O-Boy... O-Rings! - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-02-2007, 12:58 AM Thread Starter
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O-Boy... O-Rings! **Pics Added**

Well, using a pressure rig from Kim Lux' instructions, I pressurized the passenger side rail and found it would pump right up to 3,000 psi but bleed off to nothing in about 15 minutes.
I was little bummed out since I was sure that o-rings were the smoking gun from all the discussion of symptoms.
Quit for the night and cleaned up as it was about time to say goodnight and get the kids off to bed.... then it occurred to me that I ought to test the driver's side head before I called it quits.
ZERO pressure could be held in the driver's side rail with my test rig. The rig uses a grease gun as a pumping source for the 15w/40 oil and moves a pretty small volume each stroke. But for comparison, I think it only took about 6-8 pumps to hit 3,000 psi on the other side, pumping as fast as I could I was only able to get the needle to slightly rise off the peg.

Pulled the valve cover today and could see oil gush out from around the base of the injector when I tried to pump up the rail... pretty clearly a bad o-ring on the #2 hole. Pulled all four injectors on that side and found the top cushion o-ring shot, shaved away to the point that the circle was broken and the sealing o-ring was pushed up into its place where broken!
There was NO metal backing ring behind the cushion ring!

Pulled the passenger injectors since they were modified all at the same time and found the same destroyed upper cushion rings on all of them. Again no metal backing ring on any of them! Some how they were able to hold pressure, even in their distorted condition.
Not sure if the metal ring was unknowingly left off or if it was a different design that obviously doesn't work. The injectors had only being in for about a year and a half.... way premature for failure.

Took lots of pics (of the test rig too) and will post when I finish up the o-ring install. I am using Alliant o-rings as they are appearently the OEM manufacturer of the injectors themselves. The kit includes all three parts of the upper o-ring set - Metal backing, square-cut cushion, and upper o-ring - Middle and Lower o-rings and the copper washer.

Sorry for the long post but people had asked for me to keep them posted. I think it is helpful to others too so that if they encounter similar things, they will have a starting place.

Thanks again to those who got me pointed in the right direction to find the bad o-rings!

God bless,

TC

***Dinner time here on the west coast and the chicken is ready to come off the BBQ!!!


97 F350 CC LB 4x4, ZF-5, LUK, Off-Road. Factory Alcoas, Michelin LTX-M/S LT265/75-16, Bilsteins. Homegrown intake, 4" exhaust, LUK clutch, 130cc injectors, 99+ intercooler, homegrown CCV mod, homegrown electric fuel system, still sorting out tuning/chip burns.
2003 Tahoe 27' Travel Trailer, Prodigy brake controller.
1991 5.0 LX - Best 1/4: [email protected]
1989 Taurus SW (To be like Tom S!)
Link to my Intercooler/Fuel System Install page -
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Last edited by TimC63; 09-12-2007 at 05:31 PM. Reason: Update title
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-02-2007, 02:40 AM
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Re: O-Boy... O-Rings!

Tim some pics of those bad O-rings would be usefull too. What O-rings were on there that did not hold up?

Tom

1996 F250 Powerstroke 4X4 AUTO
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-02-2007, 03:06 AM
 
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Re: O-Boy... O-Rings!

Alliant get's the injectors from Cat. So I'm assuming they get the O-rings from them as well.

Where did those injectors come from that didn't have the metal backing ring on them?
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-04-2007, 05:53 AM
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Re: O-Boy... O-Rings!

Must of been some aftermarket orings, I think the name is dipaco or something like that....
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-04-2007, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
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Re: O-Boy... O-Rings!

Tom, I have pics and will figure out how to post soon. I noticed that you were able to put images into your Fuel System post and not just links.

Geoff, there probably isn't any secret who sells 130cc injectors but I think it is only fair for me to talk to the builder and possibly get an explanation or response before throwing a name out there. People sometimes jump to conclusions when little information is given.

BB, I have heard that the builder had used Dipacos at one time and had poor results!

TC

97 F350 CC LB 4x4, ZF-5, LUK, Off-Road. Factory Alcoas, Michelin LTX-M/S LT265/75-16, Bilsteins. Homegrown intake, 4" exhaust, LUK clutch, 130cc injectors, 99+ intercooler, homegrown CCV mod, homegrown electric fuel system, still sorting out tuning/chip burns.
2003 Tahoe 27' Travel Trailer, Prodigy brake controller.
1991 5.0 LX - Best 1/4: [email protected]
1989 Taurus SW (To be like Tom S!)
Link to my Intercooler/Fuel System Install page -
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:05 AM
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Re: O-Boy... O-Rings!

Tim store your photos here on PS nation. The when you have the photo up in the normal resized view right click go to properties and copy the link. Then go to your post in another open window click image and paste in the link. I also think Bean/Cass had some troubles with Dipaco o-rings and switched brands away from them a ways back. At least it was not too ugly really just a pain.



Tom

1996 F250 Powerstroke 4X4 AUTO
DP-Tuner F-6 chip live tuned, BTS Transmission, Garrett 38R Turbo, Swamps Injectors 150cc, electric fuel,
Banks Intercooler, Reflexxions Cowl Hood, 17 degree HPOP, 4" Stainless Magnaflow &
Aeroturbine exhaust, Aeroforce OBD Scan Gauge, Truxedo tonneau cover
Dana 60 Precision Metal Fab RSK and SD Springs
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 02:24 AM
 
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Re: O-Boy... O-Rings!

Tim I agree with what you are saying about getting a response.

I think bean is the only one who really advertizes the 130cc injectors but that doesn't mean anyone else couldn't make them. So rather than assume that's why I asked.

Missing the steel back up ring isn't an o-ring or an o-ring manufactuer's problem. It's more of an install problem. I'd be curious to hear the reasoning why that steel ring wasn't installed. Usually there is always a little divit in the square cut back up ring that goes between the metal backup ring and the main o-ring but unless an o-ring has a lot of miles on them that square cut ring is usually fine other than that. It never seems to really be an issue.

At Seattle Injector we have always used Alliant external o-rings and from what I gather the internals are from Delco or something like that. From what I've heard before I ever started there they used some dipaco internal o-rings and had some problems with them. It was before I ever started so I have no idea if it was the o-rings or the install job but we haven't had any issues with the ones we have now. We do use Dipaco's internal o-rings for the cat and B code injectors and since I've been there never had a problem with them. We also use dipaco nozzles springs due to some problems we had with another manufacturer (I don't know where they came from) and we use Dipaco P&B assemblies as well as Nozzles. Both of which seem to be good quality parts.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 12:57 PM
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Re: O-Boy... O-Rings!

Tim, not sure why there wasnt a metal back up ring on those injs, they are supposed to be there and someone screwed up putting them on. It is not uncommon for the square backup oring to break then let the sealing oring break. There for a good while Dipaco was the only place we could get the orings in bulk from, they seemed to be fine then there for a stretch all of a sudden that ring started breaking on a regular basis. It will usually get cut in two by the metal backer ring. Dipaco has no answers for thier crappy orings that we put on thousands of injs, all we can do is change companies that we got them from. We now get them from Alliant and have no problems. Anyone with orings on thier injs will eventually have a oil pressure problem, not a matter of if its when, sad to say.

Smokin' Hot Hooker- 2002 F350 Dually 4x4 6spd- 5.9 CR-
BDP Drag Truck- 81 C10-5.9CR, BTS 4R, Goes Fast

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 11:26 PM
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Re: O-Boy... O-Rings!

Ryan what was the time frame on the bad rings for Dipaco? I was supposed to have the motorcraft ones on mine that I supplied but who knows. The other camp was the ones that did them.

Tom

1996 F250 Powerstroke 4X4 AUTO
DP-Tuner F-6 chip live tuned, BTS Transmission, Garrett 38R Turbo, Swamps Injectors 150cc, electric fuel,
Banks Intercooler, Reflexxions Cowl Hood, 17 degree HPOP, 4" Stainless Magnaflow &
Aeroturbine exhaust, Aeroforce OBD Scan Gauge, Truxedo tonneau cover
Dana 60 Precision Metal Fab RSK and SD Springs
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 11:47 PM
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Re: O-Boy... O-Rings!

I really dont know, I think they were probly all sub par on that top ring but sometime at the end of last year that got horrindus, I had pulled injs back out that had less then 5k miles on them and the backer ring already be broken.

Smokin' Hot Hooker- 2002 F350 Dually 4x4 6spd- 5.9 CR-
BDP Drag Truck- 81 C10-5.9CR, BTS 4R, Goes Fast

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