Stop me from putting a 6R140 behind a Cummins 6.7 - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 11:43 PM Thread Starter
me2
PSN Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,408
Stop me from putting a 6R140 behind a Cummins 6.7

So its time for me to order a transmission for my Cummins 6.7 swap. Its getting an HE451VE turbo (from an ISX) and EFI Live tuning. I'm shooting for 550-600 HP and 1000-1100 ftlbs at the flywheel.

You think it would be an easy thing to do.

I was all set on the ZF6 except there are a couple issues with it.

1) I'm right on the edge of the power capability of a double disk organic clutch. But Valair has one that should work.

2) DD clutches are known to be a bit noisy. And I'll have regular gear rollover noise too. One of the guys running a DD organic clutch is saying the noise is getting to him.

3) I have to cut the floor pan and/or bend it up because my truck came with an auto and ZF6sd are taller than 5R110s and the floor pans for each are different.

4) The OD gear ratio of 0.72 sucks.

Its too fast for towing. With 3.73s and 20 inch tires I'm at only 1650 RPM at 60 MPH and 2300 RPM in direct.

Its too slow for efficient cruising. I'll be over 1800 RPM at 70 MPH.

5) I need an adapter plate to go between the trans and the engine. No biggie as I'll make it myself, but its still work.

I started looking at automatic transmission options and the 68RFE caught my eye. I think the 68FRE has the best ratios. 4-5-6 are 1:00, 0.82 and 0.63:1.

At 70 MPH in 6th, I'd be spinning about 1600 RPM, at least 200 RPM slower than with the ZF6. Perfect.

I'd be at 1900 RPM towing in 5th, about 400 RPM higher and dropping down to 4th gear puts me at 2300 RPM and the gear down from that at 50 MPH is 2600 RPM. Perfect.

Another nice thing is that the 68RFE on the 2010s is totally controlled by the Cummins ECM. So wiring it up isn't a problem.

The problem is the 68RFE is that the UD/OD clutches are weak. Actually everything in that transmission is weak, but there appears to be very little you can do with the UD/OD clutches.

So weak in fact that I got a quote for a $4400 custom 68rfe built transmission and the builder said "It's good for up to 550hp however we do not recommend you tow at that level with the 68"

I've looked at the Allison. Its not a strong transmission.

I really don't want a manual transmission for the reasons mentioned above. The 68FRE is junk. I don't want an Allison. So that leaves me with... the 6R140.

It has a stand alone transmission control module that can be reflashed by itself.

Its the only stock transmission that is standing up to any kind of power additions. The 5R110 was good that way too.

The torque converter seems to be good.

It seems like my only logical choice !

New truck.
08 F350 King Ranch
Long box CC 4x4
6.4 5R110
Soon to get a Cummins 6.7 transplant.

Old truck.
Red '99 2WD F250 CC SWB
3rd gen 325/610 Cummins, ZF6
Custom air ride suspension
me2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 12:21 AM
Former Ford Trans Engr.
 
Mark Kovalsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SE Florida
Posts: 3,028
Re: Stop me from putting a 6R140 behind a Cummins 6.7

How would you get it to shift?

Mark
Former Ford Automatic Transmission Engineer

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson
Mark Kovalsky is offline  
post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 01:06 AM Thread Starter
me2
PSN Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,408
Re: Stop me from putting a 6R140 behind a Cummins 6.7

Tie the 6R140 TCM into the electronics on the 08SD and the 6.7CR. Probably have to make the CAN busses talk to each other.

The main thing that I am worried about is defueling the 6.7 during the shifts. I'm hoping that happens via the CAN bus, but not sure. The Cummins CAN bus is J1939.

Those 68 RFEs at terrible transmissions. Dodge truck owners swap them out for 47/48REs and G56s. The latter of which has its own problems.

I wonder how many people would use a 6R140 if it could be made to run great behind a Cummins 6.7 ?

New truck.
08 F350 King Ranch
Long box CC 4x4
6.4 5R110
Soon to get a Cummins 6.7 transplant.

Old truck.
Red '99 2WD F250 CC SWB
3rd gen 325/610 Cummins, ZF6
Custom air ride suspension
me2 is offline  
 
post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 01:07 AM Thread Starter
me2
PSN Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,408
Re: Stop me from putting a 6R140 behind a Cummins 6.7

The 6R140 looks to be a pretty beefy transmission. Ford lists it at 325 pounds, 350 pounds wet. The 68RFE is about 265 pounds. That has to mean something.

New truck.
08 F350 King Ranch
Long box CC 4x4
6.4 5R110
Soon to get a Cummins 6.7 transplant.

Old truck.
Red '99 2WD F250 CC SWB
3rd gen 325/610 Cummins, ZF6
Custom air ride suspension
me2 is offline  
post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 01:32 AM
Big Plans
 
jhaddox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Columbiana County, OH/ WVU
Posts: 784
Send a message via AIM to jhaddox
Re: Stop me from putting a 6R140 behind a Cummins 6.7

are there any companies out there selling built ones yet?

Why not go with the 4r100 with a pcs or just a built 48re

08 ECSB 6.4
MPD, GOGO, No Limit, Rudys, ARP, PMF, Innovative, AFE, Recon, Fuel, Nitto, Bilstein


Fueled by...Fuel, lots of it
jhaddox is offline  
post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 02:27 AM Thread Starter
me2
PSN Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,408
Re: Stop me from putting a 6R140 behind a Cummins 6.7

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhaddox View Post
are there any companies out there selling built ones yet?
There are parts. Not sure they need to be built to handle 5-600 HP and 1000-1100 ftlbs at the flywheel.

Quote:
Why not go with the 4r100 with a pcs
a) lots of people saying the PCS never quite work right. b) towing ratios in the 4R100 with 3.73s and 20 inch tires are bad. 0.71:1 locked up at 60 MPH = 1600 RPM. Too slow. 1:1 locked up is about 2450 RPM. Too fast.

Quote:
or just a built 48re
Expensive. Ratios aren't great.

The 68FRE gives you 0.63, 0.82 and 1.0. The 6R140 gives you 0.67, 0.86 and 1.15. Those 0.82 and 0.86 gears would be pretty nice for towing.

The Allison gives you 0.61, 0.71 and 1.0. Same as a 48RE or ZF6 with an additional overdrive. Id rather have the upper gears be closer together, especially like they are in the 68FRE, but in the 6R140 as well.

New truck.
08 F350 King Ranch
Long box CC 4x4
6.4 5R110
Soon to get a Cummins 6.7 transplant.

Old truck.
Red '99 2WD F250 CC SWB
3rd gen 325/610 Cummins, ZF6
Custom air ride suspension
me2 is offline  
post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-25-2012, 05:47 PM Thread Starter
me2
PSN Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,408
Re: Stop me from putting a 6R140 behind a Cummins 6.7

I bought a 6R140. Now we'll see if I can make it work.

New truck.
08 F350 King Ranch
Long box CC 4x4
6.4 5R110
Soon to get a Cummins 6.7 transplant.

Old truck.
Red '99 2WD F250 CC SWB
3rd gen 325/610 Cummins, ZF6
Custom air ride suspension
me2 is offline  
post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-09-2012, 05:45 PM
PSN Local
 
IHPowerstroke7.3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 264
Re: Stop me from putting a 6R140 behind a Cummins 6.7

Subscribed. I want to put a 5r110 behind a 5.9 common rail. Have heard PCS works but not well. 08-10 6.4 trucks use a stand alone TCM. Thinking you're on to something here.
IHPowerstroke7.3 is offline  
post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-19-2012, 11:12 AM
Fixing Broken Stuff
 
toolmangary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South Lyon Mi
Posts: 2,078
Re: Stop me from putting a 6R140 behind a Cummins 6.7

Quote:
Originally Posted by me2 View Post
I bought a 6R140. Now we'll see if I can make it work.
Let us know how this works out for you.

2015 Challenger HellCat Redline Red 8sp
1997 F350 4X4 CCLB PSD
2004 Jetta TDI
1999.5 Jetta TDI 11mm pump S7 PP764's 3bar MAP
1986 F350 CC Dually 6.9 ATS turbo lowered
1984 Mark VII 2.4 BMW Turbo Diesel
1970 Roadrunner 383 4sp
1970 Cuda 426 4sp Dana 60
1956 F100
toolmangary is offline  
post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-19-2012, 01:42 PM
Poh
Respect my awesomeness
 
Poh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Mighiganistan, People's Republic of America
Posts: 262
Re: Stop me from putting a 6R140 behind a Cummins 6.7

isn't the 6r140 used in an F650/700 behind a 6.7L cummins ...... or is that a different transmission......

the stand alone TCM has me thinking it is the 6spd auto in the 650/700.... ofcourse I am am high on vicoden right now and talking (typing) out my ass .........

96 F350 Crew Cab Dually. 7.3L stroke. CXracing intercooler, 3" Down pipe, Tru cool max transmission cooler, EBV delete.

just to live does not mean you're alive
Poh is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome