Borg Warner 1356 failure - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 02:06 PM Thread Starter
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Borg Warner 1356 failure

So I made an earlier post about the E4od popping out of gear while on vacation in Death Valley, about 60miles from a paved road. I thought it might be the E4od transmission, but really wanted to diagnose it before pulling things apart. Fortunately for me, forum member transfixer, pointed me to the transfer gear case for a closer look.

https://www.powerstrokenation.com/for...eleration.html

Through some testing, more advice on what to look for from forum member 79jasper (thanks for the worn fok pic), watching a couple BW1356 rebuild videos on youtube, I came up with an explanation for why the grinding noise/syptoms. I pulled the t-case and got it apart on the bench, and I'll be dammed if the failure wasn't textbook.

Textbook with an additional root cause. My t-case has a small hole in it, near the selector arm. Being a magnesium case (weight savings?) and mag being extremely reactive with salt, me being a Bonneville Salt Flats racer and having used my van to tow out for races, it would appear that some salt got packed up onto the t-case, I missed it during my post race cleaning, it etched and ate a hole in the case! That cause the oil to get out (there was only 6oz left when I drained it 4 days ago), which in turn allowed the plastic wear pads to overheat and melt, fall off the range fork, allow the range slider to 'float' so much that it tried to slip into low, engage the planetary gear set (the sound that I mistook for popping out of gear) and rolled the teeth over.

The third pic shows the range fork's plastic wear pads laying in the bottom of the sump
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 02:19 PM
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Re: Borg Warner 1356 failure

Glad you found it ! since you're going to need a case half now, you're best option might be find a good used one, and then crack it open to check the condition of the fork before you install it. Nothing to those things really, very easy to work on.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Borg Warner 1356 failure

With the plastic wear pads missing from the range fork, the increased clearance allows the the range engagement sleeve, that puts the t-case in low range, isn't held in precise position any longer. It's now allowed to float back and forth on the shaft, trying to 'float' into partial engagement. For some reason on this t-case, deceleration puts some pressure on the engagement sleeve. You can see from the pics below that not only are the plastic inserts missing (i'm holding them in pic #2), but the die cast aluminum fork has been worn away by the spinning engagement sleeve (arrow, pics #1 and #3).
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
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engagement sleeve teeth rolled over

I limped this rig home more than 400 miles, over some 4500ft passes, trying to not let it grind. I'm a little surprised the teeth didn't roll over so bad that I could get it into low range at all (while diagnosing the problem at home)

pics of the rolled over teeth, below
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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oil pump arm

While doing my internet research, it seems a common failure on this t-case is the oil pump. The pump has an anti-rotation arm that relies on the case in bump inside the case. Over time, the steel arm wears away the magnesium bump, the oil pump body now spins, ripping away the plastic pick up tube, ending lubrication and as they say "It's all over but the cryin' "

My case bump is worn about 2/3rds the way through
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 02:46 PM
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Re: oil pump arm

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Originally Posted by TomsBeast View Post
While doing my internet research, it seems a common failure on this t-case is the oil pump. The pump has an anti-rotation arm that relies on the case in bump inside the case. Over time, the steel arm wears away the magnesium bump, the oil pump body now spins, ripping away the plastic pick up tube, ending lubrication and as they say "It's all over but the cryin' "

My case bump is worn about 2/3rds the way through
Yes, that happens with other transfer cases as well, Sonnax industries has a fix for that on the BW4411 case, and on some NP cases, I don't remember it being that common an issue back when we used to work on a lot of those, if you're creative you should be able to figure out a way to put a steel shim on the side of the case it contacts, maybe hold it in with a small screw or rivet ?

If I remember right the slight angle of the teeth on the engagement hub is what allows it to push back out of engagement on decal. Normally when we worked on those we replaced the fork and the hub, that and a seal kit and it was back on the road. The ones that were electric shift the motors would go bad from time to time.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Borg Warner 1356 failure

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Originally Posted by transfixer View Post
Glad you found it ! since you're going to need a case half now, you're best option might be find a good used one, and then crack it open to check the condition of the fork before you install it. Nothing to those things really, very easy to work on.
Thanks!

I know you say there's nothing to them, but I've been humbled by 'gear containing boxes of voodoo and black magic' before. I'll tell you the story of my first attempt to repair a VW transaxle that was popping out of reverse, sometime

I may try to repair this one, put a JB Weld patch on the hole (I'll take a closer look but might be non-load bearing area). Then weld a small rod onto the oil pump arm, like I've seen on another forum, to fix the worn case bump issue.

Thanks a ton for the help!
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2018, 10:10 AM Thread Starter
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oil pump arm re-design

I came up with a fix for the oil pump arm trying to beat a groove into the case.

I added a 1-1/2" long piece of 1/2" diameter steel tubing onto the end of the arm, where it was hammering a groove into the case. Funny that this is a common failure on these t-cases, but Borg Warner nor anyone else for that matter, offers an updated arm.

I coped the end of the arm so the tube fit nicely, then broke out the oxy-acetelyne torch and brazed it with silicon-bronze rod.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2018, 05:21 PM
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Re: Borg Warner 1356 failure

Many cases have similar problems. A bushing would have saved many. Lol

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

1979 chevy c30 dually, sm465, 373's? Converted to 6.2 diesel, pump turned up and advanced a hair.(wrecked)
1994 ford F350 dually 4X4: 7.3 powerstroke, 5 speed. 6637, straight pipe into dual stacks. Cooper discoverer at/3's.
2010 Jetta TDI 40 or so mpg :flippa:
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-14-2018, 03:46 PM Thread Starter
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Used Pick-n-pull gearcase

I decided to look around for a used t-case, rather than fix this one up. But I want to know what's inside, particularly since pulling one of these things apart isn't rocket surgery, eh, brain science... uh, you get what I'm saying.

Disclaimer: I've been junkyard and swapmeet scrounging for 40yrs. I hate, I mean HATE crawling under junkyard carcasses rolling in the oily dirt or this time of year, often mud. Topside parts, no problem. Trim, seats, but geasey transmissions that might actually work, is not my thing. I've done more than my fair share of it over the years, and have grown to dislike it. But at the same time, I'm trying to recover from this deal inexpensively... hahahaha, Sportsmobile 4x4 van and inexpensive Now there's two words that look conspicuously out of place in the same sentence!

I figure out what vehicles the BW1356 came in, know they came with in manual and electric (don't want that) then flanged and splined outputs (don't want splined either) 4 possible combinations and I need 1 specific. Greaaaat. I do a little internet pick-n-pull stock searching, gather my tools, two changes of clothes and shoes, and head out. Not very optimistic, this could be a total bust ending in frustration.

I had better pick up a lottery ticket because the first Bronco, at the closest yard to home, not only had the t-case I was looking for (manual shift, flanged output shaft), but someone had already removed it from the truck, taking the transmission for themselves, but leaving the t-case on a piece of clean dry carpet, completely in tact w/linkage. The only thing missing was to find it resting on a silver platter, sitting on a hundred dollar bill!

All I did was a quick function check, drain a little fluid and smell it, pink and new smelling, it was all good. I loaded it onto one of their makeshift wheel barrels and headed for the gate. I hardly got dirty, outta there in 20minutes.

Every wrecking yard trip should be so successful!

But wait, there's more, it get's better: I get it on the bench, pull it apart, and this thing is nice inside! It's got the updated planetary w/bronze thrust washer, the later updated model 4wd fork, good plastic inserts on the range fork that look new. The leading edge of the teeth on the range engagement sleeve teeth look almost perfect. In fact, the entire thing looks like a reman unit with good parts, the bearings all spin very smooth. A $160 score!

I ordered a seal kit, and put the t-case back together yesterday using Three Bond sealant. God willin' an' the creek don't rise, I'll install it today.
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