Project MPG: goal 30 MPG - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 144 (permalink) Old 03-01-2010, 03:19 AM Thread Starter
PSN Local
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 219
Project MPG: goal 30 MPG

Truck:
Theft recovery Ford Super duty 2001 Ex Cab Short Box 4x4
3.73 Gears
295-75R-16 BFG ATs (started out with)
47RH HTS
93% Torque Convertor
Gear Vendors overdrive
2.01 to 1 Final Drive Ratio
70 MPH 8-9 PSI Boost, 700-800 Deg EGT, 1500 RPMs

Engine:
95 12valve
175hp
Stock head bolts to 150 ft/lbs
60 lb valve springs
Retainers and keepers
18 deg timing
No cam plate
AFC ahead stock star wheel location
5 X .012Ē Injectors 260 Bar
4K GSK
Coolant bypass kit
HX-35 14cm non-gated turbine housing, to 3Ē down pipe
Stock stroker exhaust 3.5Ē
AFE


I am shooting for 30 MPG and currently running around MI in weather in the low teens averaging 17 mpg. I have been driving it for about 3 months now since I finished it. I am attributing the low mpg to the hi boost numbers I am seeing? Truck may be too heavy, too much wind resistance, too big of an injector, or too tight of a turbine housing?

Things I am considering trying, each by itself to monitor changes:

Put some 235-75r-16s on it.... (gained 2 mpg to 18.9)
Change to another tire and rim combo? MT vs AT? More rim less tire?
Change out to a16cm housing and 4 or 5Ē exhaust (hopefully this this coming weekend I will do this)
Go down to a 5 x .010 injector (have them but last resort)
Build an air dam (I hear there are some guys on here that have had good luck)
Lower it (this will be after the turbine housing change)

Looking for some input from the guys that have setup their trucks for MPG.

Here are some pics

Drivetrain stolen



with the 235 85r 16s on it

Motor



Gear Vendors Adapter

Gear Vendors Installed

Crusing RPM

Cruising Boost and EGT with 235s


Any positive input is appreciated....

White 01 Superduty, Ex-Cab SB, 4x4, Built 12V Cummins, HTS Billet 47RH, 8" Stack, 796 HP 1300 ft/lbs #2, 1374 HP 2500+ ft/lb on the gas.
What you don't measure, you can't control. What you can't control-you can't improve.
Red Stroke is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 144 (permalink) Old 03-01-2010, 11:37 PM
MPG Moderator
 
Dave Whitmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,083
Re: Project MPG: goal 30 MPG

Nice looking work so far. I like seeing a guy improve an abused piece of machinery.

Before we get too far, we need to know what you mean by "30 MPG." Is it a "snapshot" taken one time on a suitable piece of road? Is a one tankful average? If all you want is a snapshot drive 30 MPH down a 7% grad with a thirty knot tailwind. There is no shortage of guys that do that, but IMHO they are lying to me (I don't care - I know better by now), they are lying to the board, and worst of all lying to themselves.

This is how I measure it. Maybe you have a better plan.

I use a four tankful (roughly 1,600 miles) average on my daily commute. The commute is 35% urban/suburban (keeping up with traffic), 35% two-lane state roads (60 MPH plus or minus 10 RPM), and 30% Interstate (70 MPH plus or minus 10 RPM). I use my AIC's digital tach for precise speed setting. Averaging four tankfuls lets me average out variations in weather, traffic, and clumsiness in filling the tank. I use the odometer (my speedo is corrected for the tires I use) and the fuel pump and figure MPG the old-fashioned way.

Specifics in the next post.

2000 F-350 SC 4x2 6 speed
3.08 gears Gear Vendor Overdrive
Slammed 4"
Rugged Air Dam
315,000 miles
Dave Whitmer is offline  
post #3 of 144 (permalink) Old 03-02-2010, 12:05 AM
MPG Moderator
 
Dave Whitmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,083
Re: Project MPG: goal 30 MPG

OK. Specifics.

If you measure to an honest standard anything like mine, 30 MPG is going to be a tall order for a 4x4 with an automatic.

Judging by the clean conversion, you seem to be mechanically inclined. If you want 30 MPG, the automatic has got to go. The automatic is costing you at least 2 MPG by itself and forecloses some strong driving techniques.

Don't worry. Before long, the 12 valve and the GV will trash the automatic and you'll have an opportunity to install either a NV5600 or a ZF6-650. both come with SAE bellhousings.

Other than the fact if will cook you automatic the GV was an excellent idea although you final drive is actually 2.91:1 instead of 2.01:1. A GV is a 78% overdrive. There is a GV in my future this summer.

I wouldn't mess with my turbo. If you have enough boost that she doesn't smoke at highway speeds, I'd say stay with what you have. You may need smaller injectors. Your EGT is too high for good economy. You want to keep it below 600 degrees pre-turbo. I run at 500 degrees pre. I barely get any boost but she ain't smokin' yet, so I leave it alone. After the GV I may change my tune about the turbo.

At the moment, my guess is you are leaving 4.5-5 MPG on the table because your truck is as draggy as an Amish barn. You need to clean up that bed. A flat tonneau (hard or soft) will gain you 1.5 MPG. A sloped "fastback" bed fairing will help a lot. My rude, crude apparition improved the truck an additional 1.5 MPG over the flat tonneau.

An air dam helps. Look at Bonneville cars. They fight aero drag in a big way. Many of them have air dams that hang down perpendicular to grade. some people think they look dorky but they work. Mine was good for 0.75 MPG. For sake of practicality my air dam is made of 3/8" rip stop conveyor belt. Pricey and bearcat to fabricate but nearly indestructible. My air dam has hung 1.5" above grade but I'm gonna raise it to 3 inches this year. The rubbing annoys me.

You have to do something about those wheel wells. You may as well be poppin' a 'chute. You don't have to do full skirts, just fill in those big empty spots.

I presume you do the obvious maintenance stuff like airing your tires up to the rated pressure on the sidewall. I have firebombs, so I have to keep them rock-hard. Check your brakes for dragging. Sintered metallic brake pads are developing quite a reputation for edge swelling when a little rusty.

BFG Long Trails have the lowest posted rolling resistance. I don't use 'em myself. The firebombs give good all-around performance. OEM tires are probably the lowest rolling resitance tires commonly available. One parameter of rolling resistance: Quieter tires tend to have lower rolling resistance. Making sound requires energy. You know where that comes from.

Chuck the automatic and clean up your aerodynamics and you'll be in the mid-20s. Then the going gets tough.

2000 F-350 SC 4x2 6 speed
3.08 gears Gear Vendor Overdrive
Slammed 4"
Rugged Air Dam
315,000 miles
Dave Whitmer is offline  
 
post #4 of 144 (permalink) Old 03-02-2010, 01:50 AM
PSN Local
 
SD26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 205
Re: Project MPG: goal 30 MPG

Great info, Dave!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Whitmer View Post
BFG Long Trails have the lowest posted rolling resistance. I don't use 'em myself. The firebombs give good all-around performance
Ok, what are "firebombs"?

Dave
2005 E350 6.0PSD
2003 Excursion Limited 4WD 7.3PSD - Sold
1996 E350SD dually 7.3PSD - Gone!

2002 VW Jetta TDI - stock
2007 Escape Hybrid
1999 Kaw KLR650 - 17/42 gearing
SD26 is offline  
post #5 of 144 (permalink) Old 03-02-2010, 03:01 AM Thread Starter
PSN Local
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 219
Re: Project MPG: goal 30 MPG

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD26 View Post
Great info, Dave!


Ok, what are "firebombs"?
Firestone tires.

Thanks for the post Dave let me absorb all you said for a bit.

What info you calc the GV ratio from?

According to the GV chart my 47rh with 3.73 gear ratio has a double overdrive final drive ratio of 2.01

http://www.gearvendors.com/ddrive.html

White 01 Superduty, Ex-Cab SB, 4x4, Built 12V Cummins, HTS Billet 47RH, 8" Stack, 796 HP 1300 ft/lbs #2, 1374 HP 2500+ ft/lb on the gas.
What you don't measure, you can't control. What you can't control-you can't improve.
Red Stroke is offline  
post #6 of 144 (permalink) Old 03-02-2010, 10:29 PM
PSN Veteran
 
secondarychaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Grass Valley, CA
Posts: 2,448
Re: Project MPG: goal 30 MPG

why will the GV eat the Auto trans? not enough trans pump volume at the engine speed?

Dan
96 Powerstroke: 6637, downpipe to dump exhaust, 140v IDM and a shift kit.

84 Honda Sabre V65 1100: pipes, jet kit and new tires. Faster than I think I'll ever need.
secondarychaos is offline  
post #7 of 144 (permalink) Old 03-02-2010, 10:46 PM
nobody likes a quitter
 
imcummin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Delaware
Posts: 447
Re: Project MPG: goal 30 MPG

I'll be watching this but I live by another motto. As I'm sure Redstroke knows from his other fummins, it's not about miles per gallon but SMILES PER GALLON.
imcummin is offline  
post #8 of 144 (permalink) Old 03-02-2010, 11:41 PM
MPG Moderator
 
Dave Whitmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,083
Re: Project MPG: goal 30 MPG

If smiles per gallon were paramount a Z06 Corvette would be a much easier path to take.

Don't sweat the ratio. I'm calculating from the back of the transmission.

The big question for right now is: "What do you mean by 30 MPG?" A snapshot? A long term average? A WAG?

2000 F-350 SC 4x2 6 speed
3.08 gears Gear Vendor Overdrive
Slammed 4"
Rugged Air Dam
315,000 miles
Dave Whitmer is offline  
post #9 of 144 (permalink) Old 03-03-2010, 02:51 AM Thread Starter
PSN Local
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 219
Re: Project MPG: goal 30 MPG

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Whitmer View Post
If smiles per gallon were paramount a Z06 Corvette would be a much easier path to take.

Don't sweat the ratio. I'm calculating from the back of the transmission.

The big question for right now is: "What do you mean by 30 MPG?" A snapshot? A long term average? A WAG?
Well for now the goal is get to where you are 27 in the summer and 24 in the winter. I drive around 17 miles to work one way everyday about 4 miles to get to the x way then 11 @ 70 mph then .5 mile off to work. I think anything in the 25 range is sufficient and possible on a tank average. The 30 mpg is kind of a goal that if I could hit a tank avg a couple times on longer trips I would consider the project a sucess. My hope is with finding the right turbine housing and injector combo as well as taking your advise on aerodynamics (lowering, air dam, and bed cover) I can get in your 24-27 range. Then to gain the last mpgs to 30 use drugs. The hydrogen thing seems to be a hoax for a diesel anyways, so water/meth, CNG, or propane would need to be experimented with. Anyways that is what I invision, I am going to do all I can with fuel then cheat the rest of the way.

Hope that clarifies my goal.

Thanks

Adam

White 01 Superduty, Ex-Cab SB, 4x4, Built 12V Cummins, HTS Billet 47RH, 8" Stack, 796 HP 1300 ft/lbs #2, 1374 HP 2500+ ft/lb on the gas.
What you don't measure, you can't control. What you can't control-you can't improve.
Red Stroke is offline  
post #10 of 144 (permalink) Old 03-04-2010, 02:29 AM
MPG Moderator
 
Dave Whitmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,083
Re: Project MPG: goal 30 MPG

OK. Now I see. The goal of 25-27 in summer and 22-24 in winter is quite realistic.

Some things that are really right about your truck:
The GV overdrive: Good gearing on demand.
Right sized tires: OEM-size tires are optimum for MPG. Bigger diameter gets worse mileage because of the higher rotational moment of inertia and rolling resistance. Smaller tires make the engine rev up too much. The boys at the factory arenít complete fools. Ask me how I know this. Buying and trying a lot of tires, thatís how. Maybe a good idea is a set of winter tires and a set of summer tirees. Gnarly lugs for Michigan snow. Road pattern tires for warmer weather. My OEM-type firebombs have been a good all-around compromise.

Stuff I would recommend:

A stick shift is a solid 2 MPG there for the taking. I have always been amazed how guys who will take on the complex problem of engine swaps are intimidated by an auto-to-manual transmission swap.

I think you are over-injected. Try driving to hold 600 degrees. If you canít do it (give yourself a couple weeks to get the knack) you are over-injected. I routinely run 500 EGT, 2-3 psi boost, and 1700 RPM @ 70 MPH. EGT is a function of fuel burn. Less fuel burn (better MPG) means lower EGT. I would not mess with the turbo til you get EGTs down.

Given you have a 4x4, I donít think a air dam is in order. I lowered my 4x2 4 inches in the front and 6 inches in the rear and my air dam is on the ragged edge of being too big. I donít think a 4x4 can be lowered without fab work that would make Jesse James (the bike builder) flinch. On a 4x4 it would look like the mainsail on Old Ironsides, and add more frontal area than the reduction in coefficient of drag it will make. Maybe a belly pan (another thread is going on this subject) might be a better idea for a 4x4.

Some sort of bed cover is in order if you want to get to the mid-20s on a regular basis. For me a hard tonneau added 1.5 MPG and my lewd, crude fastback added another 1.5. Hopefully, you can make something nicer than I did.

Compared to a Dodge or Chevy, the Ford is definitely heavier. There is a price to be paid for that sturdy construction and it is weight. But fuel is cheaper than repairs to cheesy trucks, IMO.

I would not mess with auxiliary fuel (CNG, propane) until I got the No. 2 where you want it. I donít know about MI, but here on the frozen steppes of central Indiana, propane is more expensive than No.2 on a $/MMBTU basis. Before doing propane or CNG, take a long hard look at how much advance you are running. Propane (once blowtorched into ignition) has a very fast flame front and has been known to put windows in crankcases.

Something very cheap to do is adjust the nut behind the steering wheel (the driver). Read Beating the EPA - The Whys and How to Hypermile - CleanMPG Forums
This guy is the guru of high MPG drivers. He does things that only the truly insane would do and his site has a load of politics I donít care for, but he has the goods. He has been verified as squeezing over 100 MPG out of a first-generation Honda Insight and 47 MPG out of a gas Ranger pickup on public roads, and does it on a routine basis. Most of the link is written from the standpoint of a hybrid, but read it and find the stuff you can (will) do and use it and discard the rest. The driver matters a lot. In Michigan I would not recommend driving real slow. People there might shoot you. Here in Indiana theyíd just throw a chair at you.

For me, my testing season is mid-May to mid-September. No doubt later for you, but that gives you time to make your mods and practice any new driving techniques you can do before you try a real test.

Send me a PM with an e-mail address and Iíll send some .jpgs of my fastback bed fairing.

2000 F-350 SC 4x2 6 speed
3.08 gears Gear Vendor Overdrive
Slammed 4"
Rugged Air Dam
315,000 miles
Dave Whitmer is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome