5R110W problem... And I bet Mark could help. - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-27-2018, 02:51 AM Thread Starter
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5R110W problem... And I bet Mark could help.

06 6.0 f550, service body and constantly loaded heavy.
This will actually be my 3rd post in about a week and a half, all unrelated and the first two resolved. (Broken differential ring gear bolts, then a seriously over thought turbo boost problem).
Last night heading home from the last job of the day, reasonably flat road here in Kona (45 mph zone, low grades) I heard a noise like a rock hitting the bed (anyone with dual rears knows that one) only smaller. Then had a sense of unease about my trans that I cannot really explain, perhaps a late shift or slight slip? Nothing I can actually put my finger on, but I am usually one with my machine, if you know what I mean.
Heard the noise a second time and pulled off the road. I saw a lot of gravel in the treads of the steering tires and convinced myself that this was the culprit. But it seemed like the trans was making an odd noise that I can only equate to power steering noise.
I checked the dipstick when I got home and all seemed fine.
Rolled out this morning and at my first shift 1-2 it felt like it did not engage. This was on a slight downgrade, but my spidey senses were tingling, so I got off of the road and played with the shifter.
Severely slow engagement from park/nuetral to drive or reverse. Checked dipstick again and it looked low so I added 2 qts spring and then it seemed to shift correctly. I can see no signs of external leakage. Played with it a bit and the slow engagement happened again. Drove until it tried to shift into second and did not like the engagement so I shifted down to first and limped home to do some pressure testing.
No current dtc's, but I have had an intermittent p0741 tc clutch lockup code that I was hoping to wait to work on until after I get back from vacation at the end of next month.
My line pressures are goofy. Initial testing at idle was
P,N 50 psi with regular spikes to 120
R. 110, spiking to 180
D. 200
3 and 2, 70
1, 160

Throttled up I got:
R. 210
D. 250 with a squeal
3. 180
2. 150
1. 260

I have been waiting for a friend to show up who has better diagnostic equipment than I do in order to check the electric side of things (I am primarily a heavy equipment mechanic) so I have not pulled the pan yet to look. I did drop a small sample of the oil and it is darker than I would like.
My pressure in park right now seems low and spiking fairly regularly (20 to 150 in park at idle)
Right now my thinking is oil contamination or stuck PC-A solenoid, but the pressure spikes have me considering cavitation. Either way I am ready to pull the trigger on ordering a new trans and TC from Ford unless someone can talk me out of it.
I know that might seem like overkill, but I fly out of the country on Friday for a month and that means when I get back I will be about 2 months behind.
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-27-2018, 02:54 AM Thread Starter
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Auto correct got me again, that was "2 qts SP"
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-27-2018, 03:17 AM Thread Starter
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I have actually been waiting for the friend with the good scanner for about 7 hours now, but he runs his own garage so I just assume that he wasn't able to break free yet. And nobody has replied in the 3 minutes since I posted this. (Damned mainlanders)
Thought I would add that I started it up and disconnected the trans wiring harness a few hours ago just for the hell of it and in park had rock steady line pressure at 200 psi (honestly might have been 300, I did not write it down. But if anyone wants me to recheck that, I will)
I have rebuilt and repaired quite a few transmissions and know that I can do this one. But, my business moved far and happily away from any passenger vehicle work about 8 years ago. So I know very little about the solenoid body on this trans vs the old valve body.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-27-2018, 03:23 AM Thread Starter
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Just a touch more info (and before anyone asks):
According to my service notebook, I have been negligent in my trans services, I replaced the toilet paper filter 4000 miles ago, but my last trans service was about 65000 miles ago. (Unless I just forgot to log it, but I think that is accurate)
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-27-2018, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
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Decided not to wait on the friend with the diagnostics. Drained oil and dropped the pan, dark oil and a reasonable amount of metal (the camera on this tablet isn't great so I am not sure how well it comes through.) More than I would expect to see in 65,000 miles. All of it is too fine to pick up or run through your fingers except the four pieces in the second picture. They look possibly like worked over sprag bearing. I don't see anything that looks like friction material.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-27-2018, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
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Doesn't come through in the picture, but there is a dusting of the same metal paste on solenoids E and D. Mostly D. That might help pinpoint the source when I pull it out and tear it down.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-27-2018, 08:56 PM
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Re: 5R110W problem... And I bet Mark could help.

The dusting is probably making the solenoids stick. New fluid and new filters might fix this.

But it takes time for the filtering to clean the fluid. The internal filter isn't fine enough to do it. The external filter is, but it only sees 10% of the flow to the coolers. And when the trans is colder than 165F the flow to the coolers is cut by 90%.

You can replace the internal filter with a 2009 5R110W filter. That also requires a 2009 pan. This filter is finer than the external filter and will do a MUCH better job of keeping the fluid clean.

Mark
Former Ford Automatic Transmission Engineer

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-27-2018, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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Hey, thanks for replying, Mark. I have read through a lot of your posts and I have to admit that I am kind of a fan.
Is the filter finer on the 09? And then pan deeper?
And.... questions, questions.
What about the squeal in drive at stall? The pieces that look like sprag bearing?
I haven't been able to find a table that explains what solenoid does what and when. But at this point; that is mostly curiosity.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-28-2018, 02:28 AM
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Re: 5R110W problem... And I bet Mark could help.

The '09 filter is MUCH finer. The pan is slightly larger to accommodate the larger filter.

I don't know what caused the squeal. I also don't recognize the pieces. I know how the trans works, but I'm not an expert on all of the hardware inside.

Mark
Former Ford Automatic Transmission Engineer

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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