Any Trans guys out there? - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-10-2014, 08:43 PM Thread Starter
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Any Trans guys out there?

I have a E40D automatic 5 speed transmission out of an 96 F250 powerstroke in my Bronco. Works great except for this one little thing, where when shifting from 3rd to 4th in any rpm higher than about 2100 it will slam into 4th gear hard. If I just don't accelerate really hard it will shift into 4th smoothly.

Also when it shifts smoothly from 3rd to 4th the rpms only go down by like 100 at the most, where as any other gear shift will range from 300 to 500 rpm change. I'll have to double check this, but I think when I accel real hard and get the hard shift, the rpms drop down a lot more.

I have been trying to find some reading on how transmissions work and as far as I can tell it seems that the solenoid that shifts from 3rd to 4th might be bad and slipping and ramming in real hard, but I don't really know. This would make sense as to why it shifts smoother when not acceling hard, since the rpms don't drop much the solenoid could slam in real hard and it would be less noticeable.

Any thoughts anyone?
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-11-2014, 05:39 AM
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Re: Any Trans guys out there?

Post this in the Transmission section, there's a former Ford Transmission Engineer there that knows his stuff, Mark K.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-11-2014, 05:16 PM
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Re: Any Trans guys out there?

There is no such thing as a 5 speed E4OD. Ford didn't have a five speed automatic until 2003 with the 6.0L, and I'm sure you don't have one of those.

The low RPM drop that you are seeing and thinking is a gear shift is really the torque converter locking. There is a lot more information about how this works at http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-p...-converter.htm

The solenoid doesn't cause slamming. Forget about that. It could be a sticky accumulator, or it could be an error in the programming since I'm betting you don't have a completely stock engine/transmission/truck/computer here.

Mark
Former Ford Automatic Transmission Engineer

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-12-2014, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Any Trans guys out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Kovalsky View Post
There is no such thing as a 5 speed E4OD. Ford didn't have a five speed automatic until 2003 with the 6.0L, and I'm sure you don't have one of those.

The low RPM drop that you are seeing and thinking is a gear shift is really the torque converter locking. There is a lot more information about how this works at http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-p...-converter.htm

The solenoid doesn't cause slamming. Forget about that. It could be a sticky accumulator, or it could be an error in the programming since I'm betting you don't have a completely stock engine/transmission/truck/computer here.
Interesting... I looked it up and it is in fact a 4 speed. I also tested the shifting multiple times on my to and from work. There are def 4 points where the trans seems to shift and the rpms drop. So you're saying the one that slams is actually when the fluid in the torque converter hits the pump in the same direction making the stator useless, which then locks up the converter. So is this bad that is locks up so hard? If i am accelerating harder than 2300 rpms it feels like I just ran over a curb at full speed when it locks.

Also side note... this engine and trans worked perfectly fine when they were in the truck I took them out of, but the truck sat in the garage for a year and then it took another year for me to put the engine in my bronco, so the engine was out of the truck for about 10 months. Since putting the engine/trans in I have been getting poor fuel mileage and way less power than when it was in the F250. Could the torque converter have gone bad while the engine sat around inactive and be contributing to the truck's symptoms now?
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-12-2014, 02:30 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Any Trans guys out there?

Also the accumulator you're talking about... where is that located? Is this something I can remove and repair?

I had the pcm reflashed for 96 standards, since it was out of a 95 truck. But everything else is stock from the truck I took it out of.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-13-2014, 02:31 AM
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Re: Any Trans guys out there?

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Originally Posted by DieselBronco View Post
So you're saying the one that slams is actually when the fluid in the torque converter hits the pump in the same direction making the stator useless, which then locks up the converter.
No, that's not even close.

The PCM determines it wants the converter locked, so it sends a signal to the torque converter clutch control solenoid. That solenoid actuates a valve the changes the hydraulics in the converter which applies a mechanical clutch to lock the input and outputs of the converter.

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Originally Posted by DieselBronco View Post
So is this bad that is locks up so hard? If i am accelerating harder than 2300 rpms it feels like I just ran over a curb at full speed when it locks.
It can break parts.

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Originally Posted by DieselBronco View Post
Could the torque converter have gone bad while the engine sat around inactive and be contributing to the truck's symptoms now?
Very unlikely. But something is wrong, I don't think it is the torque converter.

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Originally Posted by DieselBronco View Post
Also the accumulator you're talking about... where is that located? Is this something I can remove and repair?
It is inside the transmission pan in the accumulator body. I can remove and repair it, I don't know your skill level.

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Originally Posted by DieselBronco View Post
I had the pcm reflashed for 96 standards, since it was out of a 95 truck. But everything else is stock from the truck I took it out of.
Maybe that's the cause.

Mark
Former Ford Automatic Transmission Engineer

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-19-2014, 05:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Any Trans guys out there?

The torque converter lock up was happening even before I got the pcm flashed. Had the truck on the road for a few months then decided to get the pcm flashed so my obdII port would work.

I'm thinking about getting this kit and rebuilding the valve body

TransGo E4OD/4R100: 4R100-HD2 Tugger

Just throwing this out there, don't know what it is, but the truck takes forever to start moving when I hit the accelerator. The rpms go up right away, but the truck takes a few seconds to start moving. After I get over about 15 mph then the truck takes off and I have power. Then when I'm driving at pretty much any speed, higher speeds are more noticeable, if I let off the gas the truck jolts a little bit and seems to almost have something resisting it ability to coast and then when I hit the accelerator again there is another little jolt and almost like something is winding up and then catching. I don't know if that is normal for automatics. It's almost like if I had the bake pads set so that they were always rubbing on the wheels, but I know they are not. This is also a recent development. I have only had the truck on the road since late july, pcm flashed in september and this just started happening in the past few weeks or so.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-02-2015, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Any Trans guys out there?

**update on this**

I finally got a chance to take apart the trans pan and check the accum body. I purchased this TransGo E4OD/4R100: 4R100-HD2 Tugger valve body kit and installed it on a second accum body that I had from the original bronco trans. After I installed the new valve body I had almost no reverse. I did some googling afterwards and ppl online say that this kit has a delay into reverse, but I had a delay and then had to rev the engine to well over 2000rpm to get it to even move and once it did it shot trans fluid out of the overflow port every time I backed up. BUT the slamming of the torque converter was completely gone and the truck shifted like gangbusters.

I called their tech support and the guy basically flipped out on me, because I only installed the modifications to the valve body and that I would have to remove the entire trans to put something in the pump or the trans would burn up. The video on their website did not have anything on removing the entire trans so I don't know. I ended up putting the original accum body back in after cleaning it thoroughly and making sure all the plunger things in each accum slid freely. After putting the old accum body back in the slamming of the torque converter was back but much much less harsh than before. It's still a little rough but doesn't slam like did before.

Also after the first accum swap I put all new trans fluid in, because there was a decent amount of metal dust in there. I only drove it around for a week before putting the original accum body back in and when I opened up the trans again there was almost more metal dust in the fluid than the first time. So somewhere something is grinding and I'll probs find out in the near future when that part explodes and causes problems.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-02-2015, 10:51 PM
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Re: Any Trans guys out there?

When my torque converter took a sh**, my pan was full of metal. Hell, everything was full of metal. Bad
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-03-2015, 12:55 AM
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Re: Any Trans guys out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselBronco View Post
but I had a delay and then had to rev the engine to well over 2000rpm to get it to even move
That will destroy a transmission in a very short time.

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Originally Posted by DieselBronco View Post
and once it did it shot trans fluid out of the overflow port every time I backed up.
Transmissions don't have overflow ports. They do have a vent.

Mark
Former Ford Automatic Transmission Engineer

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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