5r110 Confusing Problem - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-11-2014, 07:41 AM Thread Starter
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Exclamation 5r110 Confusing Problem

Hi all - I'm in need of some insight concerning my 5r110, and I apologize in advance because this is probably going to be long.

A couple months ago, I rebuilt my 5r110 for my F250 6.0 using the ATSG manual, and followed it step by step. Here is the parts that were used:
- Alto Red Eagle clutches
- Suncoast pistons and steels
- TransGo upgraded snap ring
- Billet triple disk torque converter
- Remanufactured pump
- All new OEM solenoids
- New OEM TSS
- New OEM internal and external filters
- Fresh Mercon SP fluid
Everything else was cleaned, inspected, polished and put back in. The assembly went very smoothly.

With that said, I'm having an issue with the torque converter not locking up and/or not hitting overdrive. I only drove the truck in my neighborhood for the first 10 miles or so but once on the freeway, I noticed that the RPM seemed a bit higher than normal (doing 65mph), staying at ~2100rpm while driving on flat. After maintaining 65mph for about 10 minutes, the CEL came on and the tow/haul light started flashing shortly after. I hooked up my scanner and two codes that are present are P0741 and P0744, both TCC codes.

Here is what I've done in attempt to resolve the issue:
- Took it into Ford and had a PCM reflash
- Dropped the pan, removed the internal wiring harness, inspected the harness, tested harness resistance to TCC solenoid, tested TCC solenoid, made sure all solenoids were properly seated, tested TCC solenoid from the PCM (to ensure external wiring harness did not have a short or break), and double checked that none of the pins on the connecter were bent

In addition, every gear shifts very smoothly without any issue whatsoever (a little too smooth for my liking) and shift lag from P to R and R to D is nearly zero. I recently purchased and installed an Edge Evolution CTS for its monitoring capabilities and have been keeping a close eye on the trans temperature, which has not exceeded 175 and usually stays around 150-160 driving around town but for some reason it's not able to read my Gear & TCL, which I find weird.

Also, in your guys' opinion, do you feel that it would be alright to tow with the trans being unlocked? I have a camping trip planned, which is coming up in a couple weeks, and I have to tow my Jeep on a trailer. It's a fairly flat haul with exception of the last 30 miles or so, where I have to tow up some pretty steep grade.

Thank you for reading and I hope I supplied enough information to give you a good idea of what's going on. Please let me know your thoughts and opinions!
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-11-2014, 12:45 PM
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Re: 5r110 Confusing Problem

Did the pump come fully assembled? Only thing i can think of is the TCC valve/spring clip disloged itself. And no, i would not tow without converter lockup. Trans will get hot quick IMO

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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-11-2014, 05:42 PM
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Re: 5r110 Confusing Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleHosbach1228 View Post
- Took it into Ford and had a PCM reflash
Why? I don't understand what this would do for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleHosbach1228 View Post
- Dropped the pan, removed the internal wiring harness, inspected the harness, tested harness resistance to TCC solenoid, tested TCC solenoid, made sure all solenoids were properly seated, tested TCC solenoid from the PCM (to ensure external wiring harness did not have a short or break), and double checked that none of the pins on the connecter were bent
Did you put +12v across the solenoid to see if you could feel or hear the solenoid actuating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleHosbach1228 View Post
Also, in your opinion, do you feel that it would be alright to tow with the trans being unlocked? I have a camping trip planned, which is coming up in a couple weeks, and I have to tow my Jeep on a trailer. It's a fairly flat haul with exception of the last 30 miles or so, where I have to tow up some pretty steep grade.
It might get pretty hot. On the other hand the trans has a lot of cooling, so it might be fine. It's going to suck even more fuel without the converter being locked.

Mark
Former Ford Automatic Transmission Engineer

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-11-2014, 09:07 PM
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Re: 5r110 Confusing Problem

The P0744 is telling you the TCC solenoid is shorted to power. The P0741 is telling you the TCC didnt lock up when it was commanded to.

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-11-2014, 10:30 PM
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Re: 5r110 Confusing Problem

BOTH THE 0741 AND P0744 ARE SET BECAUSE THE CONVERTER CLUTCH IS NOT APPLING WHEN COMMANDED.
WAS THE TEFLON SEALING RING IN PLACE ON THE STATOR SUPPORT? IF NOT YOU WILL HAVE PRESSURE LOSS. COULD B E A VALVE STUCK IN THE PUMP OR A PROBLEM WITH THE SOLENOID, LIKE MARK SAID YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO FEEL OR HEAR IT.
IN ADDITION, THERE COULD BE A PROBLEM WITH THE CONVERTER TOO.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-11-2014, 11:38 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 5r110 Confusing Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewd11 View Post
Did the pump come fully assembled? Only thing i can think of is the TCC valve/spring clip disloged itself. And no, i would not tow without converter lockup. Trans will get hot quick IMO
Yes, the pump came fully assembled and was installed right out of the box.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-11-2014, 11:43 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 5r110 Confusing Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Kovalsky View Post
Why? I don't understand what this would do for you.

Did you put +12v across the solenoid to see if you could feel or hear the solenoid actuating?


It might get pretty hot. On the other hand the trans has a lot of cooling, so it might be fine. It's going to suck even more fuel without the converter being locked.
We took it in for the PCM reflash simply to obtain the latest update, not really in regards to fixing the transmission.

Yes, 12v was applied to the solenoid and it actually squirted out fluid that was still in it. Once I put it back into the valve body, we grounded the solenoid at the PCM and ensured that it was functioning down at the transmission as well.

I have cleared the CEL and it seems that the CEL and tow/haul light do not kick on unless I drive at 60mph or above.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-11-2014, 11:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 5r110 Confusing Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Kovalsky View Post
Why? I don't understand what this would do for you.

Did you put +12v across the solenoid to see if you could feel or hear the solenoid actuating?


It might get pretty hot. On the other hand the trans has a lot of cooling, so it might be fine. It's going to suck even more fuel without the converter being locked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewd11 View Post
The P0744 is telling you the TCC solenoid is shorted to power. The P0741 is telling you the TCC didnt lock up when it was commanded to.
Sorry, accidentally typed the wrong code...
Codes are P0741 and P1744
Description of P1744: TCC slippage detected during engagement.
Mechanical or Hydraulic concern.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-11-2014, 11:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 5r110 Confusing Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by fixperfect View Post
BOTH THE 0741 AND P0744 ARE SET BECAUSE THE CONVERTER CLUTCH IS NOT APPLING WHEN COMMANDED.
WAS THE TEFLON SEALING RING IN PLACE ON THE STATOR SUPPORT? IF NOT YOU WILL HAVE PRESSURE LOSS. COULD B E A VALVE STUCK IN THE PUMP OR A PROBLEM WITH THE SOLENOID, LIKE MARK SAID YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO FEEL OR HEAR IT.
IN ADDITION, THERE COULD BE A PROBLEM WITH THE CONVERTER TOO.
Is there an easy way to do a pressure test?
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-12-2014, 12:53 AM
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Re: 5r110 Confusing Problem

There is no easy nor hard way to do a pressure test on the lockup circuit.

With the info you have now provided my guess is that the teflon seals on the input shaft were damaged installing the converter. It's really easy to do that.

The right way to install those seals is to pack the land with assembly grease (Vasoline works really well for this) then press the seal into the groove. The grease will hold it down where the converter sliding on won't cut the seal. As soon as ATF hits the grease it dissolves and the seal springs up and starts working.

Mark
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