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post #1 of 107 (permalink) Old 07-01-2017, 11:14 PM Thread Starter
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Questions?

So, I'm bored and just noticed this section. I thought I'd take a look at it and see what's here. It looks like Powerstroke Racer is the only person posting in here, and he's posting every day. There's nothing wrong with that, but maybe a bit of diversity would do some good. What do you think?

I'm not like Powerstroke Racer. He's clearly one of the many varieties of Christian, and I'm atheist. I also live in southern Louisiana, so I'm immersed in an extremely religious part of the country, in a city that pride's itself on having "faith". Over my life I've heard many crazy things about atheists from various religious groups. Some think we worship the devil. Some think we're horrible immoral people. Some think we can't be trusted. Some think we should be tortured for all of eternity for not belonging to their particular religion. And I'm sure there are others who think things about atheists that I haven't even heard yet. (Don't misunderstand me. Some of my best friends are religious people who think none of those things, so I'm not saying that all religious people think things like that.)

I'm curious as to what questions you may have for a self-proclaimed atheist. I enjoy talking about religion, morality, and all the other topics that inevitably arise from theist/atheist conversations. Do you have any questions that I can answer about atheism or any related topics?
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post #2 of 107 (permalink) Old 07-03-2017, 07:05 PM
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Re: Questions?

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Originally Posted by 08SpartanPSD View Post
So, I'm bored and just noticed this section. I thought I'd take a look at it and see what's here. It looks like Powerstroke Racer is the only person posting in here, and he's posting every day. There's nothing wrong with that, but maybe a bit of diversity would do some good. What do you think?

I'm not like Powerstroke Racer. He's clearly one of the many varieties of Christian, and I'm atheist. I also live in southern Louisiana, so I'm immersed in an extremely religious part of the country, in a city that pride's itself on having "faith". Over my life I've heard many crazy things about atheists from various religious groups. Some think we worship the devil. Some think we're horrible immoral people. Some think we can't be trusted. Some think we should be tortured for all of eternity for not belonging to their particular religion. And I'm sure there are others who think things about atheists that I haven't even heard yet. (Don't misunderstand me. Some of my best friends are religious people who think none of those things, so I'm not saying that all religious people think things like that.)

I'm curious as to what questions you may have for a self-proclaimed atheist. I enjoy talking about religion, morality, and all the other topics that inevitably arise from theist/atheist conversations. Do you have any questions that I can answer about atheism or any related topics?
08Spartan Just an FYI, there is a very specific reason why I post these every day without fail, as I do on 3 other Diesel Forums and FB. While I am a Christian as in I attempt to be “Christ like” I am very careful to use that description as well as the word “religion” as both those words have had their meaning change over the years. I prefer the term Biblicist as I believe what the Bible says in its entirety and rely on the Holy Spirit for guidance and interpretation.

I would like to understand more of the belief in Atheism though?

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post #3 of 107 (permalink) Old 07-05-2017, 05:58 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Questions?

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08Spartan Just an FYI, there is a very specific reason why I post these every day without fail, as I do on 3 other Diesel Forums and FB. While I am a Christian as in I attempt to be “Christ like” I am very careful to use that description as well as the word “religion” as both those words have had their meaning change over the years. I prefer the term Biblicist as I believe what the Bible says in its entirety and rely on the Holy Spirit for guidance and interpretation.
That's totally cool. I don't have an issue with your daily posting at all. Please don't think that I do.

I'm not familiar with the term "Biblicist". At first, I thought you meant that you are a biblical literalist, but then you spoke of interpretation so I guess literalist isn't a good word to describe you. Just to give me an idea of who I'm talking to, please answer a few questions for me. Are you a young Earth, 6 day creationist, or do you interpret Genesis differently? Is the story of Noah and the flood historically accurate, or is it meant to be interpreted as a story about love and dedication to Yahweh or to one's family? Also, Heaven and Hell, or Heaven and annihilation for those undeserving?

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I would like to understand more of the belief in Atheism though?
I know it sounds a bit cliche', but atheism isn't a belief. There's honestly nothing to believe in order to be an atheist. There's only one thing that you can't do as an atheist. You just can't believe that a god exists. Everything else is ok. You can believe in angels, demons, fairies, aliens, afterlives, past lives, reincarnation, and pretty much anything supernatural or otherwise normally associated with religion, except gods. In fact, you can be extremely religious and be atheist. Most Buddhists are atheists, but they are obviously religious and believe in supernatural things.

I'm a full sized guy, so I'm going to give you a food analogy. There are four people at a table for lunch. Bob has a roast beef sandwich and a Coke. Jim has a ham and cheese sandwich and a glass of milk. Al has a Ruben and a beer. Mark just has a glass of iced tea. In this scenario, religion is like sandwiches. Bob's religion is roast beef. Jim's religion is ham and cheese. Al's is Ruben. But Mark doesn't have a sandwich. People who do have a sandwich (belief in a god) are called theists. People like Mark who don't have a sandwich (belief in a god) are not theists. That's all "atheist" means; literally "not theist". It doesn't really make sense to say that Mark has a lack of a sandwich, or that Mark's sandwich is a non sandwich, or other odd wordings like that. Mark just doesn't have a sandwich, so atheists just don't have a belief in a god.

Things like evolution and science and skepticism aren't parts of atheism. It just so happens that those things tend to lead people to atheism, so people who are openly atheist and enthusiastic about it often are skeptics, advocates of the scientific method, and accept evolution. Most of the outspoken atheists on the internet and in real life are people who used to be believers, but have lost that belief probably due to a healthy dose of skepticism.

Did I adequately answer your question, or did I just open up more questions?
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post #4 of 107 (permalink) Old 07-05-2017, 11:31 PM
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Re: Questions?

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That's totally cool. I don't have an issue with your daily posting at all. Please don't think that I do.

I'm not familiar with the term "Biblicist". At first, I thought you meant that you are a biblical literalist, but then you spoke of interpretation so I guess literalist isn't a good word to describe you. Just to give me an idea of who I'm talking to, please answer a few questions for me. Are you a young Earth, 6 day creationist, or do you interpret Genesis differently? Is the story of Noah and the flood historically accurate, or is it meant to be interpreted as a story about love and dedication to Yahweh or to one's family? Also, Heaven and Hell, or Heaven and annihilation for those undeserving?

Let me start by stating that I nor anybody we know is or was alive then to give a first hand account, so you either have to have blind faith that GOD is real and did in fact create the earth or that we evolved from a blob that went bang and he we are, using common sense I would deduce that it takes far more faith to believe that than to believe a greater being did this. Secondly IF we could understand who/what God is then God would not be anything special. Going back Genesis, was it 7 days or 7000 years? is that really relevant to our conversation, simple answer is no since no one can account for what really happened and the time frame that it happened in, and to be honest has no bearing on what I believe now in real time that I can see touch and feel. I have seen/ experienced things in my life that support what the Bible says and is proof enough for me to believe what the Bible says and if it is correct today, then I must believe that is was correct then. But I think it is foolish on anyones part to have an argument or discussion about some thing we know nothing about. The Bible says there is a hell and those NOT in the book of life will be destined to go there.
2 Peter 3:8Common English Bible (CEB)

8 Don’t let it escape your notice, dear friends, that with the Lord a single day is like a thousand years and a thousand years are like a single day.

"A Biblicist, as commonly defined, is someone who uses the Bible—and only the Bible—for his authority and source of knowledge, blindly holding to the Bible to guide him through every situation and inform him on every issue". the link below explains in greater detail.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Biblicist-Biblicism.html

I know it sounds a bit cliche', but atheism isn't a belief. There's honestly nothing to believe in order to be an atheist. There's only one thing that you can't do as an atheist. You just can't believe that a god exists. Everything else is ok. You can believe in angels, demons, fairies, aliens, afterlives, past lives, reincarnation, and pretty much anything supernatural or otherwise normally associated with religion, except gods. In fact, you can be extremely religious and be atheist. Most Buddhists are atheists, but they are obviously religious and believe in supernatural things.

I'm a full sized guy, so I'm going to give you a food analogy. There are four people at a table for lunch. Bob has a roast beef sandwich and a Coke. Jim has a ham and cheese sandwich and a glass of milk. Al has a Ruben and a beer. Mark just has a glass of iced tea. In this scenario, religion is like sandwiches. Bob's religion is roast beef. Jim's religion is ham and cheese. Al's is Ruben. But Mark doesn't have a sandwich. People who do have a sandwich (belief in a god) are called theists. People like Mark who don't have a sandwich (belief in a god) are not theists. That's all "atheist" means; literally "not theist". It doesn't really make sense to say that Mark has a lack of a sandwich, or that Mark's sandwich is a non sandwich, or other odd wordings like that. Mark just doesn't have a sandwich, so atheists just don't have a belief in a god.

Things like evolution and science and skepticism aren't parts of atheism. It just so happens that those things tend to lead people to atheism, so people who are openly atheist and enthusiastic about it often are skeptics, advocates of the scientific method, and accept evolution. Most of the outspoken atheists on the internet and in real life are people who used to be believers, but have lost that belief probably due to a healthy dose of skepticism.

Did I adequately answer your question, or did I just open up more questions?
What I am not clear about is why someone has to proclaim they are an atheist, if in fact there is no God then why make it a point to say That one doesn't believe in God, you said earlier that an atheist can believe in angels or other supernatural beings, how does that differ from believing in an all powerful all mighty supernatural being, after all that is what God is.


How do you think life came to be?
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post #5 of 107 (permalink) Old 07-06-2017, 03:00 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Questions?

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Let me start by stating that I nor anybody we know is or was alive then to give a first hand account, so you either have to have blind faith that GOD is real and did in fact create the earth or that we evolved from a blob that went bang and he we are, using common sense I would deduce that it takes far more faith to believe that than to believe a greater being did this.
The only possibilities aren't 1. God did it or 2. Blobs went bang. There are so many more possibilities than those. We could be in a created universe, but this universe could have been created by advanced aliens. Time may not exist in the way we think of it, and future events and actions could have an impact on the past, leading to the possibility that humans created the universe so that they could exist in it. There are so many other possibilities.

I'd also like to talk about your initial statement. There can be evidence of things. One doesn't need to have witnessed something themselves in order to not have blind faith that something happened. Heck, even when you have first hand accounts, you can't trust that the events happened as described by those first hand accounts. Just look at people who claim to have been abducted by aliens and anally probed. Think about how we solve crimes where there are no witnesses. Dead body in a room. Only one person with access to the room other than the dead guy. That other person has a motive for the crime. That person's fingerprints were in the room and on the knife stuck in the guy's chest. His/her footprints are in the blood around the body. There's blood on the person's clothes, etc. There's actually evidence that shows that the person did the crime. It's not a matter of blind faith.

If it was just a matter of blind faith, then pointing out that atheists have blind faith just like theists doesn't do anything to support the position that a god exists. It would just mean that atheists and theists are both irrational.

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Secondly IF we could understand who/what God is then God would not be anything special. Going back Genesis, was it 7 days or 7000 years? is that really relevant to our conversation, simple answer is no since no one can account for what really happened and the time frame that it happened in, and to be honest has no bearing on what I believe now in real time that I can see touch and feel. I have seen/ experienced things in my life that support what the Bible says and is proof enough for me to believe what the Bible says and if it is correct today, then I must believe that is was correct then. But I think it is foolish on anyones part to have an argument or discussion about some thing we know nothing about. The Bible says there is a hell and those NOT in the book of life will be destined to go there.
2 Peter 3:8Common English Bible (CEB)

8 Don’t let it escape your notice, dear friends, that with the Lord a single day is like a thousand years and a thousand years are like a single day.

"A Biblicist, as commonly defined, is someone who uses the Bible—and only the Bible—for his authority and source of knowledge, blindly holding to the Bible to guide him through every situation and inform him on every issue". the link below explains in greater detail.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Biblicist-Biblicism.html
I'd like to bring your attention to the first statement of this quote: "Secondly IF we could understand who/what God is then God would not be anything special." By that logic, god is nothing special, or you can't understand god. If you can't understand who/what god is, then you can't claim to understand that it exists, or is the creator of the universe, or is a moral compass, or is the god of the bible. It's self contradictory to claim that you can't understand who or what god is, but understand that god is the god of the bible (who god is) and that god is the creator of the universe and the moral compass (what god is).

If you can't understand who/what god is, then you can't claim to understand who/what god is. You yourself said, "I think it is foolish on anyones part to have an argument or discussion about some thing we know nothing about." I agree with that completely. If you can't understand god, then you can't claim to understand it. I don't see how someone can claim that they can't understand who or what something is, but that they believe it exists.

I'll take it from your response, that you see parts of the bible as metaphorical, rather than historical. Thank you for the link about Biblicism. It was informative.

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What I am not clear about is why someone has to proclaim they are an atheist, if in fact there is no God then why make it a point to say That one doesn't believe in God, you said earlier that an atheist can believe in angels or other supernatural beings, how does that differ from believing in an all powerful all mighty supernatural being, after all that is what God is.


How do you think life came to be?
I proclaim that I am an atheist to convey the fact that I do not believe in any gods. I make that proclamation because the I believe that the world will become safer for us when we are more open about who we are. Atheists are everywhere, but we are not safe everywhere. Atheists have historically been killed by believers of various gods. They are still killed by some. Even here in the U.S., coming out as atheist gets people alienated from their families and friends. It can even get people fired from their jobs. Religious people can be very hostile to people who don't belong to their religion, especially down here in the Bible Belt.

In one way, you're right. If there were no theists, nobody would say they are atheists. The word itself would never be used. It would vanish in a single generation. It's only used in response to religion.

Angels and other supernatural beings aren't gods. Surely you would agree that the Archangel Gabriel isn't God, wouldn't you? Your god may be "an all powerful all mighty supernatural being" but that doesn't mean that all supernatural beings qualify as being gods. Atheism, and theism too, are just about things you would call gods. Everything else is something else. A belief in angels isn't the same as a belief in a god. Atheism is just not having a belief in a god. It isn't about angels.
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post #6 of 107 (permalink) Old 07-06-2017, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Questions?

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How do you think life came to be?
Oops, I forgot about that question. The short answer: I don't know.

The not quite as short answer: Abiogenesis has not been figured out yet. Nobody knows. I remember seeing a video on YouTube that showed a possible progression from chemistry to biology. It wasn't perfect, but it gave a plausible progression that went from some basic proteins to multi-cellular life. It probably won't be too hard to find. YouTube's search feature is actually decent.

Life would obviously come from something that wasn't alive. Otherwise, life would have existed from the initial moment of the universe and wouldn't be anything requiring an explanation as it would be necessary.
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post #7 of 107 (permalink) Old 07-06-2017, 08:08 PM
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Re: Questions?

just one thing, about understanding vs believing in the existence of God... I don't understand my wife, by i believe that she exists! matter fact, i beleive that God put her here to help me overcome my own spiratual incompetencies.

ok well i guess another thing lol, years ago i became very curious about other organized religions (I'm southern Baptist). i'm also curious about atheism. and agnostics, i don't understand the difference. i was under the impression that agnostic was what you were describing, and atheism was much more organized. so i'm kinda here to learn!


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post #8 of 107 (permalink) Old 07-06-2017, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Questions?

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just one thing, about understanding vs believing in the existence of God... I don't understand my wife, by i believe that she exists! matter fact, i beleive that God put her here to help me overcome my own spiratual incompetencies.

ok well i guess another thing lol, years ago i became very curious about other organized religions (I'm southern Baptist). i'm also curious about atheism. and agnostics, i don't understand the difference. i was under the impression that agnostic was what you were describing, and atheism was much more organized. so i'm kinda here to learn!
About your wife, she isn't incomprehensible. Sure, she does things for reasons you may not understand sometimes, but she is human. You can talk to her. She's very much like you in many ways. Heck, other women understand her extremely well. It can hardly be said that you can't understand who or what another human is. At the very least, you understand that they are human. That tells you what they are. Not understanding something 100% doesn't mean it's incomprehensible.

Theism and atheism deal with belief. Gnosticism and agnosticism deal with knowledge. If you are convinced that a god exists, then you're a theist. If you're not convinced that a god exists, you're an atheist. If you somehow have knowledge that a god does or doesn't exist, then you're a gnostic theist/atheist. If you're don't have knowledge that a god does or does not exist, then you're an agnostic theist/atheist.

I can assure you, atheism is not organized. Getting atheists together has been likened to herding cats, and that's a pretty fitting analogy. Some of us are liberal, some are conservative. Some are social justice warriors, some are disgusted by the very idea of social justice. Some love supporting local businesses, some would rather outsource everything. Atheists fall pretty much everywhere on every issue. Well, except the issue of a god existing. We all don't accept that one exists. Some even go a step further and actually believe that there is no god. Those people do qualify as atheists, but not because they believe there is no god. It's because they don't believe that there is one. People who believe there are no gods are the people that most religious people I've talked to think that all atheists are, but we're much more than just that. We are everyone who doesn't actively believe that some god exists.
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post #9 of 107 (permalink) Old 07-08-2017, 03:51 PM
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Re: Questions?

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The only possibilities aren't 1. God did it or 2. Blobs went bang. There are so many more possibilities than those. We could be in a created universe, but this universe could have been created by advanced aliens. Time may not exist in the way we think of it, and future events and actions could have an impact on the past, leading to the possibility that humans created the universe so that they could exist in it. There are so many other possibilities.

I'd also like to talk about your initial statement. There can be evidence of things. One doesn't need to have witnessed something themselves in order to not have blind faith that something happened. Heck, even when you have first hand accounts, you can't trust that the events happened as described by those first hand accounts. Just look at people who claim to have been abducted by aliens and anally probed. Think about how we solve crimes where there are no witnesses. Dead body in a room. Only one person with access to the room other than the dead guy. That other person has a motive for the crime. That person's fingerprints were in the room and on the knife stuck in the guy's chest. His/her footprints are in the blood around the body. There's blood on the person's clothes, etc. There's actually evidence that shows that the person did the crime. It's not a matter of blind faith.

If it was just a matter of blind faith, then pointing out that atheists have blind faith just like theists doesn't do anything to support the position that a god exists. It would just mean that atheists and theists are both irrational.



I'd like to bring your attention to the first statement of this quote: "Secondly IF we could understand who/what God is then God would not be anything special." By that logic, god is nothing special, or you can't understand god. If you can't understand who/what god is, then you can't claim to understand that it exists, or is the creator of the universe, or is a moral compass, or is the god of the bible. It's self contradictory to claim that you can't understand who or what god is, but understand that god is the god of the bible (who god is) and that god is the creator of the universe and the moral compass (what god is).

If you can't understand who/what god is, then you can't claim to understand who/what god is. You yourself said, "I think it is foolish on anyones part to have an argument or discussion about some thing we know nothing about." I agree with that completely. If you can't understand god, then you can't claim to understand it. I don't see how someone can claim that they can't understand who or what something is, but that they believe it exists.

I'll take it from your response, that you see parts of the bible as metaphorical, rather than historical. Thank you for the link about Biblicism. It was informative.



I proclaim that I am an atheist to convey the fact that I do not believe in any gods. I make that proclamation because the I believe that the world will become safer for us when we are more open about who we are. Atheists are everywhere, but we are not safe everywhere. Atheists have historically been killed by believers of various gods. They are still killed by some. Even here in the U.S., coming out as atheist gets people alienated from their families and friends. It can even get people fired from their jobs. Religious people can be very hostile to people who don't belong to their religion, especially down here in the Bible Belt.

In one way, you're right. If there were no theists, nobody would say they are atheists. The word itself would never be used. It would vanish in a single generation. It's only used in response to religion.

Angels and other supernatural beings aren't gods. Surely you would agree that the Archangel Gabriel isn't God, wouldn't you? Your god may be "an all powerful all mighty supernatural being" but that doesn't mean that all supernatural beings qualify as being gods. Atheism, and theism too, are just about things you would call gods. Everything else is something else. A belief in angels isn't the same as a belief in a god. Atheism is just not having a belief in a god. It isn't about angels.
Lots of different ideas and directions there, let me put it real simple. EVERYDAY I experience GOD in my life and business, The same God that the Bible speaks about. I have lived without God in my life and I live with God in my life and He is as real as any Human that I can physically see and touch. I may not see Him and He may not speak to me in an audible voice but He does answer my questions and shows me that He is there and listening...

Read up on the Dunning Kruger effect, the cliff note version is

"Problem if you are smart -You think things come easy to others as they do to you....

Problem if you are dumb - you aren't smart enough to know how much you don't know....

The version that applies here on this topic

Problem if you know and have God in your life -You think "understanding" comes easy to others as it does to you....

Problem if you don't know God - you lack the "understanding" to know how much you don't know....

and let me add Knowing and living with God in your life has nothing to do with being smart or dumb, has to do with simple child like faith, yes that simple.
If you really want to know simply ask Him to show you with a sincere heart and he promises He will.

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post #10 of 107 (permalink) Old 07-08-2017, 07:46 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Questions?

Are you saying that belief in a god comes down to nothing but faith? If so, can you tell me what faith is?
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