed, used my old ficm, and pcm. Now what i have is a crank no start no fire issue. I think I need a newer pcm made to control the newer engine. old engine said 2003 on valve cover new one says 2004. I have swapped about everything i can think of and tried about everything i can think of. Scanguage checks out, any ideas at this point would be appreciated
 

·
"resident smarty pants"
Joined
·
4,162 Posts
Personally I think it should still start w/ the early 04 PCM.

A scangauge is a poor code reader.

For $40 or so you can download ForScan Lite to a smartphone and get a good code reader.

Instead of saying everything checks out, please post the values for the required starting parameters.

Cam/Crank sync
FICM sync
Cranking voltage
FICM MPower
FICM LPower
Cranking rpm
Cranking ICP - pressure
Cranking ICP - volts
IPR % duty cycle
Mass Fuel desired
Fuel Pulse Width

Also, please confirm fuel flow to the secondary fuel filter w/ KOEO (and make sure there are no bubbles when the filter bowl fills up).

I assume you are getting oil pressure on the dash gauge?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
So ficm sync is 1
cranking voltage 11.5
ficm mpwr is 47.5 - 48 while cranking
ficm lpwr 11.5 while cranking
cranking rpm is 160-180
icp pressure is 17-1800psi
cranking icp volts is 1.8-2.3
ipr duty cycle is 54-58%
mass fuel is 38.1 while cranking
not sure what u mean as to fuel pulse width
and oil pressure guage goes to normal while cranking

going to check fuel filter air
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
So also with KOEO no injector buzz or fuel pumping....
Only if i cycle key for a coulpe seconds then off to run position do injectors buzz and fuel pumps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
The only thing i can think of is the old pcm is a 3c3a-12a650-bdm (dpu232a) i checked what the one for the new engine was and it is a 4c3a-12a650-atf (dpu252a). what is the big difference in these two pcms and could this b my entire issue.
 

·
"resident smarty pants"
Joined
·
4,162 Posts
Fuel Injector Pulse Width (microseconds)
TXD: 07E0221410
RXF: 046205140610
RXD: 3010
MTH: 000800010000
NAM: FPW

It is the specific command that the FICM sends to each injector.

Do you have a "KNOWN good" FICM to try? FICM voltage and the buzz test are good, but they do not tell the entire story on the FICM functions.

I still think that the ForScan program might pull a code that the Scangauge didn't. Not a sure thing, but IMO worth checking.

Also, I forgot to ask for V-reference voltage (KOEO, and cranking).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
So the vref is 4.99 or so KOEO and while cranking.
The FPW is around 2180 while cranking.
I do not have a "good" ficm to check with but i did install a new logic board in my ficm with no change to situation.
I have a 58v ficm and the FMP only reads 48 or so volts on the scan guage, but the 4th pin in the ficm has 57volts(i checked) and also when i installed new logic board(48V) i only got 40-41v at the fmp on the scan guage.
Hope this helps
 

·
"resident smarty pants"
Joined
·
4,162 Posts
I am unfamiliar with what to expect from a 58V FICM, so I can't help you there. The fact that you have a fuel pulse width signal is a good sign for the FICM working, but not 100% guarantee. 40-41 V FMP with the new logic board is somewhat puzzling to me.

I guess all I can recommend is to get access to a good code reader (as mentioned above).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
So would you say the best option is to contact the ppl where i got the engine and ask them for the ficm and pcm for that engine?
 

·
"resident smarty pants"
Joined
·
4,162 Posts
You could try it. The FICM (as long as it hasn't failed in some way) shouldn't make any difference, they are all interchangeable. I just don't think it is the PCM, but I could certainly be wrong on that.

A mismatched PCM (if it is a problem) will generate codes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
God this sucks.. to me it seems like there is a voltage draw or a wire loose or missing to explain why there is no injector buzz or fuel pumping with koeo until i cycle the key to start for a few split seconds then back to run. At that point the injectors buzz and fuel pumps. So FRUSTRATING!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
So also the wiring harness’ are not identical the old one was a c93 the new one is a c92. I thought the big difference would be just because of the icp being located differently, but upon further inspection they are not the same. 1 extra wire going to the pcm board and one less wire at the round plug i believe it is 8 pin coming from cab firewall or fuse panel. Another possibility?
 

·
"resident smarty pants"
Joined
·
4,162 Posts
Engine harnesses and glow plug harnesses for a 2004 can be difficult to ensure you get the correct one due to the changes. There are actually 3 versions of the 2004 model:

1. 2003 engine. Harness # 3C3Z-12B637-BA (International # 1843797C93)
2. Mid/late 2004 engine (this is identified by a horizontal GPCM orientation and took place on 9/29/03 when the ICP was moved). Harness # 4C3Z-12B637-AA (1844262C93)
3. Late/Late 2004 engine (this took place on Dec 1, 2003, identified by a vertical GPCM orientation). Harness # 4C3Z-12B637-CA (1846377C92)

The glow plug harnesses are different also.

IIRC sometime in 04, an EGR throttle plate was added. It can simply be unplugged on those model years that have it and it should still run ok. That might be the extra wire.
 

·
"resident smarty pants"
Joined
·
4,162 Posts
God this sucks.. to me it seems like there is a voltage draw or a wire loose or missing to explain why there is no injector buzz or fuel pumping with koeo until i cycle the key to start for a few split seconds then back to run. At that point the injectors buzz and fuel pumps. So FRUSTRATING!

I agree that this sounds more like a loose wire or an intermittent open circuit than a PCM issue.

I will say it again, Scangauge is a poor code reader. ForScan Lite might pick up a code that could give you a clue ..... I realize $40 shouldn't be thrown away, but consider it an investment (even if in this case it doesn't provide extra information, it will at some point in the future).
 

·
"resident smarty pants"
Joined
·
4,162 Posts
150 rpm should be enough (bare minimum though) for a start. I agree it would be nice to have more. Interestingly enough the Ford PC/ED manual states 100 rpm for the FICM to initiate the commands to the injectors. Functionally 150+ is needed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
So I got the original Ficm and PCM from the truck the engine came out of. Fixed ground strap from the frame to cab(dont know if that would make the difference). Still got same problem. Injectors are not opening, no smoke while cranking and no injector buzz until i crank truck over for a few seconds and release. No codes found but i can definetly tell ther is a voltage draw somewhere, scan guage will read 12.3 volts KOEO and as soon as i crank it a little bit and everything kicks on it will drop to 11, 10.5, 10, volts. So after the ficm stops injector buzz, fuel pump quits pumping, glow plug light goes off there is still a really bad draw for about 30 seconds, and just like that the cab lights get brighter, and scan guage will read 11.5 or so without really cranking truck.
 

·
"resident smarty pants"
Joined
·
4,162 Posts
The glow plugs stay on longer than the light ..... up to 2 minutes. They are a big electrical draw.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
So thats what i was figuring but i still am tring to figure out why with KOEO before cranking the is no injector buzz. Is it possible its the ficm relay? Also no fuel while cranking because i have no smoke from the tailpipe
 

·
"resident smarty pants"
Joined
·
4,162 Posts
KOEO, the fuel pump should pump.

Sounds like an issue w/ the pump or the circuit.

Another thing that might keep the fuel pump from running is the inertia switch.

Edit ..... and you might see if the fuel pump will run w/ the gear selector in neutral.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top