New member with Tech Questions after Turbo rebuild and new Injector O-rings install... - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-03-2018, 01:58 PM Thread Starter
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New member with Tech Questions after Turbo rebuild and new Injector O-rings install...

Hi PowerStrokeNation,
I've purchased 1997 Ford F-250HD 7.3L Powerstroke with 119,500 miles. It was a Caterpillar fleet truck auctioned and extremely neglected service maintenance over the years. I've replaced all eight Injector O-rings with newer designed Mahle O-rings. Factory O-ring top section had metal compression ring, cushion O-ring and typical O-ring. Middle section had cushion O-ring and typical O-ring with one typical O-ring on bottom section. New Mahle O-rings had metal compression ring, cushion O-ring and typical O-ring as normal on top section. Middle section had only one larger typical shape O-ring to replace factory cushion with typical factory O-ring setup and new bottom single typical O-ring.

I've replaced all eight Glow Plugs with Ford OEM ZD-11 Glow Plugs. Before replacing new Glow Plugs I did purge all eight cylinders to remove as much motor oil that drained in during injector pulls. I've replaced all four factory High Pressure Oil Rail Plugs with Riffraff Plugs, all four Factory Fuel Rail Banjo Bolts with Riffraff Banjo Bolts, and added Stainless Steel HPX crossover Tube between oil rails.

Replaced Sensors with Ford OEM: HPOP IPR sensor, ICP sensor, EBP Sensor, EBP Stainless Tube, and EBP manifold fitting. Company invoice showed Cam Senor replaced with OEM less than 20,000 miles ago. Replaced O-Rings between non-EBP Pedestal, engine, as well as Turbo to Pedestal.

I've rebuilt Turbo that was leaking huge amounts of burn motor oil into all 8 cylinders and exhaust manifold. The only original Turbo part reused was the turbo intake housing. New Non-EBP Turbo Pedestal, New Center Turbo Mount containing bearings and turbo axle, replaced 1.15 factory turbine housing with 1.0 turbine housing, new bearing and seal kit with brass 360 degree bearing, New balanced Turbine Wheel and Shaft, and new Riffraff WW2 Compressor Wheel.

Replaced OEM air filter housing with Spectrum Cold Air Intake, added Mishimoto Catch Can, and CX Racing Intercooler.
Fuel Bowl had algae deposits so I added Power Service brand Bio-Kleen to Fuel Tank which I use at work with great results. Also added Power Service brand Diesel Kleen injector cleaner & performance improver as well.

Replace factory exhaust with Diamond Eye 4" Cat Delete from Turbo to rear bumper. I was expecting a lot of oil burning blowing out of the exhaust until all oil residue was clear from cylinders and exhaust. Over twenty miles the bright blue exhaust smoke did lighten by 50%, but continues after 100 miles of driving. Also exhaust pipe dripping a lot of black motor oil when parked after driving.

Replaced Crank case and Hpop oil with RevX oil additive and T5 Rotella 15w-40. As an afterthought I was wondering if the Fuel additives, Oil additive and/or T5 Motor Oil was preventing new injector O-rings from sealing correctly allowing blow by, but at this point I turn to those with more experience...!

Original exhaust pipe had heavy carbon buildup from massive amounts of Turbo oil leaks which was obvious once I disassembled it. Both sides compressor and turbine showed fresh and old burnt oil residue.
I do know oil stays in push rods and probably other small areas but the oil draining from exhaust is extremely dark black. If I had to guess I would assume (no puns reply please lol) cleaner oil color in comparison. Crank case drained for two days, Hpop, and both high pressure oil rails were drained as well. Dip stick continues difficult to read due to clean oil film. So maybe assuming on my part is incorrect..?

Also the exhaust oil burning volume did lower by estimated half since the first start. Take offs are the heaviest, cruising slight amount of smoke with no smoke at times, and deceleration producing a short term puff of blue smoke. Never white or black, always blue smoke. Oddly no smoke during idle ever.

Before maintenance project truck did not smoke, but suffered from cold start injector stiction and low power output throughout throttle range regardless of engine temp. My questions for my new found PSN friends are: After 100 miles is this typical burning bright blue smoke and if so how many miles of driving before this issue clears up to reasonable amount of smoke expected...? Have I missed something during my O-ring injector rebuild or general mechanics required...?

I'm open to every opinion and questions hoping to resolve oil burner issues before DMV SWAT Entry Team crashes through my door...lol.

Much appreciated, thanks!
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-03-2018, 06:36 PM
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Re: New member with Tech Questions after Turbo rebuild and new Injector O-rings install...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel Shrapnel View Post
Hi PowerStrokeNation,
I've purchased 1997 Ford F-250HD 7.3L Powerstroke with 119,500 miles. It was a Caterpillar fleet truck auctioned and extremely neglected service maintenance over the years. I've replaced all eight Injector O-rings with newer designed Mahle O-rings. Factory O-ring top section had metal compression ring, cushion O-ring and typical O-ring. Middle section had cushion O-ring and typical O-ring with one typical O-ring on bottom section. New Mahle O-rings had metal compression ring, cushion O-ring and typical O-ring as normal on top section. Middle section had only one larger typical shape O-ring to replace factory cushion with typical factory O-ring setup and new bottom single typical O-ring.

I've replaced all eight Glow Plugs with Ford OEM ZD-11 Glow Plugs. Before replacing new Glow Plugs I did purge all eight cylinders to remove as much motor oil that drained in during injector pulls. I've replaced all four factory High Pressure Oil Rail Plugs with Riffraff Plugs, all four Factory Fuel Rail Banjo Bolts with Riffraff Banjo Bolts, and added Stainless Steel HPX crossover Tube between oil rails.

Replaced Sensors with Ford OEM: HPOP IPR sensor, ICP sensor, EBP Sensor, EBP Stainless Tube, and EBP manifold fitting. Company invoice showed Cam Senor replaced with OEM less than 20,000 miles ago. Replaced O-Rings between non-EBP Pedestal, engine, as well as Turbo to Pedestal.

I've rebuilt Turbo that was leaking huge amounts of burn motor oil into all 8 cylinders and exhaust manifold. The only original Turbo part reused was the turbo intake housing. New Non-EBP Turbo Pedestal, New Center Turbo Mount containing bearings and turbo axle, replaced 1.15 factory turbine housing with 1.0 turbine housing, new bearing and seal kit with brass 360 degree bearing, New balanced Turbine Wheel and Shaft, and new Riffraff WW2 Compressor Wheel.

Replaced OEM air filter housing with Spectrum Cold Air Intake, added Mishimoto Catch Can, and CX Racing Intercooler.
Fuel Bowl had algae deposits so I added Power Service brand Bio-Kleen to Fuel Tank which I use at work with great results. Also added Power Service brand Diesel Kleen injector cleaner & performance improver as well.

Replace factory exhaust with Diamond Eye 4" Cat Delete from Turbo to rear bumper. I was expecting a lot of oil burning blowing out of the exhaust until all oil residue was clear from cylinders and exhaust. Over twenty miles the bright blue exhaust smoke did lighten by 50%, but continues after 100 miles of driving. Also exhaust pipe dripping a lot of black motor oil when parked after driving.

Replaced Crank case and Hpop oil with RevX oil additive and T5 Rotella 15w-40. As an afterthought I was wondering if the Fuel additives, Oil additive and/or T5 Motor Oil was preventing new injector O-rings from sealing correctly allowing blow by, but at this point I turn to those with more experience...!

Original exhaust pipe had heavy carbon buildup from massive amounts of Turbo oil leaks which was obvious once I disassembled it. Both sides compressor and turbine showed fresh and old burnt oil residue.
I do know oil stays in push rods and probably other small areas but the oil draining from exhaust is extremely dark black. If I had to guess I would assume (no puns reply please lol) cleaner oil color in comparison. Crank case drained for two days, Hpop, and both high pressure oil rails were drained as well. Dip stick continues difficult to read due to clean oil film. So maybe assuming on my part is incorrect..?

Also the exhaust oil burning volume did lower by estimated half since the first start. Take offs are the heaviest, cruising slight amount of smoke with no smoke at times, and deceleration producing a short term puff of blue smoke. Never white or black, always blue smoke. Oddly no smoke during idle ever.

Before maintenance project truck did not smoke, but suffered from cold start injector stiction and low power output throughout throttle range regardless of engine temp. My questions for my new found PSN friends are: After 100 miles is this typical burning bright blue smoke and if so how many miles of driving before this issue clears up to reasonable amount of smoke expected...? Have I missed something during my O-ring injector rebuild or general mechanics required...?

I'm open to every opinion and questions hoping to resolve oil burner issues before DMV SWAT Entry Team crashes through my door...lol.

Much appreciated, thanks!
A few things stick out at me.
1. Never heard of mahle injector orings. There's a reason everybody preaches alliant only.
2. Ditch the spectra filter for a 6637 style.
3. On many diesels, you could run it for 30 seconds after a oil change and itll be dark as night again.
4. Hpop oil and crankcase oil are the exact same thing. (Stop watching powerstrokehelp videos)

Pull your fuel filter. Is it black like the oil?

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1979 chevy c30 dually, sm465, 373's? Converted to 6.2 diesel, pump turned up and advanced a hair.(wrecked)
1994 ford F350 dually 4X4: 7.3 powerstroke, 5 speed. 6637, straight pipe into dual stacks. Cooper discoverer at/3's.
2010 Jetta TDI 40 or so mpg :flippa:
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-04-2018, 02:44 PM
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Re: New member with Tech Questions after Turbo rebuild and new Injector O-rings install...

How well did you clean the injector cups before installing the injectors with new O rings?
Mahle brand O rings should be fine they are good quality

How did the engine run before all of this? Was there blue smoke?

I have been through this with my own truck, the injectors must be sealed 100% or oil/fuel will go right out the tail pipe
How do you feel the turbo rebuild and installation went? The pedestal O rings must be seated properly and the surfaces very clean.

Welcome to PSN!!

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2001 Excursion 7.3, auto, 4x4, 3.73, 6" Suspension lift, 37" Dick Cepeks
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-09-2018, 11:26 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys for the replies. I’m a Product Development Tech for Cat but with no Powerstroke experience. Reason I went with Mahle Injector O-Rings because one of the engineers I work for was on Cat Diesel engine team during mid 90s. Found out Cat patent HEUI injectors international used and Mahle supplied international O-rings for OEM 94 to 98 injectors.

Possible other manufacturers produced O-Rings for HEUI injectors during same production period as well pending on suppliers abilities to fill required amounts.

Can’t say for sure about 99 and up because information wasn’t needed and US emissions required engine design changes.

Turbo rebuild was straight forward without issues and mounting sucked because didn’t remove cab. Used new high temp (color purple) pedestal to engine and turbo to pedestal O-Rings. Double check both pedestal mount areas and no external leaks noticed.

Replying from mobile so trying to remember your post replies for correct answers to determine possible solutions. Injector cups were cleaned from burn motor that drained into cylinders during injector removal. I did use a light film of new motor oil on injectors before I reinstalled them because first one would not seat without requiring a lot of pressure.

So I removed first injector added light film of clean oil and then was able to seat all eight with light hand taps.

Haven’t removed new fuel filter to check fuel color. Hopefully I have time Tuesday after work.

First drive before replacing injector O-rings and everything else no smoke was noticed. Engine lacked power and original Turbo was leaking at compression and turbine wheels.

Have a ton of pics I can posts once I return home and figure out how to do so on this talk forum.

Thanks for both replies and hope you guys will return with more suggestions especially after pics.
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-09-2018, 11:47 PM
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Re: New member with Tech Questions after Turbo rebuild and new Injector O-rings install...

Anybody else find it kind of funny that this truck was a Caterpillar "fleet service truck", yet the maintenance [on the fleet truck] was extremely neglected...?

Just sayin'...

Al in SoCal
AFE Intake; Garrett 38R; Turbine Jacket; Banks IC, BanksBrake
Melling LPOP, External Oil Cooler & Filter System
Stealth 4-line Twin HPOP,
Swamps 160/30's, HVHF IDM; DP-Tuner F5
Full R-R Fuel System, Pre-& Post-pump filtration
Mishimoto Rad & Tank; 4" Exhaust, Twin Aussie Stacks
SouthBend D-D Clutch; ZF 6-spd, GearVendors O/U Drive
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-10-2018, 02:08 AM
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Re: New member with Tech Questions after Turbo rebuild and new Injector O-rings install...

Light taps aren't generally enough to properly seat the injectors. You should hit them with a dead blow until the noise changes. It took a decent whack or three to get mine seated.


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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-10-2018, 03:25 AM
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Re: New member with Tech Questions after Turbo rebuild and new Injector O-rings install...

Quote:
Originally Posted by walt_mink View Post
Light taps aren't generally enough to properly seat the injectors. You should hit them with a dead blow until the noise changes. It took a decent whack or three to get mine seated.



Also, not a bad idea to throw a straight-edge across 'em after they're in, to ensure they are all seated the "same". If one (or more) is up a bit... good indication of improper seating.

Al in SoCal
AFE Intake; Garrett 38R; Turbine Jacket; Banks IC, BanksBrake
Melling LPOP, External Oil Cooler & Filter System
Stealth 4-line Twin HPOP,
Swamps 160/30's, HVHF IDM; DP-Tuner F5
Full R-R Fuel System, Pre-& Post-pump filtration
Mishimoto Rad & Tank; 4" Exhaust, Twin Aussie Stacks
SouthBend D-D Clutch; ZF 6-spd, GearVendors O/U Drive
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-12-2018, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
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I’m big guy and my light taps equals average guys full power effort. All eight injectors are seated correctly. Measured every injector height in relation to head valve cover mounting surface with certified calibrated adjustable square before disassembly and after reassembled.

As for commits relating to Caterpillar maintenance I haven’t painted a complete picture originally not necessary for possible solutions. Truck was use to pull Skid Steers from 8000 to 15,000lbs from deep mud trenches. On open test grounds we used Front-end loader, but narrow trenches don’t all large machine access. This particular truck is a great testimony to mid-90s Ford Trucks and a lot cheaper resource compared to large construction equipment maybe use used once a week.

Not feasible to park $250,000 machine for occasional use...!

Rebuilt suspension and replace leaf springs. Shackles were twisted like drill bits, suspension bolts bent with deep worn groves, and turbo blowing oil out of turbine and compressor wheel bearing, but nonetheless continue to drag 8 ton track machines submerged in mud.

As for maintenance we didn’t care about the or waste money maintaining it. It’s a mud truck dragging experimental machines to prototype shop.
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