Saw a Hydrogen kit on a truck last night. Now I have questions... - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-17-2008, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
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Saw a Hydrogen kit on a truck last night. Now I have questions...

Last night me and my crew were at the local Moto-X track and a guy had an old mini Ram pick up truck w/ a Hydrogen system on it. Wasn't much to it just a cylinder filled w/ water w/ some ss electrodes in it, some wires to the battery, and a solenoid hooked up to the ignition. It was pulling 4 amps he told me. He gains 30% fuel economy but this was a very small vehicle w/ probably a 70hp I4 motor so the 10 hp or so he gains off of the Hydrogen could be a significant part of his fuel economy picture. He told me that if he was really soft on the go pedal he could tell that the Hydrogen cell was keeping up but if he got on it at all he instantly used up all the hydrogen and then he was running on all gas again.

My questions are, how big of a system would one need to reliably generate say 30-40 hp? Enough to launch an unloaded F250 softly. Is that even enough to help us?

Is Hydrogen similiar to Propane when it's in the cylinder? Advanced timing and all that or will it not burn until the fuel ignites it?

Anyone doing it?

Thanks for your input!

I'm officially...Stroke-less.
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post #2 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-18-2008, 05:40 AM
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Re: Saw a Hydrogen kit on a truck last night. Now I have questions...

Interesting Suns, I'd like to know more.

Dave

'08 F250 6.4/Torqshift Spartan 310EL, Flo-Pro 4", White_monster air intake, RCD 4-link, RS9000's 584/1330
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post #3 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-18-2008, 01:19 PM
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Re: Saw a Hydrogen kit on a truck last night. Now I have questions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post

Is Hydrogen similiar to Propane when it's in the cylinder? Advanced timing and all that or will it not burn until the fuel ignites it?
Wish I had exact specs but I don't, I just recall reading through all this stuff this spring, but H and LPG burn darn near the same. Burns (flash) much quicker than diesel so timing needs changed.

As for how much to 'launch an F-250'? Well, I wouldn't get that excited. If you're talking about getting a pressure cylinder with H, like LPG, then you're good.
If you're talking about making an on board, HHO producing set-up, think "I have an 8' bed, so I might have enough space..."
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post #4 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-18-2008, 06:43 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Saw a Hydrogen kit on a truck last night. Now I have questions...

What if we just had a little boost though? I use to have my Pane running real light (at full boost it added 42 rwhp) and it consistently improved my mpg. If H2 can be made on board removing the cost of Pane from the equation a little boost could go a long ways.

This guy's cylinder of water was about as big as a roll of paper towels and he claimed 10 hp gain. How large would we need for a 35 hp gain?

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post #5 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-18-2008, 11:52 PM
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Re: Saw a Hydrogen kit on a truck last night. Now I have questions...

I would imagine 3 times the size to make it worth it.I am interested in this but I am not going to be the guinea pig.


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post #6 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-19-2008, 12:44 AM
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Talking Re: Saw a Hydrogen kit on a truck last night. Now I have questions...

We,ll hell son, I,m game. Honestly though I would try it, but you would proble have to run pane tunes so as not to explode the motor. How much preasure are we talking in the cylinder ?

Dan

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post #7 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-19-2008, 01:49 PM
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Re: Saw a Hydrogen kit on a truck last night. Now I have questions...

Suns,
Do not take this the wrong way, but I'm getting tired of saying the same things over and over again (becasue I'm mad at myself that I don't have time to follow up with this project and contribute some useful, actual data!!)

Every cell is different and unique. You might very well be able to build a cell that's small yet produces fuel to make a noticeable difference. But here's some food for thought:
From what I've read and experimented with myself, it takes a rather large cell to produce enough fuel to even make a difference on a small 5 hp B&S engine. And you can't even run that same 5 hp B&S on straight HHO at idle. Even that small motor consumes way too much volume. Only way to do it would be to take a large, thick skinned 'balloon' and use it to store up HHO gas from your generator, then you could actually start and run that 5hp B&S for several seconds. Then you need time to generate enough HHO to do that again. So your LPG tank, even though turn 'low' still has a pretty good flow coming out of it, much more than a small cell like you described is capable of producing.
You could probably run a 5hp B&S at idle with a unit the size of several 5 gallon buckets, with an optimum design, but I'm not sure. That's one project I wanted to complete, to run a small elect. generator on HHO, but for it to even idle we're talking about a large cell...

Now think of what you want to do with a motor HOW many times larger?

Quote:
This guy's cylinder of water was about as big as a roll of paper towels and he claimed 10 hp gain. How large would we need for a 35 hp gain?
10hp on a very small ci motor is way different than 35 hp on a BIG ci motor, as far as volume of fuel required to produce said gains.
It plumb takes A LOT of HHO to make a difference.
But with some careful engineering and LOTS and LOTS of experimenting, I bet you could build a HHO generator that would fill a normal bed tool box, that would produce enough gas to make a 1 or 2 mpg difference at best (which would be cool in my book!!). Someday when I get caught up and have some extra time, I'll get back on the project. For now I just keep tripping over the cell I have in my shop, reminding me what I'm missing...
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post #8 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-19-2008, 10:07 PM
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Re: Saw a Hydrogen kit on a truck last night. Now I have questions...

Been reading very skeptically about the HHO generator plans they are selling.
Supposedly there is a big rig operator running a "6 pack" generator that improves his MPG by 26&#37; average.
http://water4gas.com/trucks.htm#mozTocId669505

I might just build one to run on my 1.8L miata gas burner to see how much better i can get over the 24mpg i currently get. ( I drive it like I am running from my Ex-wife! )

2001 F250 XLT 4x4 auto
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post #9 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-20-2008, 05:53 AM
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Re: Saw a Hydrogen kit on a truck last night. Now I have questions...

Now that I think about it a 5 gallon container would be a great mock up... I do have some stainless. I think I might be able to do something that could work but I don't have time...

99.5 F250 2wd 6Speed: DP Tuner, Straight Pipe, DIY Tymar, 203 Thermostat. Spec Focus Hauler!!

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post #10 of 67 (permalink) Old 07-20-2008, 12:37 PM
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Re: Saw a Hydrogen kit on a truck last night. Now I have questions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toybreaker View Post
Been reading very skeptically about the HHO generator plans they are selling.
Supposedly there is a big rig operator running a "6 pack" generator that improves his MPG by 26% average.
Yeah, those plans are more to make money off of, as far as I can tell.
I've had communications with a trucker that says he sees a good improvement from a certain system, but it's for sure NOT the one you linked to. That water4gas I will call TOTAL BS on, from what I have seen first hand. Maybe a car with the proper electronics might see a difference, but a huge diesel motor that comsumes SO much CFM even at idle will never feel those 6 little jars. Period.
The guy I'm talking about has the system in (2) 4' underbody boxes and claims a savings of $1200 a month or so in fuel for his OTR truck...
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