DieselSite Legendary E4OD Review - Page 2 - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 03:18 AM
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DieselSite Legendary E4OD Review

You really tore into the underside - looks spotless! Great job!

Edit: btw didnít see any billet - hard to believe it can hold 600hp/1200lb torque.

At least a billet input? Thatís what I have from dieselsite. All steel planetaries. Etc etc.

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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 03:44 AM Thread Starter
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Re: DieselSite Legendary E4OD Review

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Originally Posted by Mark Kovalsky View Post
Temperature has nothing to do with the bypass. It has nothing that measures temperature. Contrary to what many people seem to believe it does NOT bypass when cold. It has full flow at any temperature.

It is designed to bypass if the cooling circuit gets restricted. The reason for the bypass is that the return from the coolers is used to lubricate the rear half of the transmission. If something happens to the cooler flow there is no lube to the rear of the trans, and spells a quick death for the trans.

If the bypass is in place and the cooling circuit gets restricted it opens and maintains flow to the lube system. That's it's only function, to prevent total destruction of the transmission if something happens to the cooler circuit.

I recommend getting a bypass valve and tube and installing it. It doesn't restrict the flow and it may save your transmission.
You got me, that does make sense, but I was also under the impression that the bypass tube is never fully "closed", thus constantly bypassing some transmission fluid, and not sending it through the cooling system.

In all reality though, it didn't have one before, and seemed to do just fine?

I'll talk with Dan about it and see what his explanation for removing the bypass is.

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Originally Posted by ​ DieselDC View Post
You really tore into the underside - looks spotless! Great job!

Edit: btw didn’t see any billet - hard to believe it can hold 600hp/1200lb torque.

At least a billet input? That’s what I have from dieselsite. All steel planetaries. Etc etc.

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Yeah the underside was a mess! I got it ALL over me! I put on some old clothes and some safety glasses, and went to town! The neon green long sleeve shirt i was wearing was totally BLACK when i was done! You couldn't tell it was green before!

And no, no billet, just all steel innards. He said right at the 550-600hp mark is where the billet input starts to break, and the front drum after that. But don't forget, its not strictly just about horsepower numbers, he mentioned if I'm doing 20psi boosted launches, (which the truck will do) I'll break the stock one right now, its all about how you drive it.


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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 11:36 AM
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Re: DieselSite Legendary E4OD Review

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Originally Posted by Lt.Dan View Post
You got me, that does make sense, but I was also under the impression that the bypass tube is never fully "closed", thus constantly bypassing some transmission fluid, and not sending it through the cooling system.
When the cooler circuit is not restricted from something going wrong 100% of the flow goes to the coolers. It does not bypass until the restriction gets high enough to force the bypass to open.

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Originally Posted by Lt.Dan View Post
In all reality though, it didn't have one before, and seemed to do just fine?
If nothing ever goes wrong with the cooler circuit the bypass will never open and you'll never need it.

But what happens if you're going down the highway and run something over. It's just high enough to hit a cooler line and bend it. That blocks the flow to the trans cooler. If you have a bypass it will open and the trans will run hotter. If you have enough load it may even overheat and flash the OD OFF light. Now you have a warning that something is wrong and you need to investigate.

If you don't have a bypass and this happens your first indication that something is wrong is when the transmission self destructs because it ran with no lube when the cooler line was damaged.

You may never need the bypass, but if you do need it and don't have it the cost is a new transmission.


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Originally Posted by Lt.Dan View Post
I'll talk with Dan about it and see what his explanation for removing the bypass is.
If he sticks to the same story that is on Dieselsite's website, ask him to have Bob Riley call me. Bob has my number.

Mark
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ďThe good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.Ē ― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 12:06 PM
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Re: DieselSite Legendary E4OD Review

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Originally Posted by Lt.Dan View Post
He said right at the 550-600hp mark is where the billet input starts to break, and the front drum after that. .

Wow wow now, their billet input will break at 550-600hp??? Thatís what I got!

Yeah they got some tricks other builders donít specify and utilize but it could just be words so who knows. Just reading their transmission builds on their site is impressive.

Also whatís the trickle down effect as far as what you stated: input goes, then drum, then what else ?

I pieced building my own billet transmission out and with just the billet parts, itís $3200. Doesnít include TC and labor. I can omit the output and OD 4 pinion planet b/c it doesnít break (I donít sled pull lol) and it could saved $1300. Then again, what you ordered wouldnít break and can be used to tow some heavy heavy loads.

My current build cost $2200 with all upgraded hard parts. The 2002 actually has all the hard parts already so it was less than $2200. The only thing my transmission had that was the weak point was the drum that wasnít updated - updated one was only $80 (half splined instead of fully splined).

Iíll do the full build once my transmission breaks - which isnít anytime soon - was thinking of upgrading to a new VB (already have one upgraded but missing a few goodies).



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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 12:11 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ? DieselDC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt.Dan View Post
He said right at the 550-600hp mark is where the billet input starts to break, and the front drum after that. .

Wow wow now, their billet input will break at 550-600hp??? Thatís what I got!

Yeah they got some tricks other builders donít specify and utilize but it could just be words so who knows. Just reading their transmission builds on their site is impressive.

Also whatís the trickle down effect as far as what you stated: input goes, then drum, then what else ?

I pieced building my own billet transmission out and with just the billet parts, itís $3200. Doesnít include TC and labor. I can omit the output and OD 4 pinion planet b/c it doesnít break (I donít sled pull lol) and it could saved $1300. Then again, what you ordered wouldnít break and can be used to tow some heavy heavy loads.

My current build cost $2200 with all upgraded hard parts. The 2002 actually has all the hard parts already so it was less than $2200. The only thing my transmission had that was the weak point was the drum that wasnít updated - updated one was only $80 (half splined instead of fully splined).

Iíll do the full build once my transmission breaks - which isnít anytime soon - was thinking of upgrading to a new VB (already have one upgraded but missing a few goodies).



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Whoops! I typed that wrong! 550-600hp is where the stock input shaft breaks, not the billet, I'm not sure when the billet one would break.

As far as trickle down, I'm not sure what is weak after the front drum.


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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 02:09 PM
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Cool Re: DieselSite Legendary E4OD Review

There is a little confusion in discussions of the cooler bypass, especially when we are in an E4OD discussion. The E4OD didn't have a cooler bypass, but did have a rear fitting with a check ball in it. That rear fitting was designed to hold converter charge so you don't have an extended engagement time upon first startup in the morning. When we build an E4OD, we build the pump for full time converter charge, so the converter is full before you can put it in gear. With this modification to the pump, it allows us the use fittings with no check valves for better cooler flow.

In regards to the 4R100 Cooler bypass: The bypass valve has a valve that operates from fluid pressure differentials primarily from fluid viscosity changes. The rear fitting is calibrated to play against the spring in the CBV. By design, even when the transmission is up to temperature, it will always bypass some fluid. It is never a 100% transfer of cooler fluid to the cooler. In fact, the exact flow loss is about 10% by design. Also, the failure rate of these valves is enough for me to never take the risk of using them again.

On to Cooler Bypass Delete kits: If you remove the cooler valve and leave the rear fitting valve in place, you increase restriction in the cooler line and reduce volume flow through the cooler since the spring pressure is now higher without it's designed counter pressure spring (the one in the cooler bypass valve). The proper way to delete the valve is to remove all the parts out of the rear fitting. We build a new fitting to do just that. Further more, since we don't need the "banjo" part of the either fitting, we made the fittings now shorter with only one washer and less leak potential.

Now, on a cool note. Since the case threads are the same in the E4OD and 4R100, you can simply use our new CBV delete kits to convert E4OD cases to 3/8" cooler lines very easily. ------- If you have on of our builds or you will have delayed engagement every morning.

Bob
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 02:34 PM
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Re: DieselSite Legendary E4OD Review

Thanks for that Bob
and thanks for being a PowerStroke Nation Sponsor /Vendor
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 03:25 PM
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Re: DieselSite Legendary E4OD Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by DIESELSITE View Post
There is a little confusion in discussions of the cooler bypass, especially when we are in an E4OD discussion. The E4OD didn't have a cooler bypass, but did have a rear fitting with a check ball in it. That rear fitting was designed to hold converter charge so you don't have an extended engagement time upon first startup in the morning. When we build an E4OD, we build the pump for full time converter charge, so the converter is full before you can put it in gear. With this modification to the pump, it allows us the use fittings with no check valves for better cooler flow.



In regards to the 4R100 Cooler bypass: The bypass valve has a valve that operates from fluid pressure differentials primarily from fluid viscosity changes. The rear fitting is calibrated to play against the spring in the CBV. By design, even when the transmission is up to temperature, it will always bypass some fluid. It is never a 100% transfer of cooler fluid to the cooler. In fact, the exact flow loss is about 10% by design. Also, the failure rate of these valves is enough for me to never take the risk of using them again.



On to Cooler Bypass Delete kits: If you remove the cooler valve and leave the rear fitting valve in place, you increase restriction in the cooler line and reduce volume flow through the cooler since the spring pressure is now higher without it's designed counter pressure spring (the one in the cooler bypass valve). The proper way to delete the valve is to remove all the parts out of the rear fitting. We build a new fitting to do just that. Further more, since we don't need the "banjo" part of the either fitting, we made the fittings now shorter with only one washer and less leak potential.



Now, on a cool note. Since the case threads are the same in the E4OD and 4R100, you can simply use our new CBV delete kits to convert E4OD cases to 3/8" cooler lines very easily. ------- If you have on of our builds or you will have delayed engagement every morning.



Bob


Can you tell us what fails in order after 550-600hp (generally speaking): input, drum, then what else? Thanks


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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 04:09 PM
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Re: DieselSite Legendary E4OD Review

Its not quite as simple as 'X" hp breaks this part. We look at many aspects of what the customer does with the truck. If you are a consistent "overweight" hauler (you know who you are) and have even 450hp, the drum seems to be the weakest link. The E4OD used a fully splined forward drum. The 4R100 was only splined 50%. The 4R100 splines strip easy. Many use the E4OD drum calling it a "fully splined drum", as if its some kind of upgrade. While it's stronger in terms of the splines, it's at least 20 years old by the time you get it in your build. We use brand new fully splined drums in every build. The lube hole passes through the hub of the drum which creates a thinner area of steel. The hub splits in this location. Being new stock, we have far reduced this from happening. If you get a billet drum, this design is the same, but the steel is much stronger. If you had us build one of our Hercules units, this drum hub is considerably thicker and stronger. If you have stock power levels and like to drag or play where shock load occurs, the input is a good idea. But in simple terms, in order of weakness, I have found drum, input, intermediate, output, then planet cages. All that assumes you have clutches that are removed from being any weak link in the equation. If a clutch slips, part breakage falls off of course. My clutches don't slip.

What we do say that gets a little misinterpreted is we build our "standard" build with our standard converter is good for 550 or so, with the statement your towing within your legal GCVW, don't sled pull or drag race on weekends.

Bob
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 04:38 PM
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Re: DieselSite Legendary E4OD Review

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Originally Posted by DIESELSITE View Post
Its not quite as simple as 'X" hp breaks this part. We look at many aspects of what the customer does with the truck. If you are a consistent "overweight" hauler (you know who you are) and have even 450hp, the drum seems to be the weakest link. The E4OD used a fully splined forward drum. The 4R100 was only splined 50%. The 4R100 splines strip easy. Many use the E4OD drum calling it a "fully splined drum", as if its some kind of upgrade. While it's stronger in terms of the splines, it's at least 20 years old by the time you get it in your build. We use brand new fully splined drums in every build. The lube hole passes through the hub of the drum which creates a thinner area of steel. The hub splits in this location. Being new stock, we have far reduced this from happening. If you get a billet drum, this design is the same, but the steel is much stronger. If you had us build one of our Hercules units, this drum hub is considerably thicker and stronger. If you have stock power levels and like to drag or play where shock load occurs, the input is a good idea. But in simple terms, in order of weakness, I have found drum, input, intermediate, output, then planet cages. All that assumes you have clutches that are removed from being any weak link in the equation. If a clutch slips, part breakage falls off of course. My clutches don't slip.



What we do say that gets a little misinterpreted is we build our "standard" build with our standard converter is good for 550 or so, with the statement your towing within your legal GCVW, don't sled pull or drag race on weekends.



Bob


Are all the billet items for the 4r100 made in house or are they from a third party - donít mean to put you on the spot. I assumed all this time they were in-house parts and I rave about your business all the time and some times I get that asked and I too wanted to know.


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