What's the deal with CNG? - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-01-2011, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
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What's the deal with CNG?

Obviously there are a examples on the net and in mags of trucks running CNG/#2 to aid their MPG numbers. I'm wondering what the reality is? Not that I don't trust the things printed in Diesel Power, I just like 2nd opinions...

I just got off the phone with Marc Deluca: http://www.delucafuelproducts.com/

He seemed like a super nice guy. He explained in detail how everything worked together along with the pros/cons. I think he was being honest but of course he's going to seem that way, he's trying to sell a product.

Does anyone have any FIRST-hand experience running CNG? The "I know a guy" stories usually don't hold much water.

Is the reason there don't seem to be too many ford examples out there because of serious issues involved with running CNG or is it a case of no one wants to be a guinea pig?

Marc gave me a number of one of his customers up in New York with a fleet of 6.4 and 6.0 service trucks all running cng, who have reported back great results. I will call later today on that one.


So is this a case of snake oil or is it the real deal?


Thoughts?
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post #2 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-01-2011, 04:02 PM
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Re: What's the deal with CNG?

I'm interested also.

Pat

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post #3 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-01-2011, 04:21 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What's the deal with CNG?

I'm waiting for the customer that Marc referred me to-to call back. In the mean time I found the contact info for the guy who posted ridiculous MPG numbers for DPC 2010 and sent him an email. Hopefully he gets back to me as well.

Up front the kits aren't too expensive nor do they sound hard to install. They feed CNG before the turbo from what I gather, so that doesn't sound too involved.

Excluding the tanks, the price for the kit was roughly $1400(He gave me the exact price but it's on a piece of paper downstairs and I'm too lazy to go and get it). There was also an option for the necessary fittings that ran $150. He sold them separately because I guess when you go and buy a tank they'll sometimes come with all the same fittings and he didn't want a person to buy them twice.

Tanks look to be the spendy part. Looking at used options on ebay, they range from $200 up to $1500 with expiration dates 2 to 6 years out.

This site has CNG prices for the country: http://www.cngprices.com/

Looks like it's $2 and under where I'm going to live. Not too bad.

Even with all of this, is it worth it?

I don't care about any HP/TRQ increases. That can all be handled with my Spartan. Price wise, it's in the same range of a tuner/tunes/intake/exhaust for my 6.4 so that's not a huge deal. It doesn't sound like a bad deal. I've been wrong before though...
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post #4 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-02-2011, 03:08 AM
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Re: What's the deal with CNG?

CNG is like propane in this situation. It is an auxiliary fuel. The diesel blowtorches it into combustion.

When figuring MPG, you have to account for the auxiliary fuel - unless you are getting it for free.

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post #5 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-02-2011, 01:39 PM
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Re: What's the deal with CNG?

The main difference between CNG and LPG is the fact you cant carry enough fuel to make a huge difference. With LP a tank can be filled 80% with CNG your looking at around a 33%. But it does have a higher BTU content per unit than LP so you could make "more power" but have a shorter range.

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post #6 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-02-2011, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What's the deal with CNG?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Whitmer View Post
CNG is like propane in this situation. It is an auxiliary fuel. The diesel blowtorches it into combustion.

When figuring MPG, you have to account for the auxiliary fuel - unless you are getting it for free.

I get that part and no I would not be getting it for free. It looks to be fairly cheap in the area where I'll be moving but not free.

The customer that Marc put me in contact with was claiming that his mileage doubled with CNG. I don't know how accurate that is. I got in touch with him yesterday but he was busy so I said we should talk later.

If the claims are true, it would still be beneficial though(unless I am looking at it wrong).

Here's how I see it. If a fill up of a 38 gallon tank of diesel costs $152($4 per gallon) and a fill up of a 15.1(rounded to 15)gge tank of CNG costs $28.05($1.87 in my area), that only comes out to $180.05 as opposed to $304 if someone was to only run #2 to equal the same distance travelled.

I am math stupid but that looks like a savings of over $100.

Am I looking at this all wrong?

Obviously the numbers are in a "perfect" type scenario but anything even close seems like it would be a benefit.
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post #7 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-02-2011, 02:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What's the deal with CNG?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fordman2121 View Post
The main difference between CNG and LPG is the fact you cant carry enough fuel to make a huge difference. With LP a tank can be filled 80% with CNG your looking at around a 33%. But it does have a higher BTU content per unit than LP so you could make "more power" but have a shorter range.

I am not following you. I know that CNG reqires a larger tank but what is the 33% part all about?

Sorry if that's a dumb question.
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post #8 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-02-2011, 07:09 PM
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Re: What's the deal with CNG?

How are you going to purchase your CNG? I know there are kits that tap into your house meter how does that figure into the equation?

Pat

2003 2500hd ccsb, intake 5" straight pipe, ad2 165, Bosch remans, ride right bags, tinted windows, ppe boost valve, on the way leveling kit 285's, efi live, built trans and batmo wheel
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post #9 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-02-2011, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What's the deal with CNG?

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Originally Posted by silverf250 View Post
How are you going to purchase your CNG? I know there are kits that tap into your house meter how does that figure into the equation?
It's sold locally for $2 and under per gallon. I would ASSume as long as the tank is DOT approved and all the correct fittings were used you could take it to any fill station.

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong though.
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post #10 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-03-2011, 04:08 AM Thread Starter
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Re: What's the deal with CNG?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fordman2121 View Post
The main difference between CNG and LPG is the fact you cant carry enough fuel to make a huge difference. With LP a tank can be filled 80% with CNG your looking at around a 33%. But it does have a higher BTU content per unit than LP so you could make "more power" but have a shorter range.

Ok, so I didn't understand what you were talking about so I copy/pasted your response into an email to Marc and here's what I got back:

"It is certainly true that LP has a higher energy density since it is liquefied. A cng tank will be quite a bit larger than the LP tank to do the same range. But you can still run a high percentage of cng on a diesel and have decent range. With a 10 GGE tank, you should be able to do 200 miles while getting near 50 MPG on diesel.
Marc DeLuca
DeLuca Fuel Products LLC
740-622-7942
www.delucafuelproducts.com"


Is that more or less what you were getting at?
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