The truth about high energy prices... - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-08-2012, 03:58 PM Thread Starter
Junior Mint
 
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The truth about high energy prices...

1) The President (any President) has no control over where traders set the price of crude oil. The only tool they have is to limit the traders, which Obama has asked for several times but had no luck at getting accomplished.

2) The other tool, is to reduce demand by running less wars and requiring higher mpg standards. Both of which Obama has done. So passing more strict mpg standards, lowers oil prices in the long run.

3) The 3rd factor in energy prices is OPEC and how much oil they release. It's not US production unfortunately for 2 reasons, it's too small of a % of the worldwide total to effectively lower energy prices (outside of Commodities Traders over reactions) and our cost to produce is over $65/ barrell. See we only can even produce when oil is high.

4) The other LARGE factor is Recession. People drive less, fly less, spend less in general during recession. Oil prices dropped at the end of the Bush presidency because of the start of the Great Recession that Bush presided over as energy usage was already decreasing greatly. Energy prices rose over the last 2 years because the recession was ending. Now we are in danger of slipping back in to recession and people are tightening their belts again which is reducing oil prices. Lowering oil prices this way is the worst option available.

5) In spite of what is claimed all of the time by the right, we are not having record high fuel prices right now. It was most recently over 30% higher during the Bush Presidency and more than that if you calculate inflation.

6) Anyone w/ half a brain should have purchased a more fuel efficient vehicle over the last 5-6 years if their fuel costs mattered to them. I drive a sports car now instead of a diesel truck and it works great for me 99.5% of the time. And my fuel costs per month are almost identical per mile to what they were in 2000 when I got my Superduty when fuel was 'cheap' Getting 3x the fuel economy tends to do that. No excuses if you still drive a gas hog.

7) My last point, and I know this is going to be hard for some of you to grasp, is that the current oil boom only exists because of high energy prices. The nature of oil exploration in the USA is that's it's hard to get at and therefore expensive. If oil drops, the oil boom in the USA goes away in the blink of an eye. I can tell you that this oil boom has been very good to me and my family.

I felt the need to cover these issues because I constantly see several members state things that are untrue about current energy prices. Just the facts please.

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post #2 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-08-2012, 07:26 PM
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Re: The truth about high energy prices...

Facts? You can't handle the facts! JK, I agree with you.

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post #3 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-09-2012, 02:37 AM
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Re: The truth about high energy prices...

Those look like opinions, not facts. Number 5 is way off because we don't have inflation right now, remember? You even preached about it in other threads

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post #4 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-09-2012, 11:18 AM
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Re: The truth about high energy prices...

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Originally Posted by ducatirider944 View Post
Number 5 is way off because we don't have inflation right now, remember? You even preached about it in other threads
Flat out lie right there.

What was claimed by some was that we had high and uncontrollable inflation. When what we actually have is relatively low inflation. It's still inflation. No one ever claimed that we have no inflation or that we don't have inflation.

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post #5 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-09-2012, 01:01 PM
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Re: The truth about high energy prices...

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Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
1) The President (any President) has no control over where traders set the price of crude oil. The only tool they have is to limit the traders, which Obama has asked for several times but had no luck at getting accomplished.

2) The other tool, is to reduce demand by running less wars and requiring higher mpg standards. Both of which Obama has done. So passing more strict mpg standards, lowers oil prices in the long run.

3) The 3rd factor in energy prices is OPEC and how much oil they release. It's not US production unfortunately for 2 reasons, it's too small of a % of the worldwide total to effectively lower energy prices (outside of Commodities Traders over reactions) and our cost to produce is over $65/ barrell. See we only can even produce when oil is high.

4) The other LARGE factor is Recession. People drive less, fly less, spend less in general during recession. Oil prices dropped at the end of the Bush presidency because of the start of the Great Recession that Bush presided over as energy usage was already decreasing greatly. Energy prices rose over the last 2 years because the recession was ending. Now we are in danger of slipping back in to recession and people are tightening their belts again which is reducing oil prices. Lowering oil prices this way is the worst option available.

5) In spite of what is claimed all of the time by the right, we are not having record high fuel prices right now. It was most recently over 30% higher during the Bush Presidency and more than that if you calculate inflation.

6) Anyone w/ half a brain should have purchased a more fuel efficient vehicle over the last 5-6 years if their fuel costs mattered to them. I drive a sports car now instead of a diesel truck and it works great for me 99.5% of the time. And my fuel costs per month are almost identical per mile to what they were in 2000 when I got my Superduty when fuel was 'cheap' Getting 3x the fuel economy tends to do that. No excuses if you still drive a gas hog.

7) My last point, and I know this is going to be hard for some of you to grasp, is that the current oil boom only exists because of high energy prices. The nature of oil exploration in the USA is that's it's hard to get at and therefore expensive. If oil drops, the oil boom in the USA goes away in the blink of an eye. I can tell you that this oil boom has been very good to me and my family.

I felt the need to cover these issues because I constantly see several members state things that are untrue about current energy prices. Just the facts please.
1 Answer =, you would be correct.. However isn't it funny how the obama campaign hammered and meammerd on bush about this one.. Looks like it's biteing him in the ass now dont it... #2 answer, yes you would be correct here, running a war does create higher fuel demands, and also cost money for a country to fund.. To a large degree it needed to be done.. #3 = Right again to a degree.. You also need to add to the fact we lack refineries, and we restrict the piss out of produceing here.. There are some other things we could talk here, but it really would get us nowhere..#4= right again.. Two probs here though.. When demand dropped 2 years ago, states were complaining about not enough taxes to fund repairs, so they were gonna solve this and add to the tax rate.. second prob, all these folks rideing around on welfare thinking they have someplace to be.. Put there butts to work, then they would have some place to be.. Some might think this is just b.s, you would be suprised.. #5 = wrong we are having high fuel prices now, and this time they have truely effected other goods and items even more.. I will say it again, when katrina hit the gulf and fuell prices truely surged for the first time, the willingness for people to sit in line and pay those highe prices is sending a bad message to the oil companies and especially the traders.. Low and behold it hasnt turned around since.. #6 yes some can, but many cant.. I started driveing diesel pickups when diesel was 65 cents a gallon, and the mileage on them was nearly twice of what a comparable gas burner got.. Bottom line, be it recreation, or working, i need my truck daily.. Many others are the same.. Again some more lefty thinking there.. #7= not trying to be rude here, but theres not much you can tell me about energy prices and the production boom.. I have lived in the one of the most richest oil/gas locations of Texas all my life..
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post #6 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-09-2012, 09:22 PM
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Re: The truth about high energy prices...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
1) The President (any President) has no control over where traders set the price of crude oil. The only tool they have is to limit the traders, which Obama has asked for several times but had no luck at getting accomplished. Limit what? The number of traders? Raising their margin requirements when they trade would be more effective. Or possibly making them actually take delivery of the oil, not just trade it on paper.

2) The other tool, is to reduce demand by running less wars and requiring higher mpg standards. Both of which Obama has done. So passing more strict mpg standards, lowers oil prices in the long run. Or you could just produce more oil and get the same effect, as is the case with Nat gas.

3) The 3rd factor in energy prices is OPEC and how much oil they release. It's not US production unfortunately for 2 reasons, it's too small of a % of the worldwide total to effectively lower energy prices (outside of Commodities Traders over reactions) and our cost to produce is over $65/ barrell. See we only can even produce when oil is high. I'm not sure where you got the $65 a barrel cost, but it's way off. It's closer to a third or maybe half of that.

4) The other LARGE factor is Recession. People drive less, fly less, spend less in general during recession. Oil prices dropped at the end of the Bush presidency because of the start of the Great Recession that Bush presided over as energy usage was already decreasing greatly. Energy prices rose over the last 2 years because the recession was ending. Now we are in danger of slipping back in to recession and people are tightening their belts again which is reducing oil prices. Lowering oil prices this way is the worst option available.

5) In spite of what is claimed all of the time by the right, we are not having record high fuel prices right now. It was most recently over 30% higher during the Bush Presidency and more than that if you calculate inflation. I haven't heard anyone say the prices are at an all time record high. You can say fuel prices are at the highest they've been during Obama's tenure, but that's really meaningless. And since prices have recently dropped you can't even say that anymore.

6) Anyone w/ half a brain should have purchased a more fuel efficient vehicle over the last 5-6 years if their fuel costs mattered to them. I drive a sports car now instead of a diesel truck and it works great for me 99.5% of the time. And my fuel costs per month are almost identical per mile to what they were in 2000 when I got my Superduty when fuel was 'cheap' Getting 3x the fuel economy tends to do that. No excuses if you still drive a gas hog. Not sure what the point of this is other than to state the obvious.

7) My last point, and I know this is going to be hard for some of you to grasp, is that the current oil boom only exists because of high energy prices. The nature of oil exploration in the USA is that's it's hard to get at and therefore expensive. If oil drops, the oil boom in the USA goes away in the blink of an eye. I can tell you that this oil boom has been very good to me and my family. How do you define oil that's hard to get at and therefore expensive? In my neck of the woods the oil companies spend about 2.7 million dollars to drill a new well that produces anywhere from 80 to 1200 barrels a day. The most recent report I could find shows cost per barrel at $8.47. All the estimates I read says oil is profitable as long as the price is a minimum of $30-$40 a barrel.

I felt the need to cover these issues because I constantly see several members state things that are untrue about current energy prices. Just the facts please.
You live in Texas. You should have a better grasp on the facts of the oil business. While higher oil prices have certainly helped with the oil boom, you left out the other most important factor....technology. Horizontal drilling has single-handedly done more for production than anything else in recent history. In my area the new horizontal drilling has turned an area that had been drilled and pumped for over 50 years, and basically abandoned, into a new oil boom. Just the facts please.

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post #7 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-10-2012, 04:43 PM
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Re: The truth about high energy prices...

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Originally Posted by navistar45 View Post
1 Answer =, you would be correct.. However isn't it funny how the obama campaign hammered and meammerd on bush about this one.. Looks like it's biteing him in the ass now dont it... #2 answer, yes you would be correct here, running a war does create higher fuel demands, and also cost money for a country to fund.. To a large degree it needed to be done.. #3 = Right again to a degree.. You also need to add to the fact we lack refineries, and we restrict the piss out of produceing here.. There are some other things we could talk here, but it really would get us nowhere..#4= right again.. Two probs here though.. When demand dropped 2 years ago, states were complaining about not enough taxes to fund repairs, so they were gonna solve this and add to the tax rate.. second prob, all these folks rideing around on welfare thinking they have someplace to be.. Put there butts to work, then they would have some place to be.. Some might think this is just b.s, you would be suprised.. #5 = wrong we are having high fuel prices now, and this time they have truely effected other goods and items even more.. I will say it again, when katrina hit the gulf and fuell prices truely surged for the first time, the willingness for people to sit in line and pay those highe prices is sending a bad message to the oil companies and especially the traders.. Low and behold it hasnt turned around since.. #6 yes some can, but many cant.. I started driveing diesel pickups when diesel was 65 cents a gallon, and the mileage on them was nearly twice of what a comparable gas burner got.. Bottom line, be it recreation, or working, i need my truck daily.. Many others are the same.. Again some more lefty thinking there.. #7= not trying to be rude here, but theres not much you can tell me about energy prices and the production boom.. I have lived in the one of the most richest oil/gas locations of Texas all my life..

Very well put.
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post #8 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-10-2012, 04:45 PM
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Re: The truth about high energy prices...

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Originally Posted by BrianC View Post
You live in Texas. You should have a better grasp on the facts of the oil business. While higher oil prices have certainly helped with the oil boom, you left out the other most important factor....technology. Horizontal drilling has single-handedly done more for production than anything else in recent history. In my area the new horizontal drilling has turned an area that had been drilled and pumped for over 50 years, and basically abandoned, into a new oil boom. Just the facts please.
More excellent points!
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post #9 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-11-2012, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The truth about high energy prices...

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Originally Posted by ducatirider944 View Post
Number 5 is way off because we don't have inflation right now, remember? You even preached about it in other threads
I like how there were 7 points and you only brought up an offshoot of one of them by basically claiming that I said that there is no inflation since 2007.

Here is a chart showing Consumer Pricing Index. Basically buying power. Inflation has averaged about 3.5% since 2007 which is well below the average over the last 100 years, but it's still inflation.

The price of oil peaked at $138 in June 2008. It is currently $84. That's not including any inflation.

Crude Oil Price History

Apparently it was higher during the oil crisis during the '70s.

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post #10 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-11-2012, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The truth about high energy prices...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianC View Post
You live in Texas. You should have a better grasp on the facts of the oil business. While higher oil prices have certainly helped with the oil boom, you left out the other most important factor....technology. Horizontal drilling has single-handedly done more for production than anything else in recent history. In my area the new horizontal drilling has turned an area that had been drilled and pumped for over 50 years, and basically abandoned, into a new oil boom. Just the facts please.
1) The word 'limiting' is a broad term that could include many actions to limit the damage to the US economy that traders do. Taking delivery of the product is an easy way to go but I can't say if that is the best route or not.

2) Producing more oil will NEVER be as effective in the long run at reducing oil prices. It's a finite resource. It's also incredibly short sighted. Furthermore Chesapeake Bay pulled out of the Natural Gas fields because prices were too low to make a profit. If you want more Natural gas produced (I certainly do as I believe it's the future) you will need higher prices to pull the drillers in.

3) There are a lot of sources and opinions on this topic. The cost to extract a barrel of oil in Saudi is $4-$6. The estimates I've read on doing the same in America had a low of $40 and a high of about $75. 2 customers have told me $60 and one said if oil drops below $65 they will pull out due to no profit opportunity. Here is an interesting document but unfortunately it excludes the costs in the US.

4) I guess we agree on this point since you had no rebuttal.

5) Newt says it constantly. On the rare occasion I flip to Faux News I hear the term 'record oil prices under the Obama administration' mentioned regularly. The fact is that the average person hardly pays any attention to these things and they just follow sound bites, even if they are lies.

6) The point is to stop your ####ing whining about fuel prices. If you need a heavy piece of equipment for your work or lifestyle, your rates and income need to pay for it. If you really can't, then you move next to work and buy a fuel efficient vehicle. If fuel prices are low, every idiot (including myself) will go pick up groceries in an 8K# diesel truck which is incredibly wasteful. This is human nature.

7) We have different info on the cost to extract a barrel of oil. I talk to people that do it everyday.



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