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He told you...."mostly caused by under boost or air leak in the cac system " Black smoke means the ratio of fuel to air is off from optimum. When you give it WOT if you aren't getting 22+ PSI then something is off. Start off by checking the hose between the MAP sensor and the manifold. Inspect it for cracks, tears, and how well it seals at both ends. Next, check your CAC boots and tubes. If everything looks fine and you're still not getting 22+ PSI check out your EBP sensor....exhaust back pressure. It's on the driver's side valve cover right next to the oil dipstick. Your '03 originally came programmed to use it, though a change in programming may have deleted its function. Anyway, the computer used the pressure from that sensor to determine the amount of boost needed. The tube, and sometimes sensor, often get gunked up. I would first make sure it's working right by checking its PID with KOEO to see what it reports. It should show either zero or approximately 14 PSI depending on what tool you're using (14.7 is atmosphere at sea level). If it doesn't read fine, replace it. And whether you replace it or not, you should remove the old one, clean it out well, and clean the tube by using some weed whacker string. You just kinda push it down into the manifold, knocking whatever is clogging it into the manifold as well. Some people have needed to use a solvent to get the crud out.

So, if the tube to the MAP sensor is good, CAC boots are good, EBP is good, then really the last step would be to clean the turbo. It's actually fairly easy.

There are other possibilities, but these are the most common.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
i rebuild my turbo changed bearings unision ring and veins. as well as the actuator piston orings snaps rings solenoid o-rings.
new cac pipes and boots air filter. no leaks in intake unless down in the manifold which i replaced all those gaskets when i did the oil cooler a about 8 months ago.
im not really that worried about the black smoke because its very minimal and only when really getting on it.
my biggest concern is the contribution code.
do you think the ebp sensor could throw a contribution code?
i have been meaning to clean that out just havent yet because i wasnt thinking it would contribute to the codes im getting though i could be wrong.
why i dont think its causing my code is because of the fact the code sticks to one cylinder untill a known good injector is put in (which also why im ruling out compression). the main frustration is ive already gotten a new injector that wasnt working correctly. i am just making sure if there is any other factor that can cause new injectors to fail other than fuel pressure and oil at this point.
 

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Ahhhh, ok. If you're not too worried about the smoke then I'm not. lol I had a bit of black smoke for a while at one point too and it actually cleared up on its own somehow....never did figure it out.

So, on the contribution code, several good points have already been made, and I'm sure you've probably googled and found everything there is, but if you're just wanting to know what else could cause a fuel injector to fail I think we can help...and I think you probably know them all.

First and foremost, low fuel pressure, but it's not going to happen all at once if pressure drops to 40 PSI for a few seconds. This is gradual and takes time....unless they are cycled repeatedly with zero fuel in them.

Next, crappy fuel, fuel with water in it, or dirty fuel. Our filters are pretty good and get down to 4 microns as well as keeping water out with the membrane over the lower filter, but they aren't perfect, and they can't compensate for crap fuel. If there were other contaminants in the fuel, algae, gel, etc, it could definitely take out an injector. And it wouldn't necessarily take out more than one. That one chunk of contaminant could, in theory, pass by everything else and make its way to your #4 (I think that's the one we're talking about?) injector. Here's the kicker though. Poor fuel, contaminants, etc might not affect an OEM injector anywhere near as much as they would an off-brand injector. OEM, and some of the high quality aftermarket, use the "diamond-like" coating on the plungers, but others don't so they're far more susceptible to damage.

Also a possibility is electrical. Assuming the injector is 100% functional electrically, the things you need to consider are the harness and the FICM. The harness could short, break, or even only have a single strand of a wire still attached. That single wire shows you full continuity when you test it with a meter, but when you run 48 volts and 20 amps through it, it just can't do the job and the injector doesn't work properly. That one's tough to diagnose....can be done by connecting meter at both ends, removing all casing and insulation, then flexing/stretching/compressing each wire over its entire length. Not likely, but possible. The other culprit in this area is the FICM of course. We all know low voltage can kill an injector. Over voltage can as well, so definitely keep an eye on that.

Last, but not least, is human error. Was it installed correctly? injector bore checked for burrs which might tear an o-ring? Torqued to proper amount? Top o-ring not damaged when you put oil rail on? You get the idea.

There are other things as well which can be a cause, such as manufacturing defects (which actually happen far more often than you would think), particulate matter in the oil which gets into the injector, etc, but you can't account for everything unfortunately. You say you've swapped a known good injector into that spot and everything functioned fine. Does that mean you moved the suspect injector to a different spot and the contribution code followed it to that cylinder? If so, when you bought the next new injector did you put it in the place of the bad injector after the swap or back into the original position you got the code in? Hope that made sense. lol
 
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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
lot of info there! thank you
so what happened was i had a known bad injector on cylinder 4 failed the fuel bubble test.
i changed all injectors on that side of the engine.
after start i got a contribution code for cylinder 6.
which made me think that i possibly had an electrical issue (mainly because the connector to the ficm was broken and happened to be the connector that controlled cylinder 6)
so i replaced the injector harness which didnt fix the cylinder 6 contribution code (new injector)
i pulled the high pressure check valve in the oil rail and cleared it out with a torch cleaner just to make sure it was gunked up. which didnt work still cylinder 6.
i thought maybe its a fualty (new) injector so i took it out and back to the place i bought it. told them everything i did and so they just swapped it out and gave me another new one (no charge). i wish they wouldve flow tested it and let me know how it did.
anyway that got rid of that contribution code.
a few days later i got contribution code on cylinder 1 (the side i didnt touch)
so i ended up changing that whole side.
now i have cylinder 5. which on the same side as cylinder 1 and new.
i really think its another faulty (new) injector. im just sick of getting into this thing especially the passenger side.lol
and curious of the little fixes people have had work for them.
also i never moved a suspect fualty injector to see if it follows mainly because i didnt have replacement crush rings.
didnt want to throw it together just to get back into it. honestly seems like a good idea.
i think im gonna pull the 5 injector and get it changed out if i get another code ill try moving it to see if it follows.
the injectors are from industrial injection they have upgraded spool valves and are stock oem quality. remans but i cant even find an injector that's not a reman.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
sorry,
and as far as install i used a camera to check the bores.
wrapped a lintfree kimwipe around a raq and screw driver just to wipe the bore out.
thin layer of oil on orings slowly wrenched down holder untill seated and torqued
dabbed oil on top orings where oil rail sits and torqed the rail down
im pretty sure install was correct but things happen so i cant rule that out.
24ftlbs on injectors and i dont remember the oil rail somewhere between 8-12 ftlbs
was gentile on the oil rail and getting the cups lined up with the top of the injectors
air to bolt holes to get oil out
 

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Wow, that's a lot you've gone through on this! Regarding reman injectors, there are no more new ones. You can only buy remans, even if they're "new" from Ford. I don't know about the quality of Industrial Injection, but I wouldn't think anyone's would be so bad they'd give issues as quickly as you're seeing.

I'm half wondering if there isn't something else we're overlooking. Given all that you've gone through, if it were my truck I would first clear all codes and then run it again to scan for codes, writing them down. Next, I would clear codes and repeat. I would actually do this 3-4 times, just to see if there were any changes. Oh, and I would be certain the truck was at operating temp and fully charged. If everything came up the same, I would try swapping out the FICM with a known good one. You SHOULD have a good injector, and since you swapped out the harness you SHOULD have a good harness. That makes me doubt the FICM.

If you decide to try swapping injectors, you don't have to button it up to do a test run. You actually can run it with the valve covers off and it won't make a huge mess. Sometimes there will be a little oil flying out, but generally I've found it mostly stays in the engine. But yeah, if you swap injectors and the code follows the injector, you know it's the injector. If it does not, then you might just want to check compression....or find a friend with a good FICM to try swapping out.
 
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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
At least these have a 2 year warranty just sucks I might not have skin on my knuckles after getting the valve covers on the passenger side off over and over…. I did put a EBP sensor in today drove a little and seems good so far (as far as the black smoke) I’ll see how it is when I get back home from work tomorrow. Haven’t gotten the contribution code since I cleared it though it took about 8? Days last time so we will see. Just want to make sure it’s cylinder 5 again before I get back into it..
 

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Try removing the engine mount nut on the passenger side and jacking it up a couple inches. Makes getting to those valve cover bolts a lot easier. Personally, I've always also loosened the other motor mount nut and the tranny mount nuts as well, but I was led to believe it can be done without that. Either way, keep us informed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Alright so haven’t got the contribution code back. I do still have black smoke and have gotten a p0404 a couple times I have put a new egr valve in and didn’t do anything. One problem after another 🤦‍♂️. I’m thinking of pulling the turbo and cleaning but I really don’t think it’s the problem cause I just rebuilt it about 10 months ago. New veins and unison ring. The only thing I didn’t change during rebuild was the vgt actuator.. could that be the issue? The symptoms are from a stop and starting off quickly it’s not responsive like it should be and I get black smoke up to the point I have the power I expect?
and when cruising if I let off the pedal and hit it I get black smoke.
Pretty much lagging a bit more than the fuel systems wants so it spits black until it has the air it wants……
ha sorry if that makes no sense
 

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I don't recall....do you have a tune? Also, have you watched the boost to see what it's doing while you take off from a stop?
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
All stock I have an edge tuner only use it to monitor things. Have switched to other tunes on it but it’s very outdated and runs better stock. I get full boost depending on how I drive but I think it’s a little late. I’m going to hook up air to the turbo inlet and check for leaks. If I don’t find any I’ll probly just pull the turbo and check the veins. If that’s good I’m not sure what to do might try the vgt actuator and the oil feed line that goes to it. I do remember when rebuilding the turbo the oring that seals the compressor housing was pretty stupid its to small so I had to stretch it out a little to get it to fit and stay while I put the housing on. Can definitely see it leaking there or the oring being compressed with all the heat maybe just need to recheck the torque on the compressor housing for a better seal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Dam I took another forums word for the size of the turbo inlet and now I have the wrong stuff to pressurize it…. It’s not 3” it’s 4” which I went to Home Depot and the cap I got wasn’t a true 4” so now I’m just going to do it tomorrow lol just an FYI for anyone 2003 f250 6.0 is 4” on compressor inlet
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
So I’ve got a leak from the egr valve gasket…. I can’t even get it to seal I guess I should get another gasket? I just put this egr in
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Just put in new gasket and orings and still bubbling pretty good around the egr valve.
scratching my head when I know where the problem is but can’t fix it could it be the new valve?
 

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Take a look down into the intake and see if there is any carbon residue built up. Any burrs on the metal? I've seen an o-ring remain stuck in the intake so even that's a possibility. Basically, you're looking for anything which might prevent it from seating all the way down. If there's anything there, clean it up, and then vacuum out the hole......you can get creative and basically narrow down your vacuum hose end to the needed size using cardboard and tape....or just duct tape a large straw to the end and seal the hole with tape. lol Either way, just make sure whatever you cleaned off there is sucked out. If your EGR valve is seating flush and the gasket is still leaking, I would suspect there is something wrong with the mating surface....warped, pitted, etc. In that case, you can either try a new EGR valve or do some DIY sealing with black RTV. Of course if you did an EGR cooler delete you wouldn't have to worry about this problem. lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Ohh I know right. I live in Utah so this is weird but they actually run diesel trucks on a dyno when doing emissions. But yah I even thru my old egr valve in with out the orings just the gasket and it still leaks..had brake clean on a rag and cleaned up where the orings seat real well and the top is clean. what do you think about doubling up on the metallic gaskets? Not sure if I want to try rtv with the heat an all. I got pissed off last night and figured I’d try that today.
 

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Ohh I know right. I live in Utah so this is weird but they actually run diesel trucks on a dyno when doing emissions. But yah I even thru my old egr valve in with out the orings just the gasket and it still leaks..had brake clean on a rag and cleaned up where the orings seat real well and the top is clean. what do you think about doubling up on the metallic gaskets? Not sure if I want to try rtv with the heat an all. I got pissed off last night and figured I’d try that today.
Try some of this: J-B Weld 31314 High Temperature RTV Silicone Gasket Maker and Sealant - Red
 

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What did you end up trying? Any luck?
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
The egr valve i got is lifetime warranty. So I got another and it still leaks. Double gasket leaked. I have no soot build up in the engine bay so I’m just going to leave it. Only thing I can think is the port could not be perfecty flat. If I get the code again I’ll use some kind of sealant and see how that does. I have this gasket stuff from work that can handle the heat I just don’t want to use it cause I’m not sure how easy it’ll be to get it out in the future. Right now just waiting, going to be towing the camper next weekend and see how it does. Still no contribution codes I might have got that taken care of still feel like I’m just waiting for that to come back 😂 paranoia?
 
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