Americans want too many services, but don't want to pay for them... - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-25-2011, 07:49 PM Thread Starter
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Americans want too many services, but don't want to pay for them...

I was reading a few editorials regarding our nation's budget woes and some interesting points were made.

Polls show that people overwhelmingly don't want the Feds to cut SS benefits, Medicare, defense, tax write offs, etc... yet simultaneously they expect a tax rate lower than most of the industrialized world.

It's a tricky situation that underscores why politicians from both sides of the aisle have done such a piss poor job of tackling these issues. It's just so politically unpopular to do what is actually needed. We know from historical facts that the cutting taxes to stimulate growth angle doesn't work. At least not enough to offset the amount of the tax cuts themselves as this historically leads to higher deficit spending. Of course we can't spend our way to wealth. We need to spend less AND at least maintain our current tax rate if not outright increase it.

Politics is always unpredictable but one thing is certain: Some politician at some point in the near future will be left w/ no choice but to massively cut spending/ benefits/ tax breaks while simultaneously possibly increasing taxation. Possibly a lot! There is a tremendous amount of room in there to make certain industries (i.e. oil, banking) and many groups (i.e. military, seniors, homeowners) very angry while very little room to please anyone at all.

Is it possible that as the government makes some incredibly hard choices, many of them unpopular that anyone will continue to support the politicians that make these hard decisions? Will the Tea Party support these politicians even as they disagree w/ certain (if not all) cuts to specific programs?

Thoughts?

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post #2 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-25-2011, 08:16 PM
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Re: Americans want too many services, but don't want to pay for them...

Your party of the leftist is the ones that wants something for nothing. I have no issue paying my fair share of taxes... I don't want SS, Medicare or any of that other government invasion into my life.

Just like I don't want this health care plan. Let me live and die by my own hand and stop trying to protect me from everything and everyone including myself.

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post #3 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-25-2011, 08:25 PM
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Re: Americans want too many services, but don't want to pay for them...

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Originally Posted by CSIPSD View Post
Your party of the leftist is the ones that wants something for nothing. I have no issue paying my fair share of taxes... I don't want SS, Medicare or any of that other government invasion into my life.

Just like I don't want this health care plan. Let me live and die by my own hand and stop trying to protect me from everything and everyone including myself.
Couldn't have said it better

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post #4 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-25-2011, 08:51 PM
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Re: Americans want too many services, but don't want to pay for them...

what about wasteful spending, we've all heard about the extreme spending and what not, that has to stop too. But I seriously could live with fewer programs,,,,, even ones I have used such as FHA loans etc.

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Besides there is absolutely no way to idiot proof something, since they are always coming out with better idiots by the day
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post #5 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-25-2011, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Americans want too many services, but don't want to pay for them...

I'm disappointed that you guys both began w/ attacks instead of recognizing the obvious and be open to starting a real dialog. Are you really so ignorant as to believe that only Progressives believe in SS? Might want to double check your stats on that.

All Americans are taking from the system. Seniors are more likely to vote Conservative (for instance) but if any politician manned up and reduced government benefits on the elderly do you have any clue what would happen? Seniors, the most reliable voting block, would insure that this particular politician and his supporters were never reelected. See how that works? We tell them to reduce spending yet if they did it in any meaningful way we would elect them out for hurting us.

See you claim you don't need or want anything until they cut Defense spending, then they remove the tax deduction for home loans and children, they quit subsidizing the oil companies and oil prices jump up another 25%, etc...

Everybody is on the dole, not just a few poor people. US Defense and Oil contractors are the largest welfare recipient in the world. Attempt to look past the party rhetoric and let's pretend for a moment that we have have been tasked w/ fixing the budget short fall. How can you do it and would any politician that attempts to enact these sort of reforms have any chance of getting re-elected?

Thanks.

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post #6 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-25-2011, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Americans want too many services, but don't want to pay for them...

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Originally Posted by bluedge8 View Post
what about wasteful spending, we've all heard about the extreme spending and what not, that has to stop too. But I seriously could live with fewer programs,,,,, even ones I have used such as FHA loans etc.
Anytime anyone, group, or organization spends a lot of money a certain % is likely wasteful spending when examined thru different eyes. (not that everyone would agree) For example, my girl, is intelligent and thrifty, yet when I send her to the grocery store w/ $100 she will always make some purchase that I disagree w/ the value of. What would happen if she had a trillion to spend and she had to get 310 million people to agree w/ her purchases? How successful would she be? Maybe a 50% agreement rate is realistic? Of course we always should strive to reduce waste. This is true on a personal level as well as on a corporate or government level.

For instance, it's been shown that if more money is provided to the IRS fraud division that they have consistently been able to show a net gain in proceeds. This is a place where some investment has been shown to increase net proceeds. So waste is a legitimate area that needs to be addressed. But, realistically how much $ is actually lost thru waste?

Also, you mentioned not really 'waste' but more specifically programs that you disagree with. Although I agree w/ you that the FHA program can be done w/o, what % of the popular electorate would disagree w/ that decision? Is there a study that shows (for instance) that getting more people into home purchases will ultimately reduces crime rates therefore represent a net savings to our economy? Do these programs show a net loss or a net gain once the social costs are incorporated?

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post #7 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-25-2011, 09:26 PM
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Re: Americans want too many services, but don't want to pay for them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
I'm disappointed that you guys both began w/ attacks instead of recognizing the obvious and be open to starting a real dialog. Are you really so ignorant as to believe that only Progressives believe in SS? Might want to double check your stats on that.

All Americans are taking from the system. Seniors are more likely to vote Conservative (for instance) but if any politician manned up and reduced government benefits on the elderly do you have any clue what would happen? Seniors, the most reliable voting block, would insure that this particular politician and his supporters were never reelected. See how that works? We tell them to reduce spending yet if they did it in any meaningful way we would elect them out for hurting us.

See you claim you don't need or want anything until they cut Defense spending, then they remove the tax deduction for home loans and children, they quit subsidizing the oil companies and oil prices jump up another 25%, etc...

Everybody is on the dole, not just a few poor people. US Defense and Oil contractors are the largest welfare recipient in the world. Attempt to look past the party rhetoric and let's pretend for a moment that we have have been tasked w/ fixing the budget short fall. How can you do it and would any politician that attempts to enact these sort of reforms have any chance of getting re-elected?

Thanks.
If they had not paid into a system that was from the very beginning a bad idea then there would be no issue...

Its like feeding a kid candy all the time for breakfast, lunch and dinner... then taking it away. There going to bitch like crazy...

They should have never been given the candy in the first place.

The party of gimme gimmie gimmie made this... I want no part of any of them.

When politicians worry less about the next election and more about doing whats right, we will be alot better off.

Being in government was never meant to be a job, it was meant to be a privilege, something you did to help your country... These guys are ALL on the take.

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post #8 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-25-2011, 10:40 PM
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Re: Americans want too many services, but don't want to pay for them...

On second thought....it just isn't worth it

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post #9 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-25-2011, 11:15 PM
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Re: Americans want too many services, but don't want to pay for them...

you make it sound like the government has 5 dollars here and 10 dollars there wasteful spending,,,,,,, it seems to me to be like millions and billions of wasteful spending. When you talk to a financial planner and tell them you just don't have enough money at the end of the month, what do they do? they LOOK at your current spending to decide where your money is going, then find ways to cut back. And the average family can't go out and DEMAND more income, they have to work with what they have. I wasn't attacking anyone,,,,, didn't mention any party lines or anyone at fault, in fact I think ALL the current politicians are at fault.
And I was serious about being willing to have programs I use be cut, I understand it might not be fun but necessary

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Besides there is absolutely no way to idiot proof something, since they are always coming out with better idiots by the day
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post #10 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-25-2011, 11:34 PM
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Re: Americans want too many services, but don't want to pay for them...

I just have to add I have paid into SS since I was working at 13 I bet I can count on one hand the weeks I have missed getting at least 40 hrs since I was 16
I am getting close to 50 and some douche bag is going to bump the retirement age up again and when and if I live to retire those same douche bags or their clones will have depleted all the funds

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