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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-16-2009, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
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Tea Party thoughts

Found this article, and thought it was interesting. Something else.... it came from CNN rather than Fox News

Commentary: How GOP can manage Tea Party - CNN.com

First, I've never been a huge fan of the Tea Parties because of some of the problems the author has identified in this article. To me, there are too many nonsensical right-wing extremist that ruin the theme of the Tea Party, and send mixed messages, thus invalidating the Tea Parties in the eyes of the general public.

Some good thoughts that come out of that article:
1) He mentions that there are many different strands joined together, but they are only connected by a resentment of Washington. It's a good point, as he makes an example of the "birther movement" as being illegitimate. Those birther's a giving the Tea Parties a bad name. And there are other similar nutcase groups that try to associate themselves with the Tea Parties. Unfortunately, when you have these wack-job groups trying to join the Tea Party movement, it brings down the movement and makes it illegitimate in the eyes of others. He kinda touched on that in the article, and it's a very good point IMO. Here is a quote from the article:

Quote:
The Tea Party combines the best elements of civic activism with some of the worst elements of fringe extremism. While most Tea Party activists are genuinely concerned about the future of the country, some others see conspiracies around every corner and use unacceptable rhetoric to communicate their displeasure with the president.
I think he hit it dead on with that comment. It's the bad apples in the bunch that are wrecking the Tea Party movements.


2) GOP is trying to get too involved, and trying to push their own agenda using the Tea Party. The author of this article doesn't think it's a good idea, and I would agree. There's a lot of people pissed off at the GOP. Instead, the GOP might actually want to LISTEN to their constituents, then change course to parallel that of what the people want, rather than trying to tell people what they think they should want.


The problems I still see with the Tea Parties is that they are mainly motivated by the presence of Obama in the White House, and the Democrat controlled house and senate. The article tries to say it's motivated by out of control spending, growing government, etc, but we saw that under Bush (which the author does admit in the article). However, the hypocrisy I see is if this really was true (that these rallies are about spending and government), then why weren't there Tea Parties held while Bush was in office?

To me, that's my first indication that the Tea Parties are mostly anti-Obama rallies, rather than anti-government-spending/control rallies. If these rallies were held when Bush was in office, they would have MUCH greater credibility than they have now. In addition, if the crazies would freaking stay home instead of attending these Tea Parties, then just maybe there could be an actual unified, intelligent message delivered to Washington.

But somehow I doubt that dream will come. Stupidity of the masses generally rule.

Anyway, feel free to discuss your thoughts. I think most of the article explains the problems with the Tea Parties, and what needs to be done in order to get Washington to pay attention.

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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-17-2009, 02:20 AM
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Re: Tea Party thoughts

I personally attended two of the Tea Parties in my Town Square. I didn't see any of the above really. No idiots out with fk nobama signs or anywhere near the like. That basically sounds like what this whole debate is about. Although I may have been thinking that very thing at some point in time. Was it ever an all out hate rally for nobama? No. Was it ever a kill the democrats session? No. It was a mix of ALL political parties out to try and squash the ridiculous spending measures, and MORE new taxes to make up for said spending.

I went to be one more voice. I went to put one more opinion out against more tax, and more spending.


Now to my rant!!!!!
I cant remember where I seen it posted but before nobama, there wasn't such a spending spree. And before you say that G. W. Bush was spending blah in the fking war. Think to yourself. Do you want the war here on the streets of America or would you rather us go blow someone else's ass sky high. The war was necessary.
A. If Bush did not go to war. He would have been CRUCIFIED.

B. We went to war. He is CRITICIZED....

So now that this matter is clear and no argument can be made against that.

G. Ws small, minuscule, little stimulus didn't put us in this mess. nobamas ridiculous spending (BAILING OUT FUKING AUTO MAKERS AND THEN APPOINTING HIS OWN STAFF WHO MIGHT I ADD KNOWS NOT THE FIRST FREAKING THING ABOUT THE AUTOMOTIVE BUSINESS, along with other spending issues) and dumbass tactics are huge in the what did one president do as compared to the other quarrel. Therefore, the reason there were no Tea Parties held in rebuttal to the Bush administration.

A. He did the job. Only pissed off code pink and alike idiots. And wasn't afraid to push the damn button

B. All that opposed the Bush administration weren't smart enough to orchestrate such a gathering. They were too busy sitting at home bitching to their pothead friends about Bush instead of taking action. They were too busy waiting for someone to come by offering handouts to get off their lazy asses. I would go further with that elaboration but it would get me labeled as a RACIST because someone on here is going to think I am talking about a specific race.....................NO PEOPLE. I am speaking in terms of LAZY ASS AMERICA. Those mother fkers on welfare that are perfectly capable of getting a damn job. Those that absolutely refuse to work because someone will GIVE them what they need to survive. (blood pressure is through the roof so Ill stop there)

Rant over. Feel free to crush my post now Curtis. You A-hole.

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-17-2009, 03:02 AM
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Re: Tea Party thoughts

Im calm now.

The Boston Tea Party was a direct action by colonists in Boston, a town in the British colony of Massachusetts, against the British government. On December 16, 1773, after officials in Boston refused to return three shiploads of taxed tea to Britain, a group of colonists boarded the ships and destroyed the tea by throwing it into Boston Harbor. The incident remains an iconic event of American history, and has often been referenced in other political protests.


Now how is this incident in history not a group of "extremists". Thats what the Tea Parties were labled as. Were they not?



Whether or not Samuel Adams helped plan the Boston Tea Party is unknown, but he immediately worked to publicize and defend it. He argued that the Tea Party was not the act of a lawless mob, but was instead a principled protest and the only remaining option the people had to defend their constitutional rights

This is why.
But can this be argued in todays Tea Parties where these so called "Right-Wing Extremists" go to protest and voice opinions. No. Because the lefties will shoot it down and discredit the acts, opinions and voices of the people.

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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-17-2009, 03:34 AM
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Re: Tea Party thoughts

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Originally Posted by Pocket View Post
Found this article, and thought it was interesting. Something else.... it came from CNN rather than Fox News

I won't lie, fox is more right than left, 55/45, every other news source is 85/15 for the left, and I'm being very generous in your favor probably closer to 95/5

First, I've never been a huge fan of the Tea Parties because of some of the problems the author has identified in this article. To me, there are too many nonsensical right-wing extremist that ruin the theme of the Tea Party, and send mixed messages, thus invalidating the Tea Parties in the eyes of the general public.
And the SEIU and Acorn which receive taxpayer money aren't in the liberal band camp? They aren't extremists for the left? I don't even think they are in left field, they are a foul ball outside of left field. I don't give 2 poops that Obama is black, he could be white, orange, purple, pink or blue (he couldn't be green, I don't like green people, they are from Mars and eat earthlings) His idea of where we should head is a road paved to hell with no freedom. I have had to many family members fight and die for your and my freedoms among many other brave men and women.

I'm willing to bet anyone that after he gets health care passed he will keep his word that illegals won't be covered by it. I truly think he is telling you the truth. I can see behind the wool. Ever her of amnesty?
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-17-2009, 04:14 AM
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Re: Tea Party thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket View Post
Found this article, and thought it was interesting. Something else.... it came from CNN rather than Fox News

Commentary: How GOP can manage Tea Party - CNN.com

First, I've never been a huge fan of the Tea Parties because of some of the problems the author has identified in this article. To me, there are too many nonsensical right-wing extremist that ruin the theme of the Tea Party, and send mixed messages, thus invalidating the Tea Parties in the eyes of the general public. There's always a wing nut in the crowd.

Some good thoughts that come out of that article:
1) He mentions that there are many different strands joined together, but they are only connected by a resentment of Washington. It's a good point, as he makes an example of the "birther movement" as being illegitimate. The birther movement is illegitimate, just like the 9/11 truther idiots. Those birther's a giving the Tea Parties a bad name. And there are other similar nutcase groups that try to associate themselves with the Tea Parties. Unfortunately, when you have these wack-job groups trying to join the Tea Party movement, it brings down the movement and makes it illegitimate in the eyes of others. He kinda touched on that in the article, and it's a very good point IMO. Here is a quote from the article:


I think he hit it dead on with that comment. It's the bad apples in the bunch that are wrecking the Tea Party movements.


2) GOP is trying to get too involved, and trying to push their own agenda using the Tea Party. The author of this article doesn't think it's a good idea, and I would agree. There's a lot of people pissed off at the GOP. Instead, the GOP might actually want to LISTEN to their constituents, then change course to parallel that of what the people want, rather than trying to tell people what they think they should want. I agree, but I believe that's exactly what some of them are trying to do. Hell...I'd be a devout Republican, if they would. But you have to admit that, historically, Republicans have been for less government control and lower taxes. Which is what the tea parties are all about.

The problems I still see with the Tea Parties is that they are mainly motivated by the presence of Obama in the White House, and the Democrat controlled house and senate. The article tries to say it's motivated by out of control spending, growing government, etc, but we saw that under Bush (which the author does admit in the article). However, the hypocrisy I see is if this really was true (that these rallies are about spending and government), then why weren't there Tea Parties held while Bush was in office? So the main motivation is Obama, Pelosi, and Reid? Wow...did you formulate that all on your own? Duh. It's the policies of these people that people are protesting. Admittedly, Bush spent too much. But that doesn't forgive the fact that Obama has quadrupled Bush's deficit. It's the degree of severity that is the only difference.

To me, that's my first indication that the Tea Parties are mostly anti-Obama rallies, rather than anti-government-spending/control rallies. If these rallies were held when Bush was in office, they would have MUCH greater credibility than they have now. In addition, if the crazies would freaking stay home instead of attending these Tea Parties, then just maybe there could be an actual unified, intelligent message delivered to Washington. That's like saying 'when the damn broke everyone complained, but they have no credibility because no one said anything when it was only leaking.'

But somehow I doubt that dream will come. Stupidity of the masses generally rule.

Anyway, feel free to discuss your thoughts. I think most of the article explains the problems with the Tea Parties, and what needs to be done in order to get Washington to pay attention.
Personally, I see no problems with the Tea Parties. I wasn't there, so I can't say what they were like. But they have as much right as anyone at a Bush bashing party, or an anti-World Bank rally.

I hope they actually accomplish something and we get back to a more Constitutional Government. You know...the kind where each person is responsible for their own well being, and the government stays out of our way. The group we have in there now wants to turn us into more of a Socialist country.

The way I see it, history has shown us, repeatedly, that every form of society where the government is in control (Socialist, Communist, Fascist, etc.) has failed miserably. Usually from running out of money, occasionally from revolution. I, for one, don't want to repeat history.

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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-17-2009, 04:45 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Tea Party thoughts

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Originally Posted by 'powerstroke7.3 View Post
I personally attended two of the Tea Parties in my Town Square. I didn't see any of the above really. No idiots out with fk nobama signs or anywhere near the like.
What about the other tea parties where this type of action was going on? Because yes, this did happen, but it wasn't by the majority of tea party attendees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'powerstroke7.3 View Post
That basically sounds like what this whole debate is about.
Mainly, yes. But remember, it's a minority of people at these tea parties that are doing this. I tried to make that very clear, but I don't think you figured it out based on your response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'powerstroke7.3 View Post
Although I may have been thinking that very thing at some point in time. Was it ever an all out hate rally for nobama? No. Was it ever a kill the democrats session? No. It was a mix of ALL political parties out to try and squash the ridiculous spending measures, and MORE new taxes to make up for said spending.
And that's what it should be about. Unfortunately, not all the tea parties across the U.S. are voicing the same message. It's true, I've watched plenty of tea party videos from different events all over the country. The messages were about as mixed as a melted box of crayons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'powerstroke7.3 View Post
Now to my rant!!!!!
I cant remember where I seen it posted but before nobama, there wasn't such a spending spree. And before you say that G. W. Bush was spending blah in the fking war.
The war was only part of it. Bush did actually grow the government (and spending) by quite a bit in his two terms... and it wasn't military related either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'powerstroke7.3 View Post
Think to yourself. Do you want the war here on the streets of America or would you rather us go blow someone else's ass sky high. The war was necessary.
I don't remember Iraq trying to blow us up. I remember others telling us that Iraq was trying to blow us up, but that has now been proven false. Ask yourself this... were we convinced to invade Iraq based on "we must do a good deed and remove an evil dictator and save the poor helpless people of Iraq"? Or were we told "Iraq has weapons and will use them against us if we don't strike first"?

Face it, the latter is what happened, and the first is excuse given after we figured out that Iraq really didn't have the capability of doing anything to us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'powerstroke7.3 View Post
A. If Bush did not go to war. He would have been CRUCIFIED.

B. We went to war. He is CRITICIZED....
Iraq or Afghanistan?

If you say Afghanistan, then you might be correct.

If you say Iraq, then you might be wrong. After all, no one was really interested in invading Iraq until Bush kept beating the drums. If he kept his mouth shut, no one would have cared, and we would have only had to deal with Afghanistan.

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Originally Posted by 'powerstroke7.3 View Post
now that this matter is clear and no argument can be made against that.
Ummm.... ok

By the way, I personally agreed with invading Afghanistan. However, I was always against invading Iraq. One more thing to note... I always supported the troops, regardless of the stupid decisions made on Capitol Hill. My personal motto with the military - it's my right to disagree with the war, but I will always support the troops.

*I had to put that caveat there, otherwise people will try to make me into an anti-military snob, which would be far far far from the truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'powerstroke7.3 View Post
G. Ws small, minuscule, little stimulus didn't put us in this mess. nobamas ridiculous spending (BAILING OUT FUKING AUTO MAKERS AND THEN APPOINTING HIS OWN STAFF WHO MIGHT I ADD KNOWS NOT THE FIRST FREAKING THING ABOUT THE AUTOMOTIVE BUSINESS, along with other spending issues) and dumbass tactics are huge in the what did one president do as compared to the other quarrel. Therefore, the reason there were no Tea Parties held in rebuttal to the Bush administration.
Wow, how quickly you forgot less than 1 year of history. Bush was the one who bailed out the banks and financial institutions. Bush was the one who bailed out the automakers. Bush was the one who sent out the first round of "stimulus" money. Obama just followed in good ol' George's footsteps. Sure you can argue that Obama wrote bigger checks, but Bush and Obama shared in the same actions. So yes, tea parties held in rebuttal to Bush would have been VERY appropriate, since Bush violated the same principles that the tea parties stand for.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 'powerstroke7.3 View Post
Im calm now.

The Boston Tea Party was a direct action by colonists in Boston, a town in the British colony of Massachusetts, against the British government. On December 16, 1773, after officials in Boston refused to return three shiploads of taxed tea to Britain, a group of colonists boarded the ships and destroyed the tea by throwing it into Boston Harbor. The incident remains an iconic event of American history, and has often been referenced in other political protests.


Now how is this incident in history not a group of "extremists". Thats what the Tea Parties were labled as. Were they not?



Whether or not Samuel Adams helped plan the Boston Tea Party is unknown, but he immediately worked to publicize and defend it. He argued that the Tea Party was not the act of a lawless mob, but was instead a principled protest and the only remaining option the people had to defend their constitutional rights

This is why.
But can this be argued in todays Tea Parties where these so called "Right-Wing Extremists" go to protest and voice opinions. No. Because the lefties will shoot it down and discredit the acts, opinions and voices of the people.
The Boston Tea party was the result of years and years and years and years of oppression by a foreign government without the ability to vote in representatives into that government.

The tea parties of 2009 are the result of one single election of our domestic government, who were voted in by free citizens.

So no, they aren't even close. I would imagine the people who orchestrated the original Boston Tea Parties would probably be offended at the current references of the tea parties of 2009. They would probably call everyone a bunch of crybabies. After all, you think you're mad because the person you voted for didn't make it into office? Imagine completely losing the right to vote. If you aren't sure at what I'm getting at, read this next question.

One question, and think very hard about it: if McCain won the presidency instead of Obama, would the tea party protests have happened?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatirider944 View Post
And the SEIU and Acorn which receive taxpayer money aren't in the liberal band camp? They aren't extremists for the left?
Yes there are extremists on the left. And guess what? You guys label all democrats as "left-wing liberal hippies" because of those few nutball lefty extremists. But those left-wing extremists are the minority of the group, believe it or not.

Wow, what a surprise there.... stereotyping. Who woulda thunk that stereotyping happens to both sides. Many Republicans don't like to be called "right-wing extremists", and many Democrats don't like to be called "left-wing extremists".

Somehow I think this idea will go right over everyone's collective heads.

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-17-2009, 04:49 AM
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Re: Tea Party thoughts

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...Instead, the GOP might actually want to LISTEN to their constituents, then change course to parallel that of what the people want, rather than trying to tell people what they think they should want.
GOP? Aren't the democrats doing this exact thing right now pushing through stimulus bills and health care reform without listening to the people themselves?

How's this statement...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket View Post
...Instead, all politicians might actually want to LISTEN to their constituents, then change course to parallel that of what the people want, rather than trying to tell people what they think they should want.
Sounds like what the original intent of having a "representative" was all about...to represent the people's opinion whether it parallels their own or not. I view the tea parties as frustrated individuals voicing their opinions because their representation is not voicing it for them.

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-17-2009, 04:50 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Tea Party thoughts

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Originally Posted by BrianC View Post
Personally, I see no problems with the Tea Parties. I wasn't there, so I can't say what they were like. But they have as much right as anyone at a Bush bashing party, or an anti-World Bank rally.

I hope they actually accomplish something and we get back to a more Constitutional Government. You know...the kind where each person is responsible for their own well being, and the government stays out of our way. The group we have in there now wants to turn us into more of a Socialist country.

The way I see it, history has shown us, repeatedly, that every form of society where the government is in control (Socialist, Communist, Fascist, etc.) has failed miserably. Usually from running out of money, occasionally from revolution. I, for one, don't want to repeat history.
But how can they accomplish something if people "on the right" can't speak in one collective voice. Because so far, they haven't delivered a clear message to Washington. You have people like Rush and Beck saying one thing, Republican party saying another, right-wing extremists saying something totally different, and then the "normal" people who can't seem to say anything because everyone else is drowning them out.

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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-17-2009, 04:51 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Tea Party thoughts

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GOP? Aren't the democrats doing this exact thing right now pushing through stimulus bills and health care reform without listening to the people themselves?

How's this statement...



Sounds like what the original intent of having a "representative" was all about...to represent the people's opinion whether it parallels their own or not. I view the tea parties as frustrated individuals voicing their opinions because their representation is not voicing it for them.
Very very very true. I think you've seen the light

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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-17-2009, 05:01 AM
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Re: Tea Party thoughts

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Wow, how quickly you forgot less than 1 year of history. Bush was the one who bailed out the banks and financial institutions. Bush was the one who bailed out the automakers. Bush was the one who sent out the first round of "stimulus" money. Obama just followed in good ol' George's footsteps. Sure you can argue that Obama wrote bigger checks, but Bush and Obama shared in the same actions. So yes, tea parties held in rebuttal to Bush would have been VERY appropriate, since Bush violated the same principles that the tea parties stand for.
Curtis Both of you kind of forgot one year of history. You are correct that Bush initiated the bailout. But he also said it was to be a short term measure to make Obama's transition to office easier

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