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post #1 of 82 (permalink) Old 08-05-2012, 08:05 PM Thread Starter
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Odumbass not keeping his promise. On not taxing

Few of President Obama’s 2008 campaign pledges were more definitive than his vow that anyone making less than $250,000 a year “will not see their taxes increase by a single dime” if he was elected. And he was right, very strictly speaking: It’s going to be many, many, many billions of dimes.

Asked about raising taxes on the middle class on Sunday on CBS’s “Face the Nation,” White House economist Larry Summers wouldn’t repeat Mr. Obama’s pre-election promise. “It is never a good idea to absolutely rule things out no matter what,” Mr. Summers said—except, apparently, when his boss is running for office. Meanwhile, on ABC’s “This Week,” Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner also slid around Mr. Obama’s vow and said, “We have to bring these deficits down very dramatically. And that’s going to require some very hard choices.”

These aren’t even nondenial denials. The Obama advisers are laying the groundwork for taxing the middle class while claiming the deficit made them do it.

The liberal establishment is even further along in finally admitting that Mr. Obama wasn’t, er, telling the truth. A piece in the New York Times over the weekend declared in a headline that “the Rich Can’t Pay for Everything, Analysts Say.” And it quoted Leonard Burman, a veteran of the Clinton Treasury who now runs the Brookings Tax Policy Center, as saying that “This idea that everything new that government provides ought to be paid for by the top 5%, that’s a basically unstable way of governing.” They’re right, but where were they during the campaign?

Enlarge Image

Associated Press
Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner

In an editorial on February 26, “The 2% Illusion,” we wrote that the feds could take 100% of the taxable income of everyone in America earning more than $500,000 and still have raised only $1.3 trillion even in the boom year of 2006. The rich are fewer and less rich now, while the Obama budget is nearly $4 trillion.

Democrats already plan to repeal the Bush tax cuts, but that won’t raise enough money. So they’re proposing an income tax surcharge on “the wealthy,” but that won’t raise enough either. Democrats have no choice but to soak the middle class because only they have enough money to finance the liberal dream of yoking the middle class to cradle-to-grave government entitlements.

Democrats have already taxed the middle class by raising cigarette taxes to pay for the children’s health-care expansion. They’re also teeing up average earners with their cap-and-tax energy bill. Mr. Obama had hoped that cap-and-tax would raise some $646 billion over a decade, but Democrats in the House had to give most of that away in bribes to business to pass their bill. To finance ObamaCare, they’re also proposing another 10-percentage-point increase in the payroll tax on firms and individuals that don’t purchase health insurance. But this won’t raise enough money either.

So waiting in the wings is the biggest middle-class tax increase of them all: a European-style value added tax, or VAT. This tax would apply to every level of production or service, and it is beloved by politicians in Europe because it raises so much money so easily without voters noticing. Ezekiel Emanuel, a White House aide and brother of Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, has advocated a 10% VAT to finance national health care. Look for a VAT to be one of the prominent options when Mr. Obama’s tax reform commission issues its report later this year.

The undeniable reality is that you can’t run a European-style welfare-entitlement state without European-style levels of taxation on the middle class (and eventually without low European-style growth and high jobless rates). It’s looking more and more like Mr. Obama’s no-middle-class-tax pledge was one of the greatest confidence tricks in American political history.
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post #2 of 82 (permalink) Old 08-06-2012, 07:48 AM
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Re: Odumbass not keeping his promise. On not taxing

well put........

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post #3 of 82 (permalink) Old 08-06-2012, 10:10 AM
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Re: Odumbass not keeping his promise. On not taxing

What costs more........ higher taxes on cigarettes? Or hospital bills because of lung cancer? Hmmmmmmmmmmm......

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post #4 of 82 (permalink) Old 08-06-2012, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Bama View Post
Few of President Obama’s 2008 campaign pledges were more definitive than his vow that anyone making less than $250,000 a year “will not see their taxes increase by a single dime” if he was elected. And he was right, very strictly speaking: It’s going to be many, many, many billions of dimes.

Asked about raising taxes on the middle class on Sunday on CBS’s “Face the Nation,” White House economist Larry Summers wouldn’t repeat Mr. Obama’s pre-election promise. “It is never a good idea to absolutely rule things out no matter what,” Mr. Summers said—except, apparently, when his boss is running for office. Meanwhile, on ABC’s “This Week,” Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner also slid around Mr. Obama’s vow and said, “We have to bring these deficits down very dramatically. And that’s going to require some very hard choices.”

These aren’t even nondenial denials. The Obama advisers are laying the groundwork for taxing the middle class while claiming the deficit made them do it.

The liberal establishment is even further along in finally admitting that Mr. Obama wasn’t, er, telling the truth. A piece in the New York Times over the weekend declared in a headline that “the Rich Can’t Pay for Everything, Analysts Say.” And it quoted Leonard Burman, a veteran of the Clinton Treasury who now runs the Brookings Tax Policy Center, as saying that “This idea that everything new that government provides ought to be paid for by the top 5%, that’s a basically unstable way of governing.” They’re right, but where were they during the campaign?

Enlarge Image

Associated Press
Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner

In an editorial on February 26, “The 2% Illusion,” we wrote that the feds could take 100% of the taxable income of everyone in America earning more than $500,000 and still have raised only $1.3 trillion even in the boom year of 2006. The rich are fewer and less rich now, while the Obama budget is nearly $4 trillion.

Democrats already plan to repeal the Bush tax cuts, but that won’t raise enough money. So they’re proposing an income tax surcharge on “the wealthy,” but that won’t raise enough either. Democrats have no choice but to soak the middle class because only they have enough money to finance the liberal dream of yoking the middle class to cradle-to-grave government entitlements.

Democrats have already taxed the middle class by raising cigarette taxes to pay for the children’s health-care expansion. They’re also teeing up average earners with their cap-and-tax energy bill. Mr. Obama had hoped that cap-and-tax would raise some $646 billion over a decade, but Democrats in the House had to give most of that away in bribes to business to pass their bill. To finance ObamaCare, they’re also proposing another 10-percentage-point increase in the payroll tax on firms and individuals that don’t purchase health insurance. But this won’t raise enough money either.

So waiting in the wings is the biggest middle-class tax increase of them all: a European-style value added tax, or VAT. This tax would apply to every level of production or service, and it is beloved by politicians in Europe because it raises so much money so easily without voters noticing. Ezekiel Emanuel, a White House aide and brother of Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, has advocated a 10% VAT to finance national health care. Look for a VAT to be one of the prominent options when Mr. Obama’s tax reform commission issues its report later this year.

The undeniable reality is that you can’t run a European-style welfare-entitlement state without European-style levels of taxation on the middle class (and eventually without low European-style growth and high jobless rates). It’s looking more and more like Mr. Obama’s no-middle-class-tax pledge was one of the greatest confidence tricks in American political history.
Where can i find your posts bicthing about what george dubya did or didnt do?

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post #5 of 82 (permalink) Old 08-06-2012, 05:20 PM
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Re: Odumbass not keeping his promise. On not taxing

I don't know why anyone would think that taxing cigarettes is somehow a tax on the middle class.

Taxes are required on your personal income. You don't have to smoke, therefore this is a tax that you chose to pay.

Cigarettes cost this country an incredible amount annually in health care expenses. The cost of this healthcare should be divided by the number of packs sold annually and the cigarette tax should be the dividend of this basic calculation. Since smoking will decrease as costs rise this will need to be adjusted bi-annually or whatever.

As far as Obama's campaign promises vs reality, welcome to politics my friend. The fact is that EVERYONE has a responsibility to help w/ the budget shortfall, including the middle class. And in this political climate, Obama has no chance of getting no tax increases on the middle class while getting tax increases on the wealthy. Republicans simply won't allow it.

I'm officially...Stroke-less.
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post #6 of 82 (permalink) Old 08-06-2012, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Odumbass not keeping his promise. On not taxing

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Where can i find your posts bicthing about what george dubya did or didnt do?

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Im not happy with what he did. But that was 4yrs ago.

I was told a story about a excutive one time. It maked alot of sesne. So here it goes.
The new hired excutive was walking into his office as the one he was replacing was leaving. The new hire asked the old one is there any advice you can give me? He said there are 2 letters in the safe marked 1 & 2. If things go to ####. Pull out letter 1.
So a yr went by a couple of deals went south. The company was crashing in the stock market they were laying people off. He had a meeting with the board. He ran to the safe pulled out letter one. It read blame me for everything. So thats what he did. They came up with a good plan ad pulled out of the situation. a couple more yrs went by. Then it all went south again. Just before the meeting he ran to the safe again pulled out letter one. It read write to letters and put in safe.

The moral of this story is. You can only pass the buck so much till you have to take on your own responsablity.
If the trillion dollar stimulas package had went to shovel ready jobs. In our infastructor like it was supposed to. To fix and up date it I would not have one complaint about it. Because it would have created jobs put money back in to the economy and fixed alot of stuff that needed to be done 20yrs ago.
Dont even get me started on Obamacare. We have the best healthcare system in the world. yes it does have its flaws. but nothing is perfect.
I have a aunt in washington state that is a Doctor. Over half he paitents are from Canada. Paying cash for our service. Because it takes 6 months to get in to see the dr for a common cold. I dont know about you but i dont want the government deciding if i am a good canidit for a hip replacement or a bypass sergery.
I frankly DO NOT WANT A COMANDER IN CHEIF THAT HAS NO NUTS. hE BOWED TO THE SAUDIA KING. He has run around apolgizing for our actions. We might be a arrogant nation. But when it comes down to another country needing help. Who is the first on site. who is the last to leave. Who spends trillions rebuilding for them. I dont feel like we owe any other nation an apology.
I can say this about Bush he had nuts. If you really want to pass the buck the houseing crisses backs all the way up to clinton. he is the one that started this. He is the one that pussed nafta and got it passed. That is what opened the door for somany american jobs to go to other countries.
We can pass the buck all we want. The truth is Everything Obummer has done has been to push us into a soclist country Big government big tax.
I dont know about yall but i dont wana be like england where you pay in 65% of what you make in taxes.
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post #7 of 82 (permalink) Old 08-06-2012, 05:46 PM
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Re: Odumbass not keeping his promise. On not taxing

How ####ing hard is it to spell check and type a proper paragraph... Or at least make an attempt.

Would have been a good post if it were not hacked.

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post #8 of 82 (permalink) Old 08-06-2012, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Odumbass not keeping his promise. On not taxing

Average Canadian family spends 42% of its income on taxes

The average American works 25 hours a week; the average Frenchman 18; the average Italian a bit more than 16 and a half. Even the hardest-working Europeans--the British, who put in an average of 21 and half hours--are far more laid-back than their American cousins.

Compared with Europeans, Americans are more likely to be employed and more likely to work longer hours--employed Americans put in about three hours more per week than employed Frenchmen. Most important, Americans take fewer (and shorter) vacations. The average American takes off less than six weeks a year; the average Frenchman almost 12. The world champion vacationers are the Swedes, at 16 and a half weeks per year.

Of course, Europeans pay a price for their extravagant leisure. The average Frenchman produces only three-quarters as much as the average American, even though productivity per hour is slightly higher in France.

This raises more than one interesting question. First, why do Americans choose to work so much? (Or, if you prefer, why do Europeans choose to work so little?) Second, who's happier?

One thing to keep in mind is that all of this is new. As recently as the 1970s, Europeans worked slightly more than Americans. So the right question is not just "Why is Europe different?" but "What changed?"

What changed, according to Nobel laureate Edward Prescott, is tax policy. In the early 1970s, European and U.S. marginal tax rates were comparable--and so were European and U.S. labor supplies. Between the 1970s and the 1990s, the U.S. marginal rate (inclusive of payroll taxes) stayed fixed at about 40%, while the French rate rose to 59% and the Italian rate to 64%. On a country-by-country basis, steeper marginal tax hikes are closely correlated with shorter workweeks and expanding vacations.

Case closed? Not so fast.

Here's the problem: A 20% increase in your marginal tax rate is more or less the same thing as a 20% pay cut. We have lots of data on how people respond to 20% pay cuts. By and large, though, their responses are nowhere near as dramatic as the changes we've seen in Europe.

So while Prescott's theory does a good job explaining relative changes (the countries with the biggest tax hikes had the biggest labor-supply contractions), it does a poor job explaining absolute changes. In other words, it can't explain why labor supplies across Europe have contracted so dramatically.

One trio of economists (Ed Glaeser of Harvard, Bruce Sacerdote of Dartmouth and Jose Scheinkman of Princeton) offers this explanation: When your wages are cut 20%, you take more vacations. But when your friends' wages are also cut 20%, you'll take even more vacations, because vacations are more fun when you've got friends to share them with. So a 20% across-the-board tax hike, which affects both you and your friends, yields a more dramatic response than a 20% cut in your own wages.

An overlapping trio (Glaeser, Sacerdote and Harvard's Albert Alesina) gives some credence to this "social multiplier" theory--and also some credence to Prescott's story about tax rates--but claims to have identified the primary culprit in European labor regulations. While 20% of American workers are unionized, more than 80% of workers are unionized in France and Sweden. And while American unions have spent the past few decades fighting for higher wages, European unions have fought for shorter hours.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing? According to traditional economic theory, workers are best off when they can decide for themselves how much to work. Some workers might choose long hours and big paychecks; others might choose less income and long vacations.

Union-inspired regulations, by restricting individual choice, can only make those workers worse off. But here's what traditional theory overlooks: If you live in Europe, then union regulations not only force you to work less; they also force your friends to work less--which can be a blessing if you're trying to coordinate a camping trip.

So, at least in principle, coercive union rules could be good for everyone. So, for that matter, could high marginal tax rates, and for exactly the same reason: The more your friends are taxed, the easier it is to coax them into taking time off to share your vacation time.

Is that a good reason to root for higher taxes and more regulation in the workplace? Sure. Does it override all the good reasons to root for low taxes and free labor markets? Probably not. In fact, you can make exactly the same sort of argument in the opposite direction--when taxes are low, your colleagues spend more time at work--which makes your own work time less frantic, more congenial and more productive.

Time will tell. If European and American paths continue to diverge, we'll soon learn a lot more about whether well-rested Frenchmen are happier than wealthy Americans.

Steven Landsburg is an economics professor at the University of Rochester in New York and the author of The Armchair Economist and Fair Play.
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post #9 of 82 (permalink) Old 08-06-2012, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Odumbass not keeping his promise. On not taxing

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How ####ing hard is it to spell check and type a proper paragraph... Or at least make an attempt.

Would have been a good post if it were not hacked.
I tried the spell check Because i know my spelling and grammer is not that good. It wanted me to download a program. My internet is very slow and hit and miss right now. I am on a wireless card out in BFE. So i skiped pass that part. So excuse me all to Hell.
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post #10 of 82 (permalink) Old 08-06-2012, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Odumbass not keeping his promise. On not taxing

Get rid of a lot of the pork barrel spending. and we wont have to raise taxes. It is prove
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Branch * California Regional Water Quality Control Boards * California Registered Veterinary Technician Committee * California Registrar of Charitable Trusts * California Republican Caucus * California Research and Development Division * California Research Bureau * California Resources Agency * California Respiratory Care Board * California Rivers Assessment * California Rural Health Policy Council * California Safe Schools * California San Francisco Bay Conservation and Development Commission * California San Gabriel and Lower Los Angeles Rivers and Mountains Conservancy * California San Joaquin River Conservancy * California School to Career * California Science Center * California Scripps Institution of Oceanography * California Secretary of State Business Portal * California Secretary of State * California Seismic Safety Commission * California Self Insurance Plans (SIP) * California Senate Office of Research * California Small Business and Disabled Veteran Business Enterprise Certification Program * California Small Business Development Center Program * California Smart Growth Caucus * California Smog Check Information Center * California Spatial Information Library * California Special Education Division * California Speech-Language Pathology and Audiology Board * California Standardized Testing and Reporting (STAR) * California Standards and Assessment Division * California State Administrative Manual (SAM) * California State Allocation Board * California State and Consumer Services Agency * California State Architect * California State Archives * California State Assembly * California State Association of Counties (CSAC) * California State Board of Education * California State Board of Food and Agriculture *California Office of the Chief Information Officer (OCIO) * California State Children's Trust Fund * California State Compensation Insurance Fund * California State Contracts Register Program * California State Contracts Register * California State Controller * California State Council on Developmental Disabilities (SCDD) * California State Disability Insurance (SDI) * California State Fair (Cal Expo) * California State Jobs Employment Information * California State Lands Commission * California State Legislative Portal * California State Legislature * California State Library Catalog * California State Library Services Bureau * California State Library * California State Lottery * California State Mediation and Conciliation Service * California State Mining and Geology Board * California State Park and Recreation Commission * California State Parks * California State Personnel Board * California State Polytechnic University, Pomona * California State Railroad Museum * California State Science Fair * California State Senate * California State Summer School for Mathematics and Science (COSMOS) * California State Summer School for the Arts * California State Superintendent of Public Instruction * California State Teachers Retirement System (CalSTRS) * California State Treasurer * California State University Center for Distributed Learning * California State University, Bakersfield * California State University, Channel Islands * California State University, Chico * California State University, Dominguez Hills * California State University, East Bay * California State University, Fresno * California State University, Fullerton * California State University, Long Beach * California State University, Los Angeles * California State University, Monterey Bay * California State University, Northridge * California State University, Sacramento * California State University, San Bernardino * California State University, San Marcos * California State University, Stanislaus * California State University (CSU) * California State Water Project Analysis Office * California State Water Project * California State Water Resources Control Board * California Structural Pest Control Board * California Student Aid Commission * California Superintendent of Public Instruction * California Superior Courts * California Tahoe Conservancy * California Task Force on Culturally and Linguistically Competent Physicians and Dentists * California Tax Information Center * California Technology and Administration Branch Finance * California Telecommunications Division * California Telephone Medical Advice Services (TAMS) * California Transportation Commission * California Travel and Transportation Agency * California Unclaimed Property Program * California Unemployment Insurance Appeals Board * California Unemployment Insurance Program * California Uniform Construction Cost Accounting Commission * California Veterans Board * California Veterans Memorial * California Veterinary Medical Board and Registered Veterinary Technician Examining Committee * California Veterinary Medical Board * California Victim Compensation and Government Claims Board * California Volunteers * California Voter Registration * California Water Commission * California Water Environment Association (COWPEA) * California Water Resources Control Board * California Welfare to Work Division * California Wetlands Information System * California Wildlife and Habitat Data Analysis Branch * California Wildlife Conservation Board * California Wildlife Programs Branch * California Work Opportunity and Responsibility to Kids (CalWORKs) * California Workers Compensation Appeals Board * California Workforce and Labor Development Agency * California Workforce Investment Board * California Youth Authority (CYA) * Central Valley Flood Protection Board * Center for California Studies * Colorado River Board of California * Counting California * Dental Board of California * Health Insurance Plan of California (PacAdvantage) * Humboldt State University * Jobs with the State of California * Judicial Council of California * Learn California * Library of California * Lieutenant Governors Commission for One California * Little Hoover Commission (on California State Government Organization and Economy) * Medical Board of California * Medi-Cal * Osteopathic Medical Board of California * Physical Therapy Board of California * Regents of the University of California * San Diego State University * San Francisco State University * San Jose State University * Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy * State Bar of California * Supreme Court of California * Teach California * University of California * University of California, Berkeley * University of California, Davis * University of California, Hastings College of the Law * University of California, Irvine * University of California, Los Angeles * University of California, Merced * University of California, Riverside * University of California, San Diego * University of California, San Francisco * University of California, Santa Barbara * University of California, Santa Cruz * Veterans Home of California.





Of course, the only places they can cut are . . . Education, Police and Fire.





Whether you’re a Democrat, a Republican or Independent, this list has to shock you.





Over the years, our politicians have created this enormous pork barrel of agencies that employ about as many people as the entire State ofAlaska !





All of these people get salaries, medical coverage and pensions at taxpayers expense.
n higher taxes dont help the economy.
Bama is offline  
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